The impending OKC Center dilemma: Kanter and Adams

[WiggOuts]

give it a couple years and one of them will want out like all okc players before them. Presti seems fine with this considering he keeps re-creating the same problem over and over. He really is NBA2king the league. At least they have a ton of young talent to develop

And what players are you talking about exactly? Reggie Jackson?

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

[WiggOuts]

give it a couple years and one of them will want out like all okc players before them. Presti seems fine with this considering he keeps re-creating the same problem over and over. He really is NBA2king the league. At least they have a ton of young talent to develop

Yes, and recreating young, talented , Big players in a good problem to have

I do not disagree with this. Option is a beautiful thing. Eventually he should find what works and stick with it...unless he plans on continuing this process forever where hes constantly filling his roster with good young players and trading them off for more good young players once they start to establish themselves...kind of works against building chemistry/continuity. It seems to be working out so far so what do I know

[bbms]

Props to Presti.

Created depth and a strong post presence with the 24th pick of 2011 Draft and a 2017 or 2018 protected first round pick.

Out:
Jackson (2011 late first round pick)
2017 or 2018 first round pick protected.

In:
Kanter
Singler (marksman)
DJ Augustin (solid backup PG)
Novak (marksman).

I red somewhere Kanter was asking for 12 mil/year from Utah and they refused. Woj said that the Thunder is intending to extend Kanter. Thunder was willing to take Brook Lopez (16 mil/y contract for two seasons). 12 mil/y was what the Thunder offered to Jackson and Harden.

I could even still see Kanter's price tag going up and Thunder still pay him up. Keep Adams in his rookie scale deal and wait on his development. By the time he is to be extended, evaluate who is more valuable, Adams or Kanter, and make a decision, or even use the leverage of a expanded salary cap following the new NBA TV deal to keep both of them around.

Then the Thunder discusses McGary.

Thunder is in a very good shape and it's poised to have a great rotation of bigs for a long time.

[MoneyTalks41890]

give it a couple years and one of them will want out like all okc players before them. Presti seems fine with this considering he keeps re-creating the same problem over and over. He really is NBA2king the league. At least they have a ton of young talent to develop

And what players are you talking about exactly? Reggie Jackson?

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

What are you talking about? Harden got traded for financial reasons, RJ wanted to start but was behind a top 6 player in Russ. What trend?

[WiggOuts]

And what players are you talking about exactly? Reggie Jackson?

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

What are you talking about? Harden got traded for financial reasons, RJ wanted to start but was behind a top 6 player in Russ. What trend?

Maybe i should have worded it differently but the trend is obvious. They get players that they won't really be able to retain. This is the same problem that philly is gonna have in a few years with all those high draft picks. There will eventually come a time when u are gonna have to pay these guys and u can't expect everyone to take a huge paycut for the betterment of the team. Mins and role play a part in this equation as well.

[bondom34]

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

What are you talking about? Harden got traded for financial reasons, RJ wanted to start but was behind a top 6 player in Russ. What trend?

Maybe i should have worded it differently but the trend is obvious. They get players that they won't really be able to retain. This is the same problem that philly is gonna have in a few years with all those high draft picks. There will eventually come a time when u are gonna have to pay these guys and u can't expect everyone to take a huge paycut for the betterment of the team. Mins and role play a part in this equation as well.

Ah so the key is they should get less good young players. Gotcha.

[Edrees]

give it a couple years and one of them will want out like all okc players before them. Presti seems fine with this considering he keeps re-creating the same problem over and over. He really is NBA2king the league. At least they have a ton of young talent to develop

And what players are you talking about exactly? Reggie Jackson?

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

Harden wanted to stay, it's just that OKC wasn't willing to pay him the max.

[nikster]

give it a couple years and one of them will want out like all okc players before them. Presti seems fine with this considering he keeps re-creating the same problem over and over. He really is NBA2king the league. At least they have a ton of young talent to develop

And what players are you talking about exactly? Reggie Jackson?

