Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents

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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#101 » by matt6715 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:26 pm

Honestly I think it has a lot to do with culture. Dirk is a guy who keeps to himself, keeps a low profile off the court, and guys these days want to be sharing a Banana boat with their teammates in the offseason.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#102 » by Hangtime84 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:32 pm

MrPerfect1 wrote:The answer is pretty obvious, most top players aren't looking to sign with a Fringe playoff team who isn't a title contender and a really old roster (even moreso with their best player being quite old).

I don't have much sympathy for the Mavs, 90% of the NBA has almost no chance to land the very top FA's, DAL just seems to be in part of that group


So did Spurs before LaMarcus
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#103 » by The Infamous1 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:24 pm

The media went out of their way to over praise him for taking Less money a few years ago.
But Looking back what the hell has that done for the Mavericks?
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#104 » by urgal » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:26 pm

RCM88x wrote:Dallas feel like its right in the middle in terms of NBA free agency, which is the worst area. They aren't a big glamorous city or a Basketball town like LA and New York. Nor are they a quite, small market team like Memphis or Portland. They don't have a losing reputation, or a really a winning one. They area always just "good".
....

A couple of remarks:

1) Those "glamorous basketball towns" NY and LA haven't landed a big free agent since forever, unless you count Mozgov as one

2) How does Dallas not have a winning reputation? They reached the playoffs in 15 out of the last 16 years (which is second behind the spurs I believe), won the trophy a couple of years ago and haven't had a losing record since the late 90s

With free agents, it always come's down to money (1) and fit/personnel (2). They don't care necessarily about market first, cuz if so we'd see the teams you mentioned land all important free agents every summer.

With every free agent they pursued (Dwight, Dwill, Jordan, Whiteside, Conley), Dallas was never in the postion to offer the most money. As simple as that.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#105 » by RCM88x » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:31 pm

urgal wrote:
RCM88x wrote:Dallas feel like its right in the middle in terms of NBA free agency, which is the worst area. They aren't a big glamorous city or a Basketball town like LA and New York. Nor are they a quite, small market team like Memphis or Portland. They don't have a losing reputation, or a really a winning one. They area always just "good".
....

A couple of remarks:

1) Those "glamorous basketball towns" NY and LA haven't landed a big free agent since forever, unless you count Mozgov as one

2) How does Dallas not have a winning reputation? They reached the playoffs in 15 out of the last 16 years (which is second behind the spurs I believe), won the trophy a couple of years ago and hadn't haved a losing record since the late 90s

With free agents, it always come's down to money (1) and fit (2). They don't care necessarily about market first, cuz if so we'd see the teams you mentioned land all important free agents every summer.

With every free agent they pursued (Dwight, Dwill, Jordan, Whiteside, Conley), Dallas was never in the postion to offer the most money. As simple as that.


Didn't LA get Dwight and Nash a few years ago, sure they sucked on the teams but they are big names. NY got Noah just this year. But yea, I'll agree with you a bit on that. Those teams have been bad for a while now.

I think its more about perception than reality when it comes to winning reputation. There are just a lot of good teams in the west its hard for a team like Dallas to break through. There have been a lot of good Dallas teams, but none of them really were great or even really good. Kind of always 3rd to 6th best in the West for 15 years is nice but its not going to cause mass FA migration.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#106 » by urgal » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:45 pm

RCM88x wrote:
urgal wrote:
RCM88x wrote:Dallas feel like its right in the middle in terms of NBA free agency, which is the worst area. They aren't a big glamorous city or a Basketball town like LA and New York...
....

A couple of remarks:

1) Those "glamorous basketball towns" NY and LA haven't landed a big free agent since forever, unless you count Mozgov as one
...


Didn't LA get Dwight and Nash a few years ago, sure they sucked on the teams but they are big names. NY got Noah just this year. But yea, I'll agree with you a bit on that. Those teams have been bad for a while now.
....

Well, Dwight came via trade and was out of the door the second free agency started. Nash was like 40 and done.
And the Noah contract is in conversation for one of the worst contracts handed out this summer (maybe alongside Barnes though).

