Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents

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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#141 » by garrick » Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:58 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
garrick wrote:That's the reality of small market teams that can't ever attract the superstar All stars to their teams.

The Suns have not had a major free agent sign with them in awhile and Nash was not considered a top tier FA when he resigned with the Suns.

Almost all their stars have come by way of trades or by drafts and for these small market teams the Lebrons, Durant's and Melos are not even going to remotely consider signing with a small market team like Dallas.


First I've heard that Dallas is a small market.... Dallas is a large market team with an owner who has been willing to spend huge money(only Knicks paid more in luxury tax).

And Nash was absolutely considered a top free agent. Other than Kobe who was never leaving LA, he was the #1 free agent available that year. Was he seen as the MVP candidate he became in Phoenix? No. But this was an all-NBA PG. People knew he was freaking good at basketball.

I have to disagree here, at the time there were concerns he was already on the decline because he was already in his 30's and remember neither Dallas nor the rest of the league though he was worth what the Suns offered him.

He averaged 14ppg and 7.7 assists per game the prior season with the Mavs and while the league considered him a great talent he was not considered an elite NBA player up until that point.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#142 » by 2011Champs » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:08 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
garrick wrote:That's the reality of small market teams that can't ever attract the superstar All stars to their teams.

The Suns have not had a major free agent sign with them in awhile and Nash was not considered a top tier FA when he resigned with the Suns.

Almost all their stars have come by way of trades or by drafts and for these small market teams the Lebrons, Durant's and Melos are not even going to remotely consider signing with a small market team like Dallas.


First I've heard that Dallas is a small market.... Dallas is a large market team with an owner who has been willing to spend huge money(only Knicks paid more in luxury tax).

And Nash was absolutely considered a top free agent. Other than Kobe who was never leaving LA, he was the #1 free agent available that year. Was he seen as the MVP candidate he became in Phoenix? No. But this was an all-NBA PG. People knew he was freaking good at basketball.

I find it completely hilarious when people call Dallas a "small market". These people are completely out of touch with US population statistics. DFW is the 4th largest population metropolitan area in the USA only behind NYC, LA and Chicago. Market size can not be used as an excuse not to go to Dallas. The cost of living in DFW is also such that even a lower level player here can afford the largest of mansions. Granted Dallas isn't super exciting having no coast and crappy super hot summer weather that drags on until the end of October. Dallas is far from being a small market but I'm guessing it gets that reputation in the basketball world since Mavs will always be over shadowed by the Cowboys and Rangers.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#143 » by JazzUte88 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:24 pm

The only non small-market teams are the Lakers, Knicks, Bulls, perhaps Celtics.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#144 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:37 pm

garrick wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
garrick wrote:That's the reality of small market teams that can't ever attract the superstar All stars to their teams.

The Suns have not had a major free agent sign with them in awhile and Nash was not considered a top tier FA when he resigned with the Suns.

Almost all their stars have come by way of trades or by drafts and for these small market teams the Lebrons, Durant's and Melos are not even going to remotely consider signing with a small market team like Dallas.


First I've heard that Dallas is a small market.... Dallas is a large market team with an owner who has been willing to spend huge money(only Knicks paid more in luxury tax).

And Nash was absolutely considered a top free agent. Other than Kobe who was never leaving LA, he was the #1 free agent available that year. Was he seen as the MVP candidate he became in Phoenix? No. But this was an all-NBA PG. People knew he was freaking good at basketball.

I have to disagree here, at the time there were concerns he was already on the decline because he was already in his 30's and remember neither Dallas nor the rest of the league though he was worth what the Suns offered him.

He averaged 14ppg and 7.7 assists per game the prior season with the Mavs and while the league considered him a great talent he was not considered an elite NBA player up until that point.