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

The first because they didnt want to offer the max to a 6th man who's offensive skillset completely overlaps with their 2 star players and plays little defense. The second because Jackson wanted a starting role.
And these 2 trends in 7 years is now a trend?
The "problem" seems to be Presti is too good at drafting.
But the thing is, its not just that these players were too talented.Neither of these players were a fit for the team long term. if we see something similar happen again then i might consider it a trend. But their current roster fits beautifully together and they will likely resign Kanter because unlike those other 2 players he A)fills a niche they have been desperately missing (low post scoring) and B) wants to be there

[DrCoach]

give it a couple years and one of them will want out like all okc players before them. Presti seems fine with this considering he keeps re-creating the same problem over and over. He really is NBA2king the league. At least they have a ton of young talent to develop

Yes, and recreating young, talented , Big players in a good problem to have

I do not disagree with this. Option is a beautiful thing. Eventually he should find what works and stick with it...unless he plans on continuing this process forever where hes constantly filling his roster with good young players and trading them off for more good young players once they start to establish themselves...kind of works against building chemistry/continuity. It seems to be working out so far so what do I know

Can never have too many good young players on reasonable contracts. He replaced Perkins and Sefalosha with bigger and more potential 21 yr olds

[sonictecture]

The presence of Durant and Ibaka could allow Kanter and Adams to coexist and still get the required playing time to both help the team and continue their respective developments. I'll be interested to see if the two can play together.

[thunderup_0_35]

And what players are you talking about exactly? Reggie Jackson?

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

The first because they didnt want to offer the max to a 6th man who's offensive skillset completely overlaps with their 2 star players and plays little defense. The second because Jackson wanted a starting role.
And these 2 trends in 7 years is now a trend?
The "problem" seems to be Presti is too good at drafting.
But the thing is, its not just that these players were too talented.Neither of these players were a fit for the team long term. if we see something similar happen again then i might consider it a trend. But their current roster fits beautifully together and they will likely resign Kanter because unlike those other 2 players he A)fills a niche they have been desperately missing (low post scoring) and B) wants to be there

Well put. Thanks for breaking that down for realgm users. I done tried and tried to explain it, some people don't want to believe it, some people don't understand it. I can't put no more energy towards that situation. it's like convincing someone 1 plus 1 equals 2, and then they disagree and utter words on a topic that they clearly don't understand. But again thanks for the well put breakdown, hopefully for the last time.

[WiggOuts]

What are you talking about? Harden got traded for financial reasons, RJ wanted to start but was behind a top 6 player in Russ. What trend?

Maybe i should have worded it differently but the trend is obvious. They get players that they won't really be able to retain. This is the same problem that philly is gonna have in a few years with all those high draft picks. There will eventually come a time when u are gonna have to pay these guys and u can't expect everyone to take a huge paycut for the betterment of the team. Mins and role play a part in this equation as well.

Ah so the key is they should get less good young players. Gotcha.

Never once did i say this was a bad problem to have, but itll be a problem none the less. People are acting like I said this is destined to fail or something. Im a HUGE KD fan and I want the man to win...but I also believe you win with proven vets, not a bunch of young players

[Grolgar]

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

What are you talking about? Harden got traded for financial reasons, RJ wanted to start but was behind a top 6 player in Russ. What trend?

Maybe i should have worded it differently but the trend is obvious. They get players that they won't really be able to retain. This is the same problem that philly is gonna have in a few years with all those high draft picks. There will eventually come a time when u are gonna have to pay these guys and u can't expect everyone to take a huge paycut for the betterment of the team. Mins and role play a part in this equation as well.

The trend is called "drafting well." OKC has had so many players from the draft pan out (KD, Russ, Harden, Ibaka, Jackson, Adams...) that choices had to be made. If the Thunder missed on draft picks more often then this wouldn't be an issue. lol. But, of course, roles/salary/etc will cause young guys to leave if their opportunities are limited. And then they become assets. It's really a great problem to have. OKC just upgraded their bench for Jackson.

The only good player that really has wanted out of OKC since 2008 was Jackson. I think Harden wanted to stay and be paid the max, but he also knew he didn't want to be third option in a backcourt. He's too good for that and I think he was fine with being traded. Don't forget though that that team was really tight, which is why Harden was still willing to stay at all.