I wouldn't call that big name acquisitions.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#107 » by dc » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:06 pm

urgal wrote:Well, Dwight came via trade and was out of the door the second free agency started. Nash was like 40 and done.
And the Noah contract is in conversation for one of the worst contracts handed out this summer (maybe alongside Barnes though).

I wouldn't call that big name acquisitions.


Agreed. Here are the big name FA moves since 96':

Shaq going to LA in 96'
T-Mac + GHill to Orl in 2000
Nash to Phx in 2005 (wasn't expected to be such a huge impact intially)
Lebron + Bosh to Mia in 2010
Lebron to Cle in 2014
KD to GS in 2016

"Other" big FA moves would be like:

Mutombo to Denver in 96'
Eddie Jones (S&T) + Brian Grant to Mia in 2000
Rashard Lewis to Orl in 2007
Dwight to Hou in 2013
Aldridge to SA in 2015

You could throw in stuff like Ben Wallace to Chicago in 2006 if you feel like making a longer list, I suppose.

Anyhow, the list of major FAs moving around isn't huge. The true league shifting (or perceived to be at the time) FA moves are rare.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#108 » by ckchen » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:07 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
AndriPerdhian93 wrote:They should start thingking about tanking imo,.


Agrred. Not tanking like the 6ers over a 5 year plan or whatever. This would be the year to do it, tank this year, get a top 5 pick then try again for anot her big FA. Doesn't happen tank again and build around your two 1st round picks, if you get lucky you can get two guys with superstar potential (17 draft has plenty of guys and 18 has two elite bigs and Porter Jr if he gets a motor).


So....not tanking like the Sixers did....by tanking exactly like the Sixers did?

Just needed to point out the Sixers "tanking" process has been a grand total of 3 years, and they did exactly what you were describing, except they got "unlucky" in the draft each time by slipping a position just below their targeted player two years in a row (or Embiid's injury). That could easily happen to anyone employing the same strategy.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#109 » by turk3d » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:07 pm

You can't expect a team which makes the playoffs every year (and probably a pretty high seed most of the time) to get great draft picks. That's the price of success which Dirk probably has a lot to do with. When you're one of the best players ever and you rarely get hurt, you're not going to pick very high. That's not Mavs Management's fault. Not much they coud do.

Maybe if Dirk would have gotten hurt and missed a year (like David Robinson for San Antonio did) they could have wond up with a top pick (and that's not even certain, who knows if their would Tim Duncan like player available). Even with Dirk, consider how luck the Mavs were when the drafted him (a Euro player when Euro players weren't considered to bo so good) and what was he, the 20th pick or something like that and wound up turning into a franchise player. Who would have known? Give Nellie credit fot that one.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#110 » by p0peye » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:13 pm

Hindenburg wrote:Dirk got interviewed by a German newspaper Spiegel:

"We, as an organization, really have to begin to question everything. Is it me people don't want to play with? Is it Rick? Is it Mark and some agents and players hold a grudge because he blew up the 2011 champions? Nobody truly knows. Over the last 5 years, we have been continuously in for the truly big names in FA, but all we achieved in the end was that we got them more money and a better contract elsewhere. As for me personally, I don't truly care how much I make these days, my main focus is on playing for a winner."



Kinda sad to read. Dirk has sacrificed a lot salary wise yet somehow no one wants to go to play with him in Dallas.

Full interview (in German)http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/nba-dirk-nowitzki-kritisiert-personalpolitik-der-dallas-mavericks-a-1102267.html


Sounds frustrating and so familiar.

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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#111 » by symbiotic » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:05 pm

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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#112 » by Black Jack » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:05 pm

My theory is not letting the title team make another run was the start of the end...basically Cuban looked the gift horse in the mouth. If they had say made the finals again and lost...I just think they would have had more momentum to be viewed as an elite team. As of now they aren't.

Also Cuban is the type of guy who inspires dislike, so when he's not really on top people don't care to help him out.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#113 » by Rapcity_11 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:06 pm

Adelheid wrote:Dirk brutally honest with that statement. I think would have been better if the Mavs tanked 1 season in between Dirk's last 10 years to get a stud.


