ESPN: Knicks having discussions for a Derrick Rose trade

[Prokorov]

If they give up anyone of value (1st rounder, any of Lopez, Melo or Porzingis), then I would agree with you.

But if it's for Calderon and change, then it wouldn't be very Knicks like.

sure it would... throwing half their capspace at a guy who statistically was one of the 3 worst PGs in the league last season. a PR move with no short or long term upside.

Rose improved remarkably post January. If the Knicks miss the free-agents worth of a long term commitment, and they likely will, it'd be a very smart move. If he builds on his improvement on the second half of last season, and it might be he's still shaking the rust, it probably is the best way of improving their team this season while leaving their options open for the next Summer - even if it's extremely unlikely that Rose ever goes back to his All-NBA level.

shaking off the rust? 3 years of shaking off the rust?

also "improved remarkably" is really misleading, given that he was playing at a dleague level and his improvement brought him up to "one of the worst starters in the league". not to mention, its not even accurate that he finished strong. really all he did was have a decent january. which was still a pretty bad month. 17/3/3 on 52TS is not very good.

january - 17/3/3 on 52 TS
february - 20/5/5 on 50 TS
march - 16/2/4 on 51 TS
april - 13/3/4 on 40 TS (3 games)

post all-star 17/3/4 on 51 TS

sure he improved from being arguably the worst starting player in the league to a bottom starting 5 point gaurd from first to second half but he was still a bad player who got worse from january to april. All he does is score and he does so at a horrible rate even if you throw out pre-january or pre-allstar break.

as a comparison

calderon post all-star 8/3/4 on 54 TS with half the usage of rose(13% to 27%)

you would be better off asking calderon to take twice as many shots

[Potential]

Rose is holding that team back they would be much scarier with Snell, Moore, Brooks, McBuckets and Felicio who are all known for dropping 30 each

[LarryBirdsFingr]

Rose is holding that team back they would be much scarier with Snell, Moore, Brooks, McBuckets and Felicio who all are known for dropping 30 each

yeah they're going no where with him. its over.

[Novocaine]

sure it would... throwing half their capspace at a guy who statistically was one of the 3 worst PGs in the league last season. a PR move with no short or long term upside.

Rose improved remarkably post January. If the Knicks miss the free-agents worth of a long term commitment, and they likely will, it'd be a very smart move. If he builds on his improvement on the second half of last season, and it might be he's still shaking the rust, it probably is the best way of improving their team this season while leaving their options open for the next Summer - even if it's extremely unlikely that Rose ever goes back to his All-NBA level.

shaking off the rust? 3 years of shaking off the rust?

also "improved remarkably" is really misleading, given that he was playing at a dleague level and his improvement brought him up to "one of the worst starters in the league". not to mention, its not even accurate that he finished strong. really all he did was have a decent january. which was still a pretty bad month. 17/3/3 on 52TS is not very good.

january - 17/3/3 on 52 TS
february - 20/5/5 on 50 TS
march - 16/2/4 on 51 TS
april - 13/3/4 on 40 TS (3 games)

post all-star 17/3/4 on 51 TS

sure he improved from being arguably the worst starting player in the league to a bottom starting 5 point gaurd from first to second half but he was still a bad player who got worse from january to april. All he does is score and he does so at a horrible rate even if you throw out pre-january or pre-allstar break.

as a comparison

calderon post all-star 8/3/4 on 54 TS with half the usage of rose(13% to 27%)

you would be better off asking calderon to take twice as many shots

I said the improvement was remarkable, not his level of play. And the improvement was indeed remarkable. that's why I said "if he builds upon what he's already improved". never said he finished strong or whatever you mentioned there. And yeah, it's precisely because he played 61 games in the 3 previous seasons that he might still be shaking rust, especially at a mental level.

[Warriorfan]

Lopez and Calderon is about right. Rose is not a top 10 PG anymore.

[Prokorov]

Rose improved remarkably post January. If the Knicks miss the free-agents worth of a long term commitment, and they likely will, it'd be a very smart move. If he builds on his improvement on the second half of last season, and it might be he's still shaking the rust, it probably is the best way of improving their team this season while leaving their options open for the next Summer - even if it's extremely unlikely that Rose ever goes back to his All-NBA level.

shaking off the rust? 3 years of shaking off the rust?

also "improved remarkably" is really misleading, given that he was playing at a dleague level and his improvement brought him up to "one of the worst starters in the league". not to mention, its not even accurate that he finished strong. really all he did was have a decent january. which was still a pretty bad month. 17/3/3 on 52TS is not very good.

january - 17/3/3 on 52 TS
february - 20/5/5 on 50 TS
march - 16/2/4 on 51 TS
april - 13/3/4 on 40 TS (3 games)

post all-star 17/3/4 on 51 TS

sure he improved from being arguably the worst starting player in the league to a bottom starting 5 point gaurd from first to second half but he was still a bad player who got worse from january to april. All he does is score and he does so at a horrible rate even if you throw out pre-january or pre-allstar break.

as a comparison

calderon post all-star 8/3/4 on 54 TS with half the usage of rose(13% to 27%)

you would be better off asking calderon to take twice as many shots

I said the improvement was remarkable, not his level of play. And the improvement was indeed remarkable. that's why I said "if he builds upon what he's already improved". never said he finished strong or whatever you mentioned there. And yeah, it's precisely because he played 61 games in the 3 previous seasons that he might still be shaking rust, especially at a mental level.

i dont think its remarkable at all. I mean when you are playing at a d-league level there is no where to go but up. to improve from d-league/scrub level to bad nba starter really isnt improving its no longer playing like you dont even belong in the league.

him playing like a legit above average nba starter would be remarkable... and unlikely, which is why you arent going to see teams give up anything of value. id assume this goes like it did with dwill. the team makes him available but the 2 or teams actually itnerested just wait and see if he gets bought out

[ChuckyFE]

as a comparison

calderon post all-star 8/3/4 on 54 TS with half the usage of rose(13% to 27%)

you would be better off asking calderon to take twice as many shots

Calderon is only that efficient because he mostly only ever takes open shots, which isn't often. If you ask him to shoot more, his efficiency would take a dive.

