MCW Not Ranked Among Top-30 NBA Point Guards According To NBA Personnel

[laploutocratie]

PHILADELPHIA (CBS) — When the Sixers traded point guard Michael Carter-Williams to the Milwaukee Bucks, folks in Philadelphia were flabbergasted.

The thought was the Sixers took a step backward by trading MCW, the reigning NBA Rookie Of The Year, for the Los Angeles Lakers’ top-five protected 2015 first-round pick (top-three protected in 2016, 2017, and unprotected in 2018).
However, Carter-Williams was not ranked among the top-30 NBA point guards by ESPN Insider’s Jeff Goodman, according to NBA personnel. In 13 games since joining the Bucks, MCW is averaging 14.5 PPG, 3.5 RPG, 5.5 APG, and 3.2 TOPG in 31.6 minutes per game.

The top-30 point guards were ranked in tiers based on responses from 25 people in the NBA, which included a combination of executives, coaches and players. Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Chris Paul, Kyrie Irving, and Damian Lillard were the top-five, in that order (from best to worst).
Point guards 25-30 were (from best-to-worst): Isiah Thomas, Patrick Beverley, D.J. Augustin, Jarrett Jack, Mo Williams, and Trey Burke.

We asked 25 NBA folks -- a combination of executives, coaches and players -- to rank the point guards in the NBA from 1 to 30.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/ ... guards-nba

If someone has insider, can they post the full top 30 rankings?

[PKABOOICU]

[frosty23]

Trey Burke over MCW is CRAZYYYYYY. Also, I would put him above Augustin, Jack, and Mo-Will. Those 3 are really good back-ups.

[Kevin Johnson]

MCW is not as good as a lot of 2nd string point guards. He's rated higher because of his potential and physical attributes.

But if you're a good playoffs team and you had to choose between MCW and these 2nd string point guards for only THIS playoff run - you'd never choose MCW:

Dennis Shroeder, Mo Williams, Patty Mills, DJ Augustin, Andre Miller, Shaun Livingston, midget Chicago PG, Jeremy Lin, etc, etc.

[TigerInYourTank]

There is a lot of commentary in the article that is mostly blurbs about each player, and some summary info. I cut that out to keep this post legal.

The top tier
1. Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder (732 points, 13 first-place votes)
2. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors (727 points, 9 first-place votes)
3. Chris Paul, Los Angeles Clippers (652 points, 3 first-place votes)
4. Kyrie Irving, Cleveland Cavaliers (630 points)
5. Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers (614 points)
6. John Wall, Washington Wizards (595 points)
7. Mike Conley, Memphis Grizzlies (570 points)
8. Kyle Lowry, Toronto Raptors (550 points)
9. Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs (511 points)
10. Jeff Teague, Atlanta Hawks (499 points)

The middle tier
11. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls (489 points)
12. Goran Dragic, Miami Heat (467 points)
13. Eric Bledsoe, Phoenix Suns (456 points)
14. Ty Lawson, Denver Nuggets (450 points)
15. Rajon Rondo, Dallas Mavericks (436 points)
16. Kemba Walker, Charlotte Hornets (420 points)
17. Ricky Rubio, Minnesota Timberwolves (401 points)
18. Jrue Holiday, New Orleans Pelicans (396 points)
19. Reggie Jackson, Detroit Pistons (374 points)
20. Deron Williams, Brooklyn Nets (356 points)

The bottom tier
21. Brandon Jennings, Detroit Pistons (340 points)
22. George Hill, Indiana Pacers (315 points)
23. Darren Collison, Sacramento Kings (300 points)
24. Brandon Knight, Phoenix Suns (287 points)
25. Isaiah Thomas, Boston Celtics (125 points)
26. Patrick Beverley, Houston Rockets (120 points)
27. D.J. Augustin, Oklahoma City Thunder (92 points)
28. Jarrett Jack, Brooklyn Nets (75 points)
29. Mo Williams, Charlotte Hornets (73 points)
30. Trey Burke, Utah Jazz (32 points)

[TigerInYourTank]

Trey Burke over MCW is CRAZYYYYYY. Also, I would put him above Augustin, Jack, and Mo-Will. Those 3 are really good back-ups.