[nikster]

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

The first because they didnt want to offer the max to a 6th man who's offensive skillset completely overlaps with their 2 star players and plays little defense. The second because Jackson wanted a starting role.
And these 2 trends in 7 years is now a trend?
The "problem" seems to be Presti is too good at drafting.
But the thing is, its not just that these players were too talented.Neither of these players were a fit for the team long term. if we see something similar happen again then i might consider it a trend. But their current roster fits beautifully together and they will likely resign Kanter because unlike those other 2 players he A)fills a niche they have been desperately missing (low post scoring) and B) wants to be there

Well put. Thanks for breaking that down for realgm users. I done tried and tried to explain it, some people don't want to believe it, some people don't understand it. I can't put no more energy towards that situation. it's like convincing someone 1 plus 1 equals 2, and then they disagree and utter words on a topic that they clearly don't understand. But again thanks for the well put breakdown, hopefully for the last time.

thanks. i wish people would grasp it, but somehow i doubt they will. most people just dont care about having a true understanding

[tmorgan]

Except everyone in the fanbase pretty much agrees with Kanter starting over Adams. We all love Adams, but his offense simply isn't better than Kanter's. Kanter can shoot, get to the line, finish his offensive boards, and can play in the post.

Presti was willing to give Jackson 12 million or Lopez 15 million, If Kanter plays like this for the rest of the season he's getting paid.

Fair enough. I'll stick by my prediction, but at least you provided your reasoning.

[greenandgold]

I think Kanter seems happy in OKC (having a great point guard is a big man's dream). My prediction is that he agrees to sign with OKC for about $14 million a year.

But even if he gets a max offer OKC automatically matches, even if it is just to keep him around as a trade asset. 22 year old center who is balling will always have trade value.

OKC gave up a pupu platter of assets for Kanter as a longterm core piece of the team. Not for a 28 game rental.

[richboy]

My bad, I'll try to use smaller words. Quin is a very good coach. I would try to explain further, but it's hard when trying to use simple words.

Oh he has already dropped from your fantastic to very good. I think we could actually have a conversation when you state why you think he is good or fantastic. Whichever one it is. I've said why I think he has been bad to start the year. Your response has been pretty much 'he is fantastic because I said so'. He has done a great job tanking. If that is where your argument starts and finishes then I will stick with Utah blew a lot of games because I have no clue what Snyder was doing.

Meh, I'm hesitant to waste my time with someone who obviously doesn't watch the team and jumps to conclusions over coaching decisions they see on a stat sheet. You're also one of the sheep(no offense ) who thinks tanking means losing on purpose. Utah is trying to develop players, while at the same time building for the future, or in other words, trying not to let their draft pick fall too far. If they were playing to win every game, then you're right in that Rudy should have been starting and playing more. Instead, Utah has been trying to keep Enes happy long enough to either get decent trade value, or get him signed to a reasonable contract. We ended up having him demand a trade anyway, because he could see the writing on the wall with Rudy being the starter. Obviously Quin makes mistakes at times, but it's not quite so simple as just trying to win every game. Contract situations and the greater good of the team sometimes call for decisions that the casual fan has a hard time understanding, so I guess it's understandable for someone with limited knowledge of the team to get confused.

Meh you should stop your argument there because I have watched a ton of Utah Jazz basketball because I been raving about Gobert for 2 years.

Again this is not about Kanter playing or even starting. Gobert was barely playing the first two months of the year. Trevor Booker was getting 20 minutes a night the first two months of the year. The vast majority of Utah minutes to start the year were with Booker, Kanter, or Favors big man rotation. I'm watching games and even the opposite announcing crew is lost on why Gobert not playing more.

Now perhaps I should give him credit because things have changed. The problem was it was injuries that forced the change. Except for moving Exum into the starting lineup. Like I said coaches get better just like players. I'm not saying he should be fired. I'm saying to start of the year terrible coaching. He didn't do the team any favors to start the year. I don't know what was it that Kanter was so unhappy about in Utah. My issue was if they played Gobert you could have all 3 of them. Instead you throw a 6'7 PF in the mix and I have to question what your doing. As soon as Booker was the third big in the rotation Kanter had no shot at staying or having success in Utah.

