New York number three seed in the east ?
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
New York number one hoops team in the land
Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
Amsterdam wrote:Atlhawks09 wrote:Amsterdam wrote:
Why are the Hawks better than the Knicks, when they lost two formadable players.
Say it again.
Cavs
Toronto
Pacers
Celtics
That's it.
Better overall team and better coach. I think Howard is an upgrade over Horford and Schroder can/will be better than Teague.
You have more question marks than the Riddlers outfit.
Rose alone have more question marks than all other east teams combine.
KC: Do you still think your a championship caliber team?
Gar: I never said that and correct me if i'm wrong
KC: You were asked that question at the news conference announcing Thibodeau's dismissal and you answered yes
Gar: I never said that and correct me if i'm wrong
KC: You were asked that question at the news conference announcing Thibodeau's dismissal and you answered yes
Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
AIfan3 wrote:The Cavs , Raptors and Pistons will be in the top 3. I don't know exactly where each will end up, but it's hard to see any other East squad getting that high up there.
I don't see how Pistons finish 3rd...
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CoachD wrote:AIfan3 wrote:The Cavs , Raptors and Pistons will be in the top 3. I don't know exactly where each will end up, but it's hard to see any other East squad getting that high up there.
I don't see how Pistons finish 3rd...
Really? They are a very strong team, that is young and balanced.
Depth chart:
pg - Jackson, I.Smith, L.Brown
sg - KCP, Bullock
sf - M.Morris, (T.Harris), S.Johnson
pf - T.Harris, J.Leuer, Ellenson
cc - Drummond, Boban (Ellenson)
The team is built off young guys, generally 2-way players, who already have solid experience and are generally trending up. They were defending very well last season, and their offense improved with the addition of Harris as a small-ball 4 (covered by Drummond on defense).
This kind of balanced team is built in the Atlanta Hawks model of a couple years ago, or even the Pistons Championship model (where guys haven't shown that level of talent, yet, but could very well end up at a similar level).
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
CoachD wrote:AIfan3 wrote:The Cavs , Raptors and Pistons will be in the top 3. I don't know exactly where each will end up, but it's hard to see any other East squad getting that high up there.
I don't see how Pistons finish 3rd...
Ha, you're after the Pistons hard today.
I could see it. Drummond takes the next step, a lot of room for organic growth with Jackson, KCP, Stanley Johnson...a good amount of depth.
3rd is probably their ceiling, but there is definitely a shot.
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MGB8 wrote:CoachD wrote:AIfan3 wrote:The Cavs , Raptors and Pistons will be in the top 3. I don't know exactly where each will end up, but it's hard to see any other East squad getting that high up there.
I don't see how Pistons finish 3rd...
Really? They are a very strong team, that is young and balanced.
Depth chart:
pg - Jackson, I.Smith, L.Brown
sg - KCP, Bullock
sf - M.Morris, (T.Harris), S.Johnson
pf - T.Harris, J.Leuer, Ellenson
cc - Drummond, Boban (Ellenson)
The team is built off young guys, generally 2-way players, who already have solid experience and are generally trending up. They were defending very well last season, and their offense improved with the addition of Harris as a small-ball 4 (covered by Drummond on defense).
This kind of balanced team is built in the Atlanta Hawks model of a couple years ago, or even the Pistons Championship model (where guys haven't shown that level of talent, yet, but could very well end up at a similar level).
So essentially, the same team that finished 8th, but with Tobias Harris for a whole season, and the addition of an NBA journeyman, you expect them to climb 5 spots.
Man.
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They Knicks don't have the health for a 3 seed which typically requires the core of your roster to play 70+ games.
If they have “reasonable” health where they get ~65games from Melo, Noah, Lee, and Rose - I see them landing in a low playoff spot and putting up a reasonable fight in the first round.
Most likely I see them missing the playoffs again.
If they have “reasonable” health where they get ~65games from Melo, Noah, Lee, and Rose - I see them landing in a low playoff spot and putting up a reasonable fight in the first round.
Most likely I see them missing the playoffs again.
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
Teams that are definitively better barring injury:
Cle, Tor, Ind, Bos, Cha, Orl, Det
Probably Atl too
I still like the Wiz and Bucks more as well as Miami.
They will battle it out with Chicago and Milwaukee for 12th
Cle, Tor, Ind, Bos, Cha, Orl, Det
Probably Atl too
I still like the Wiz and Bucks more as well as Miami.