MCW is definitely better than Burke, and probably better than Mo-Will.

[laploutocratie]

Thanks for the full list, Tiger. I think you can make a case about all the 29 other point guards except Burke. That's ludicrous. Burke is an undersized chucker with some laughable efficiency.

[Scalabrine]

There is a lot of commentary in the article that is mostly blurbs about each player, and some summary info. I cut that out to keep this post legal.

The top tier
1. Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder (732 points, 13 first-place votes)
2. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors (727 points, 9 first-place votes)
3. Chris Paul, Los Angeles Clippers (652 points, 3 first-place votes)
4. Kyrie Irving, Cleveland Cavaliers (630 points)
5. Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers (614 points)
6. John Wall, Washington Wizards (595 points)
7. Mike Conley, Memphis Grizzlies (570 points)
8. Kyle Lowry, Toronto Raptors (550 points)
9. Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs (511 points)
10. Jeff Teague, Atlanta Hawks (499 points)

The middle tier
11. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls (489 points)
12. Goran Dragic, Miami Heat (467 points)
13. Eric Bledsoe, Phoenix Suns (456 points)
14. Ty Lawson, Denver Nuggets (450 points)
15. Rajon Rondo, Dallas Mavericks (436 points)
16. Kemba Walker, Charlotte Hornets (420 points)
17. Ricky Rubio, Minnesota Timberwolves (401 points)
18. Jrue Holiday, New Orleans Pelicans (396 points)
19. Reggie Jackson, Detroit Pistons (374 points)
20. Deron Williams, Brooklyn Nets (356 points)

The bottom tier
21. Brandon Jennings, Detroit Pistons (340 points)
22. George Hill, Indiana Pacers (315 points)
23. Darren Collison, Sacramento Kings (300 points)
24. Brandon Knight, Phoenix Suns (287 points)
25. Isaiah Thomas, Boston Celtics (125 points)
26. Patrick Beverley, Houston Rockets (120 points)
27. D.J. Augustin, Oklahoma City Thunder (92 points)
28. Jarrett Jack, Brooklyn Nets (75 points)
29. Mo Williams, Charlotte Hornets (73 points)
30. Trey Burke, Utah Jazz (32 points)

I think its more like this:
1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Paul

4. Wall
5. Lillard
6. Irving
7. Lowry
8. Teague

9. Parker
10. Bledsoe
11. Dragic
12. Lawson
13. Conley
14. Walker

15. Rose
16. Rubio
17. Holiday

18. Jackson
19. Hill
20. Rondo
21. Collison
22. Knight
23. Thomas
24. MCW

25. D.Williams
26. Jack
27. Augustin
28. M. Williams

29. Beverly
30. Brooks

notes:
- I put spaces in between tiers, the players in each tier I think you could argue one over the other depending on the rest of the roster and team needs.
- Rose, Rubio, Holiday are in their own tier because they are too injured too often to be any higher, but I think they are clearly better than the guys below them when they are healthy.
- Sadly, not willing to put Jennings on this list. He showed flashes for the weeks leading up to his injury but overall he has been a high volume, low efficiency ball hog for most of his career and achilles tears have proven to be deadly to careers. If he can fully recover then yes, but right now...nope.

As for MCW, I think he is definitely a top 30 PG. I think the trade the Bucks made was good, they were able to trade a guy that they were not willing to commit to long term as their point guard for a player of similar age, but locked into a rookie contract, with a bit more potential, and in my opinion, more Kidd-like in his style of play.

[HotelVitale]

Trey Burke over MCW is CRAZYYYYYY. Also, I would put him above Augustin, Jack, and Mo-Will. Those 3 are really good back-ups.

MCW is definitely better than Burke, and probably better than Mo-Will.

Guessing you haven't caught many CHA games lately. Mo Will's been putting up 19/7 since he came there (.535. true shooting, PER over 18), showing poise and vet leadership and really helping them win. Probably their best player at the moment. He's not awesome and doesn't deserve big praise, but he's much improved from his low point a few years ago. Easily a better player at the moment than MCW.