Also I think people are way overrating Stephen Adams. I like Adams but some people are talking like he a defensive monster. Right now he better at making people mad at him than anything. He has shown almost no impact on OKC defense or offense so far this year. Was only playing back up center minutes when he was a starter. It is only his second year but he closer to average to below average than anything.

[Amish Mafioso]

Oh he has already dropped from your fantastic to very good. I think we could actually have a conversation when you state why you think he is good or fantastic. Whichever one it is. I've said why I think he has been bad to start the year. Your response has been pretty much 'he is fantastic because I said so'. He has done a great job tanking. If that is where your argument starts and finishes then I will stick with Utah blew a lot of games because I have no clue what Snyder was doing.

Meh, I'm hesitant to waste my time with someone who obviously doesn't watch the team and jumps to conclusions over coaching decisions they see on a stat sheet. You're also one of the sheep(no offense ) who thinks tanking means losing on purpose. Utah is trying to develop players, while at the same time building for the future, or in other words, trying not to let their draft pick fall too far. If they were playing to win every game, then you're right in that Rudy should have been starting and playing more. Instead, Utah has been trying to keep Enes happy long enough to either get decent trade value, or get him signed to a reasonable contract. We ended up having him demand a trade anyway, because he could see the writing on the wall with Rudy being the starter. Obviously Quin makes mistakes at times, but it's not quite so simple as just trying to win every game. Contract situations and the greater good of the team sometimes call for decisions that the casual fan has a hard time understanding, so I guess it's understandable for someone with limited knowledge of the team to get confused.

Meh you should stop your argument there because I have watched a ton of Utah Jazz basketball because I been raving about Gobert for 2 years.

Again this is not about Kanter playing or even starting. Gobert was barely playing the first two months of the year. Trevor Booker was getting 20 minutes a night the first two months of the year. The vast majority of Utah minutes to start the year were with Booker, Kanter, or Favors big man rotation. I'm watching games and even the opposite announcing crew is lost on why Gobert not playing more.

Now perhaps I should give him credit because things have changed. The problem was it was injuries that forced the change. Except for moving Exum into the starting lineup. Like I said coaches get better just like players. I'm not saying he should be fired. I'm saying to start of the year terrible coaching. He didn't do the team any favors to start the year. I don't know what was it that Kanter was so unhappy about in Utah. My issue was if they played Gobert you could have all 3 of them. Instead you throw a 6'7 PF in the mix and I have to question what your doing. As soon as Booker was the third big in the rotation Kanter had no shot at staying or having success in Utah.

Also I think people are way overrating Stephen Adams. I like Adams but some people are talking like he a defensive monster. Right now he better at making people mad at him than anything. He has shown almost no impact on OKC defense or offense so far this year. Was only playing back up center minutes when he was a starter. It is only his second year but he closer to average to below average than anything.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1377742#start_here

[ubernathan]

Adams is not that great, he's just a more athletic, less skilled Zaza Pachulia. People just think he's good because OKC's centers were so bad for so long that he seems good by comparison.

[Kingshadaine]

And what players are you talking about exactly? Reggie Jackson?

mainly Reggie and Harden. Its looking like the beginning of a trend imo

The first because they didnt want to offer the max to a 6th man who's offensive skillset completely overlaps with their 2 star players and plays little defense. The second because Jackson wanted a starting role.
And these 2 trends in 7 years is now a trend?
The "problem" seems to be Presti is too good at drafting.
But the thing is, its not just that these players were too talented.Neither of these players were a fit for the team long term. if we see something similar happen again then i might consider it a trend. But their current roster fits beautifully together and they will likely resign Kanter because unlike those other 2 players he A)fills a niche they have been desperately missing (low post scoring) and B) wants to be there

I don't see how his skillset overlapped Durant and Westbrook, he was the facilitator, we see this in Houston, he can play off the ball and is a good shooter