[mowcrowbar]

I mean, why the hell not? What does the Knicks have to lose?

[TheDavinciCHODE]

Derrick Rose is not an upgrade over Jose Calderon. Don't do it, Phil, unless he's been waived by Chicago and is coming at a steep discount.

This is a ban-worthy post.

[Quotatious]

Honestly, Rose is a bottom 10 starting PG these days. For majority of the season, I thought Rose and Kobe were two of the worst starters in the league. If I ever saw a "pseudo-star", those guys fit that description very well. Sure, Rose had flashes of his old self (especially the game where he outplayed Westbrook, took over in the 4th quarter and led the Bulls to a victory over the Thunder in early November), but he's a below average player, most of the time. He was 439th of 462 players in RPM, way below average BPM and TS%, below average PER, too.

I was a big fan of Rose during his MVP season, but he's a starter in the NBA nowadays only because of his reputation, the fact that he's a former MVP.

[coldfish]

I think one of the missed points here is that with how much capspace there is and how little talent available to take it, a guy like Rose on a 1 year $20M deal is not such a bad contract. Some of the free agent deals written this summer will be absurd.

For Chicago, this is kind of a double edged sword. I doubt they can get anything of significant value for him but they could trade him for capspace. The problem is: What do you do with that space? You are probably going to end up using it to sign a guy worse than Rose for a worse contract than Rose.

End result is that Chicago will probably just keep Rose unless some team with lots of capspace and no one to spend it on gets desperate and offers real value for him.

[Froob]

lol guess if they get him for free it's not really a bad move. I hope things work out for Rose, he seems like a good dude. I love his no reaction to everything he does, hits that ice cold 3 to win that playoff game in Cleveland and he just walks off the court like it's no big deal.

[Ito]

As long as its a Pg and passed his prime the knicks will always be interested.. Francis, Marbury, Rose.. Cant believe they didnt give Iverson a shot, they didnt cuz it could have worked out.. they couldnt afford to do that

[BackseatBoss]

Rose is holding that team back they would be much scarier with Snell, Moore, Brooks, McBuckets and Felicio who are all known for dropping 30 each

The problem for Chicago is that they won't play 82 games against the Raptors.

[koogiking]

Calseron OQuinn and second rounders is all I would give up

[jokeboy86]

Knicks have nothing to offer and they could just wait till after next season when he's a FA. And when Rose does become a FA, call me crazy but I could see him ending up in San Antonio. I actually think the Spurs would be the best fit for him as far as the team environment, coach, and also expectations which wouldn't be as savior as they were in Chicago. Parker is getting up there and I think Rose and Leonard would be perfect. Plus Pop seems to know how to manage players with injuries. And I think Duncan(retired or not) could sell him on joining the team.

[dpgcdr]

The Knicks didn't learn from last time when they acquired another player that also wore #1 with legs of a senior?

[phanman]

Based on everything being reported - GarPax feels differently. I suspect they don't want to be in a position where they have to deal with the local media and fans asking to re-sign him.

I feel the same way.. especially with his ridiculous comments last year about him looking forward to free agency to "set up his family for life" indicating that he still thinks of himself as a mega-max player. There is no way the Bulls extend him to that 5-year deal unless he somehow jumps into a time-machine and becomes Rose of old.

Do you think it will be similar to the Amare situation where the insurance company wont insure the deal when it happens?

sure it would... throwing half their capspace at a guy who statistically was one of the 3 worst PGs in the league last season. a PR move with no short or long term upside.

In the scenario though, they're trading for him so its not like they'd really be dipping into the cap space any ways.

Calderon(7.7) + Lopez(13.2) = 20.9 works financially for Rose(21m). Lopez fills the big hole down low with Gasol's departure and their unwillingness(from reports) to resign Noah and it allows Porzingod to get more time at C which I think will eventually become his FT position with the way league is going. Calderon is pretty much just a throw-in to make it work but it could end up being beneficial for both. Maybe they can get the Knicks to throw in Grant as well. I'm thinking Afflalo opts out of his 8m contract also so they do have some cap space to work with,

As stated above it allows the Bulls to finally move on from the Rose era and allow Butler to take full rein of the team. Despite his regression, Rose still plays like he's the MVP and that was one of the big reasons they faltered this season.. along with the injuries and lack of D.

[GoldenAntlers]

This would be a very Knicks like acquisition

Tell me about it. It's a shame when I can predict my teams stupidity

If not for new ownership, the Bucks would have been all over a trade for Rose.
I feel for the Knick's fan-base. Long-standing incompetence is not enjoyable.

[AFM]

Get Felton and Quentin Richardson