[HotelVitale]

- Sadly, not willing to put Jennings on this list. He showed flashes for the weeks leading up to his injury but overall he has been a high volume, low efficiency ball hog for most of his career.. As for MCW, I think he is definitely a top 30 PG. I think the trade the Bucks made was good, they were able to trade a guy that they were not willing to commit to long term as their point guard for a player of similar age, but locked into a rookie contract, with a bit more potential, and in my opinion, more Kidd-like in his style of play.

Not trying to call you out or defend Jennings, but MCW has been way more of a low efficiency high volume guy throughout his career than Jennings. MCW's percentages are worse than Jennings and his TOs are nearly double BJ's, and Jenings has had a few season of respectable efficiency while MCW's two season have been ruddy awful in that regard.

Also, your justification for MCW being top 30 seems weird. I agree it was a good trade, almost a coup to get three first-round talents for a guy they didn't want to pay this offseason. But that doesn't mean MCW's good now, and this list clearly isn't about potential. I'd say that the current Sixers PGs--Ish Smith and I Canaan--are clearly at least as good as MCW was, and they're barely NBA players. MCW might turn it around but for now he's all potential. (FYI: I live in PHL but just recently moved here, don't have loyalty to the Sixers. I have seen a lot of MCW though.)

[wickedwrister]

As a Sixers fan who has seen a lot of MCW I still believe in him long term. He's currently a below average point guard who probably fits in the 20-30 range. The tools are there for him to be a top 5-15 PG if he can either learn to finish at the rim or hit jumpers with decent efficiency. My guess is the shot may not come around but if anyone can lay out the blueprint for what he should be doing to get there its probably Kidd. If the Bucks were going to let Knight walk, getting MCW was a good move for them in the long run.

[BBgun]

I don't think MCW is a remotely good player despite some seemingly "good" surface level stats...I think most of the PGs listed are better than him. But I still think it's safe to say he'll be in the NBA in 3 years; I honestly don't know if I can say the same for Trey Burke.

[Scalabrine]

- Sadly, not willing to put Jennings on this list. He showed flashes for the weeks leading up to his injury but overall he has been a high volume, low efficiency ball hog for most of his career.. As for MCW, I think he is definitely a top 30 PG. I think the trade the Bucks made was good, they were able to trade a guy that they were not willing to commit to long term as their point guard for a player of similar age, but locked into a rookie contract, with a bit more potential, and in my opinion, more Kidd-like in his style of play.

Not trying to call you out or defend Jennings, but MCW has been way more of a low efficiency high volume guy throughout his career than Jennings. MCW's percentages are worse than Jennings and his TOs are nearly double BJ's, and Jenings has had a few season of respectable efficiency while MCW's two season have been ruddy awful in that regard.

Also, your justification for MCW being top 30 seems weird. I agree it was a good trade, almost a coup to get three first-round talents for a guy they didn't want to pay this offseason. But that doesn't mean MCW's good now, and this list clearly isn't about potential. I'd say that the current Sixers PGs--Ish Smith and I Canaan--are clearly at least as good as MCW was, and they're barely NBA players. MCW might turn it around but for now he's all potential. (FYI: I live in PHL but just recently moved here, don't have loyalty to the Sixers. I have seen a lot of MCW though.)

I didnt really justify putting MCW there. Heres my justification though. Hes an all around talent (other than his jumpshot). He is very big for his position, which makes him easily parable with smaller 2 guards or score first point guards.

Ish Smith and Canaan being "at least as good" as MCW?

per 36 numbers with the Sixers THIS YEAR:
MCW - 15.9 ppg, 7.8 apg, 6.6 rpg, 4.5 TO pg (20.1 TO%), 1.6 spg, .6 bpg, 27.2 USG, 44 TS%, 38% fg, 25.6 3fg%, DB+/-: +0.8
Canaan - 16.8 ppg, 4.1 apg, 3.6 rpg, 2.3 TOpg (12.2 TO%), .7 spg, .2 bpg, 19.2 USG, 50 TS%, 36.5% fg, 35.6 3fg%, DB+/-: -3.3
Smith - 16.2 ppg, 8.7 apg, 4.0 rpg, 4.1 TOpg (18.0 TO%), 1.6 spg, .3 bpg, 27.2 USG, 44.2 TS%, 39.3% fg, 34.4 fg%, DB+/-: -3.9

Ish and MCW have VERY similar numbers (in a much smaller sample size for Smith), so you might have a point there, I would still take MCW over him right now, and I think in the future MCW will be a really good player under Kidd.