They will battle it out with Chicago and Milwaukee for 12th
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
In a perfect world, sure. I could see a scenario in which the Knicks are able to stay healthy, quickly develop chemistry, buy into Hornacek's system, and have home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs. However, I can also see several far more likely scenarios where the Knicks struggle because they have so many new players, a new coach, suffer injuries, and struggle because they have an awful bench with almost no depth whatsoever.
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
CoachD wrote:MGB8 wrote:CoachD wrote:
I don't see how Pistons finish 3rd...
Really? They are a very strong team, that is young and balanced.
Depth chart:
pg - Jackson, I.Smith, L.Brown
sg - KCP, Bullock
sf - M.Morris, (T.Harris), S.Johnson
pf - T.Harris, J.Leuer, Ellenson
cc - Drummond, Boban (Ellenson)
The team is built off young guys, generally 2-way players, who already have solid experience and are generally trending up. They were defending very well last season, and their offense improved with the addition of Harris as a small-ball 4 (covered by Drummond on defense).
This kind of balanced team is built in the Atlanta Hawks model of a couple years ago, or even the Pistons Championship model (where guys haven't shown that level of talent, yet, but could very well end up at a similar level).
So essentially, the same team that finished 8th, but with Tobias Harris for a whole season, and the addition of an NBA journeyman, you expect them to climb 5 spots.
Man.
The Pistons were 18-9 after acquiring Harris... extrapolated to a full season that's the 3rd seed last year.
But then you add the fact that all of their key players are young and getting better each season, most of them not even in their primes yet.
That they added depth with a legit NBA pg in Ish Smith (a huge upgrade over a terrible Brandon Jennings and an old Steve Blake), and a "journeyman" rotation stretch 4 that, per 36 last season, put up 16pt/11rb/2as/1st/1blk while shooting 38% from 3 on good volume...
That they have a 2nd season under a very solid coach.
Man! is right.
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so what are you using to come to a conclusion? Your "gut feeling"?CoachD wrote:MGB8 wrote:CoachD wrote:
I don't see how Pistons finish 3rd...
Really? They are a very strong team, that is young and balanced.
Depth chart:
pg - Jackson, I.Smith, L.Brown
sg - KCP, Bullock
sf - M.Morris, (T.Harris), S.Johnson
pf - T.Harris, J.Leuer, Ellenson
cc - Drummond, Boban (Ellenson)
The team is built off young guys, generally 2-way players, who already have solid experience and are generally trending up. They were defending very well last season, and their offense improved with the addition of Harris as a small-ball 4 (covered by Drummond on defense).
This kind of balanced team is built in the Atlanta Hawks model of a couple years ago, or even the Pistons Championship model (where guys haven't shown that level of talent, yet, but could very well end up at a similar level).
So essentially, the same team that finished 8th, but with Tobias Harris for a whole season, and the addition of an NBA journeyman, you expect them to climb 5 spots.
Man.
I'll stick to how the team played with Harris joining the starting lineup, (16-9) how they played the Cavs in the playoffs, and a much improved bench, which was the biggest weakness last year.
They also have the best game finisher in the league in Jackson.
Your just saying words, with no real thought behind them, save for "because I said so".
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xBulletproof wrote:Amsterdam wrote:xBulletproof wrote:Looks good until the team bus hits a pothole and half of the team is in training room and missing half the season.
Like when Paul George went down with the injury? This happens, but hopefully never again.
But if healthy, which we desire for everyone's competitive nature, the Knicks are going to be a strong team.
You're comparing a guy who had one freak injury to guys who haven't been able to stay healthy, year after year after year?
Not really comparable.
But sht happens, so if we keep it safe and say everyone will be healthy, even PG, then the Knicks are for real...no?
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Yallbecrazy wrote:Teams that are definitively better barring injury:
Cle, Tor, Ind, Bos, Cha, Orl, Det
Probably Atl too
I still like the Wiz and Bucks more as well as Miami.
They will battle it out with Chicago and Milwaukee for 12th
GTFO,
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
Atlhawks09 wrote:Amsterdam wrote:Atlhawks09 wrote:Better overall team and better coach. I think Howard is an upgrade over Horford and Schroder can/will be better than Teague.
You have more question marks than the Riddlers outfit.
Ha and you don't? Difference is the Hawks have won 108 games the last 2 years..Knicks have won 49.
Tides change.