What, were they just supposed to sit Dirk for the season?
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#114 » by bleu » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:15 pm

Wait, you mean Harrison Barnes isn't considered a "top free agent"? :lol:
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#115 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:24 pm

Keep Steve Nash. Draft Iggy with the pick they used on Devin Harris and things look a lot different in terms of teammates for Dirk. The summer of 2004 was a missed opportunity. And despite that Dallas still should have won the title in 2006 and won 67 games after starting 0-4 in 2007.

winning titles is hard. Dallas got one. Dirk got old. Free agents want to go play with a younger superstar.

Issue isn't really about free agents not coming to Dallas nearly so much as it was the decision by Dallas to go the free agency route after a decade of tremendous success operating as an over the cap team.
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Re: Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#116 » by Lowtech801 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:40 pm

BallerTalk wrote:
Alonzo_Morning wrote:Who is talking about specifically? They've landed Barnes, Pardons, Chandler, Matthews recently and weren't far off DeAndre


The Mavs have pursued nearly every big name free agent (and several trade targets) that has been available the last 5 years including:
Dwight Howard
Chris Paul
Carmelo Anthony
Deron Williams
Chris Bosh
LaMarcus Aldridge

...hoping to pair them with Dirk.
At times they've even had enough cap space to land two premiere players yet they have whiffed again and again on upper echelon stars and ended up overpaying just to attract 3rd and 4th tier talent like those you named.

It's interesting that a lot of people are pointing to Dirk's age and decline as a deterrent for some free agents but that wasn't the case when Cuban began his star chase. At that time Dirk was an NBA champion, Finals MVP and All NBA player but they still struggled to lure top talent to the Mavs.

Personally I think it has more to do with the perceived disloyalty of immediately breaking up a championship team.
Whether fans believe it was the right thing to do or not, it gives the negative appearance that ownership was unwilling to even give the team a chance to repeat.
Add that Mark Cuban's aggressive in-your-face ownership style is abrasive to some people and conflicts with how they believe ownership should present itself, and it could give some insight into why Dallas has struggled to be an attractive free agent destination.

Yeah but dirk looked old the next year because he was playing hurt and all the back to back and 3 games in 4 nights. The year after he missed the first 20 something games because of the surgery and didn't start looking good till the last 20-30 games. He looked like he was almost done. Not surprised free agents were scared off and now he's in his late 30's. Their biggest problem to me was timing.

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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#117 » by LivingLegend » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:49 pm

BallerTalk wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:Their GM needs to start clearing cap this season so that they can toss all the money in the world at a Paul George type next year or maybe even Westbrook.


I'm pretty sure they've been doing that for the last half decade.


Well then its easy, they need to start being the defining guys in FA even if that means overpaying all-star level talent by 5-8 mill a year then what the market value is. Thats on them. If they have the cap room and they arnt getting FAs, 80% of the reason is because they are offering that all-star level player a market value contract and then that player is choosing to go to a better city/team/chance of winning a ring for the same amount of money DAL is offering. They need to give a few MORE million than what teams like GS, CLE, SA, MIA and LA are offering and then they can get the all-star level FAs.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#118 » by Cactus Jack » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:54 pm

Its too bad Dirk has decided to stay put. Would love to see him go out on top.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#119 » by BJGOAT3 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:04 am

There are maximum of 2-3 impact free agents every summer, most of them around ages 27 to 30, meaning that they are in their prime. The ones that move usually have an urgency to win and their contract runs out at the beginning of their decline, when they are around 32-33. When a team's biggest pitch is 38 y/o star, it isn't attractive for younger FA's no matter how good he still is. There is always the uncertainty of durability or level of play when players get old. It is unrealistic to expect a big name FA to commit 4 years of his prime to play in such uncertainty. Naturally they landed more B-C level FA's and their upside stayed limited to PO appearances. Its unfortunate but it could have been worse.

Lakers gave away their picks, ignored the B-C level FA's for years. Mavs shot blanks in the draft and mostly focused on FA market, never acquiring game changers. Spurs always followed the draft, re-loaded their core, hence won the LMA sweepstakes. Its that simple.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#120 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:14 am

I think Dallas just targeted the wrong Big Name free agents going too high on the list.
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