[Jonatton Yeah]

Pretty good ranking all things considered. I think being ranked low is more of a reflection of how insanely good the position is right now rather than a personal slight.

[loserX]

There is a lot of commentary in the article that is mostly blurbs about each player, and some summary info. I cut that out to keep this post legal.

The top tier
1. Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder (732 points, 13 first-place votes)
2. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors (727 points, 9 first-place votes)
3. Chris Paul, Los Angeles Clippers (652 points, 3 first-place votes)
4. Kyrie Irving, Cleveland Cavaliers (630 points)
5. Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers (614 points)
6. John Wall, Washington Wizards (595 points)
7. Mike Conley, Memphis Grizzlies (570 points)
8. Kyle Lowry, Toronto Raptors (550 points)
9. Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs (511 points)
10. Jeff Teague, Atlanta Hawks (499 points)

The middle tier
11. Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls (489 points)
12. Goran Dragic, Miami Heat (467 points)
13. Eric Bledsoe, Phoenix Suns (456 points)
14. Ty Lawson, Denver Nuggets (450 points)
15. Rajon Rondo, Dallas Mavericks (436 points)
16. Kemba Walker, Charlotte Hornets (420 points)
17. Ricky Rubio, Minnesota Timberwolves (401 points)
18. Jrue Holiday, New Orleans Pelicans (396 points)
19. Reggie Jackson, Detroit Pistons (374 points)
20. Deron Williams, Brooklyn Nets (356 points)

The bottom tier
21. Brandon Jennings, Detroit Pistons (340 points)
22. George Hill, Indiana Pacers (315 points)
23. Darren Collison, Sacramento Kings (300 points)
24. Brandon Knight, Phoenix Suns (287 points)
25. Isaiah Thomas, Boston Celtics (125 points)
26. Patrick Beverley, Houston Rockets (120 points)
27. D.J. Augustin, Oklahoma City Thunder (92 points)
28. Jarrett Jack, Brooklyn Nets (75 points)
29. Mo Williams, Charlotte Hornets (73 points)
30. Trey Burke, Utah Jazz (32 points)

How exactly are the points scored? Just curious, as they're sort of linear-ish (apart from the Curry-Paul gap, almost everyone is within 25 or so points of the next player) until they fall off a cliff after Brandon Knight.

[skones]

MCW has value because of his tools, not his current ability, though his defensive contributions alone should easily place him above some of the guys on that list.

[tooler]

I'd take Elfrid over him right now because at least he knows his limitations. We all assume it's easy to get a guy to stop taking bad shots, stop turnovers, etc. but if it were easy we wouldn't have any veterans like that!

[giberish]

He's probably better then Burke, but several other guys (including Bayless on Milwaulkee) are better then both.

[MagicMadness]

Great example of a "puts up stats in a detrimental way" guy.

[dorkestra]

I think it's tough to judge him so far. He's had such an odd career for how short it has been. Arguably one of the best NBA debut games that I've ever seen. Probably because of how surprising it was. And against the defending champion Heat. The guy does not back down from the moment.

But then throughout last season, he showed a poor jumpshot whilst having relatively good form. That is a worry for me, because if your form is down, it only comes down to two more aspects: repetition (training the muscle memory) and that level of spacial awareness and hand-eye coordination that you see in the natural shooters. By all accounts, he works his fine ass off in the gym. I fear he just doesn't have that shooters touch.

Kidd wasn't a good shooter until his later days. Kidd also possessed elite vision and physicality for his position. MCW has good athleticism and elite length for his position. I think whether or not he can really fulfil his potential depends on whether or not he can figure out the right balance of attack in terms of setting up the offense. He's still figuring out the rest of the Bucks team which is understandable. I think we can gauge his standing a lot better after the first month of next season. Give him the summer and pre-season to figure to get settled in.