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jimmy_smith wrote:Amsterdam wrote:Atlhawks09 wrote:Better overall team and better coach. I think Howard is an upgrade over Horford and Schroder can/will be better than Teague.
You have more question marks than the Riddlers outfit.
Rose alone have more question marks than all other east teams combine.
So who's your team?
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
Amsterdam wrote:xBulletproof wrote:Amsterdam wrote:
Like when Paul George went down with the injury? This happens, but hopefully never again.
But if healthy, which we desire for everyone's competitive nature, the Knicks are going to be a strong team.
You're comparing a guy who had one freak injury to guys who haven't been able to stay healthy, year after year after year?
Not really comparable.
But sht happens, so if we keep it safe and say everyone will be healthy, even PG, then the Knicks are for teal...no?
Maybe. Derrick Rose and his TS% of 48% roughly and PER of 14 something the last 2 years is pretty ugly. Noah looked pretty iffy the last 2 years as well (maybe injuries?), and Eric Gordon has a PER of 13 the last 2 years.
There are a lot of if's here, one, maybe two of these guys need to play like their old self and I'm not sure how realistic that might be. Also Rose needs to accept he's a 3rd option on offense (or worse), and I'm not sure he's willing to do that. If KP improves at all (which he should) there's no way Rose should get more shots.
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
ciregno wrote:Cleveland is the clear #1 out East. Indiana is number 2 but not by a whole lot I don't think. I think from 2-8, it's going to be a highly competitive fight til the very last game similar to what happened between Atlanta, Miami, Boston, and Charlotte this past season.
Howard, I feel, is a regression from Horford/Teague. Atlanta loses depth at PG and Howard just isn't the same player anymore. Post Orlando, he's no longer that dominant force and is a liability on offense if not involved. Boston improved this offseason, and may potentially make more moves. Charlotte, also lost some depth and added Hibbert who also isn't the same player as he was. Miami definitely got worst. Toronto surprised me last year, I think they'll be fighting Indiana for that #2 spot. Detroit will be on the upswing as well. Chicago is just an odd team to me. They have no long range shooters in their back court, and is Butler going to play the 3? Hoiberg is also a huge downgrade over Thibs.
NYK made moves for sure, but I think the most important thing to look at with this team over last years is mostly the hiring of Hornacek as coach, along with KP having a full year under his belt. Obviously if the Knicks can stay healthy for 60-70% of the season (and that's a big IF with our crappy medical team and history) I could see us fighting for anywhere between the 2-6 spot. However, any less than that, we're fighting for anywhere between 7-10 in the East. Rose and Noah will have to take on lesser roles, and I can see that happening with them playing alongside Melo and KP. Like the Knicks have said, they're building this team around KP, not Melo, and this has already started this season by surrounding him with vets.
1. Cleveland
2-6. Indiana, Toronto, Boston, New York, Atlanta
7-10. Charlotte, Chicago, Detroit, Orlando
While your post is excellent, I have but one disagreement. Atlanta to me has fallen to 7-10.
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ciregno wrote:Cleveland is the clear #1 out East. Indiana is number 2 but not by a whole lot I don't think. I think from 2-8, it's going to be a highly competitive fight til the very last game similar to what happened between Atlanta, Miami, Boston, and Charlotte this past season.
Howard, I feel, is a regression from Horford/Teague. Atlanta loses depth at PG and Howard just isn't the same player anymore. Post Orlando, he's no longer that dominant force and is a liability on offense if not involved. Boston improved this offseason, and may potentially make more moves. Charlotte, also lost some depth and added Hibbert who also isn't the same player as he was. Miami definitely got worst. Toronto surprised me last year, I think they'll be fighting Indiana for that #2 spot. Detroit will be on the upswing as well. Chicago is just an odd team to me. They have no long range shooters in their back court, and is Butler going to play the 3? Hoiberg is also a huge downgrade over Thibs.
NYK made moves for sure, but I think the most important thing to look at with this team over last years is mostly the hiring of Hornacek as coach, along with KP having a full year under his belt. Obviously if the Knicks can stay healthy for 60-70% of the season (and that's a big IF with our crappy medical team and history) I could see us fighting for anywhere between the 2-6 spot. However, any less than that, we're fighting for anywhere between 7-10 in the East. Rose and Noah will have to take on lesser roles, and I can see that happening with them playing alongside Melo and KP. Like the Knicks have said, they're building this team around KP, not Melo, and this has already started this season by surrounding him with vets.
1. Cleveland
2-6. Indiana, Toronto, Boston, New York, Atlanta
7-10. Charlotte, Chicago, Detroit, Orlando
Horford has regressed as well though...he hasn't been the same since his second pec injury and really struggled in the playoffs. Hawks were one of the worst rebounding teams in the league and swapping Howard for Horford(averaged 4 RPG against Cle) is a huge upgrade in that department. Plus has Howard regressed that much or did he struggle playing in Houston because of Harden ISO??
Schroder can be better than Teague and getting Jack 100% healthy and that is a solid PG duo. I think Tauren Prince (#12 pick) will suprise people too.
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
Amsterdam wrote:ciregno wrote:Cleveland is the clear #1 out East. Indiana is number 2 but not by a whole lot I don't think. I think from 2-8, it's going to be a highly competitive fight til the very last game similar to what happened between Atlanta, Miami, Boston, and Charlotte this past season.
Howard, I feel, is a regression from Horford/Teague. Atlanta loses depth at PG and Howard just isn't the same player anymore. Post Orlando, he's no longer that dominant force and is a liability on offense if not involved. Boston improved this offseason, and may potentially make more moves. Charlotte, also lost some depth and added Hibbert who also isn't the same player as he was. Miami definitely got worst. Toronto surprised me last year, I think they'll be fighting Indiana for that #2 spot. Detroit will be on the upswing as well. Chicago is just an odd team to me. They have no long range shooters in their back court, and is Butler going to play the 3? Hoiberg is also a huge downgrade over Thibs.
NYK made moves for sure, but I think the most important thing to look at with this team over last years is mostly the hiring of Hornacek as coach, along with KP having a full year under his belt. Obviously if the Knicks can stay healthy for 60-70% of the season (and that's a big IF with our crappy medical team and history) I could see us fighting for anywhere between the 2-6 spot. However, any less than that, we're fighting for anywhere between 7-10 in the East. Rose and Noah will have to take on lesser roles, and I can see that happening with them playing alongside Melo and KP. Like the Knicks have said, they're building this team around KP, not Melo, and this has already started this season by surrounding him with vets.
1. Cleveland
2-6. Indiana, Toronto, Boston, New York, Atlanta
7-10. Charlotte, Chicago, Detroit, Orlando
While your post is excellent, I have but one disagreement. Atlanta to me has fallen to 7-10.
We'll see. People say the Hawks are going to take a step back every year since we lost Joe Johnson..yet it never happens.
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Re: New York number three seed in the east ?
Atlhawks09 wrote:Amsterdam wrote:ciregno wrote:Cleveland is the clear #1 out East. Indiana is number 2 but not by a whole lot I don't think. I think from 2-8, it's going to be a highly competitive fight til the very last game similar to what happened between Atlanta, Miami, Boston, and Charlotte this past season.
Howard, I feel, is a regression from Horford/Teague. Atlanta loses depth at PG and Howard just isn't the same player anymore. Post Orlando, he's no longer that dominant force and is a liability on offense if not involved. Boston improved this offseason, and may potentially make more moves. Charlotte, also lost some depth and added Hibbert who also isn't the same player as he was. Miami definitely got worst. Toronto surprised me last year, I think they'll be fighting Indiana for that #2 spot. Detroit will be on the upswing as well. Chicago is just an odd team to me. They have no long range shooters in their back court, and is Butler going to play the 3? Hoiberg is also a huge downgrade over Thibs.
NYK made moves for sure, but I think the most important thing to look at with this team over last years is mostly the hiring of Hornacek as coach, along with KP having a full year under his belt. Obviously if the Knicks can stay healthy for 60-70% of the season (and that's a big IF with our crappy medical team and history) I could see us fighting for anywhere between the 2-6 spot. However, any less than that, we're fighting for anywhere between 7-10 in the East. Rose and Noah will have to take on lesser roles, and I can see that happening with them playing alongside Melo and KP. Like the Knicks have said, they're building this team around KP, not Melo, and this has already started this season by surrounding him with vets.
1. Cleveland
2-6. Indiana, Toronto, Boston, New York, Atlanta
7-10. Charlotte, Chicago, Detroit, Orlando
While your post is excellent, I have but one disagreement. Atlanta to me has fallen to 7-10.
We'll see. People say the Hawks are going to take a step back every year since we lost Joe Johnson..yet it never happens.
Dude, how can you not value, as a true Hawks fan, the departure of two All-stars from your starting line-up and continue to insist that you are a better team?