Don't judge Nash on 2004. That was the terrible experiment with walker and Jamison. Cuban didn't think Nash would hold up physically. He knew he was a great player though. But props to Nash for being motivated by Dallas bot matching and getting into shape and cutting way back on his going out.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#145 » by Dino353 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:58 pm

Dirk can't really complain about the roster Cuban has built this off-season. Williams-Matthews-Barnes-Dirk-Bogut is a guaranteed playoff team especially since Barnes and Bogut bring really good defense along with Matthews. Justin Anderson and Dwight Powell are emerging and will produce off the bench giving them depth, plus now they got Seth Curry off the bench who can easily slot in if Williams is out with an injury. I see them winning 50 games next season as long as Barnes and Bogut play 65+ games.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#146 » by 2011Champs » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:40 pm

Dirk should have voiced his frustration in 2012 after the 2011 championship team was dismantled with no chance to defend the title. I really don't care if Dirk is frustrated now or not. 2016 and at age 38 this is much too late.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#147 » by Mr B » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:01 pm

Teen Girl Squad wrote:A couple of reasons why Dallas as swung as missed:

1. Dirk is old and there are no other stars to team up with (no real incentive to sign long term if you are an elite FA with options).

2. Rick is an elite coach but he's also a dictator/control freak type. Not as fun as gunning with Kerr or skipping 80% of practices with Doc.

3. Much like the 76ers under Heinke, Dallas has been way to singular in their approach to team building. Nothing but FA (Philly was nothing but lottery tickets). There is no team in the league that flagrantly ignores the draft as much as Dallas does. Teams like SA and even the Stone Age Lakers constantly find contributors later in the draft, no reason bleeding-edge analytics-heavy Cuban shouldn't be able to. Dallas lacks trade chips. They don't have young players as a young, core part of building a team identity.

4 They have limited player development because even the FA they do signed are flipped super quick for another shot at the FA lottery. Top tier FAs/agents may struggle to go to a team that turns over its roster more than every other team, on average. Goes to the above point but I feel like Cuban loves analyzing stats/aggregate data from established players to find market inefficiencies but that is much harder to do in the draft so he skips over it and tries to manage his team like an angel investor or hedge fund manager does their portfolios.

Cuban needs to finally accept the need of a rebuild and start investing in scouting and development.


I pretty much agree with all of this.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#148 » by Mr B » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:08 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Maybe he doesn't understand. Hardly anyone gets big time free agents. How many stars have switched teams? LeBron, Durant, Aldridge. And Aldridge is a star but definitely no superstar.

Building through free agency is a losing proposition. It hardly ever works. Free agency is just a way to pay star prices for less than star talent.


Spot on, and even in those cases where you get big free agents, you use your young players or draft picks to build a team around them. So in other words, a team like my current Mavs, who does not have real assets, has very little chance to obtain somebody of real significance. I mean, we got Dirk through the draft, after being really bad for a year or two.


After being bad for a year or two? They had been bad since the 80's before Dirk (and Nash) got to Dallas. And they were even bad for their first 2 years in Dallas.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#149 » by Mr B » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:17 pm

BW32 wrote:I was trying to think of the last guy they drafted in the first round that actually helped them but since draft history pages record who you drafted rather than who you ended up with it's hard to say, don't think they have gotten anyone other than Crowder (2nd rounder) since Devin Harris tho.


Josh Howard was a 1st round pick, he made 1 all star. Donnie wanted to draft the Greek Freak but Cuban overruled him and they traded the pick to save the money to offer to Dwight Howard (the year he went to Houston).
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#150 » by Johnny Firpo » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:21 pm

Mr B wrote:After being bad for a year or two? They had been bad since the 80's before Dirk (and Nash) got to Dallas. And they were even bad for their first 2 years in Dallas.


I know, I worded it incorrectly. I was thinking about how a team doesn't necessarily have to be bad for a decade, but for one or two years it's basically necessary.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#151 » by Mr B » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:39 pm

mowcrowbar wrote:Honestly, don't know why people would want to play in Texas. Blistering hot in the deep south, pass.


Top NFL players have done it for years. The Cowboys have always been able to get their desired FA target, at least for the most part they have been able to.

This is not a new thing with the Mavs. They've been swinging and missing since they tried to sign Rashard Lewis when he left the Sonics.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#152 » by 2011Champs » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:27 am

Mr B wrote:
mowcrowbar wrote:Honestly, don't know why people would want to play in Texas. Blistering hot in the deep south, pass.


Top NFL players have done it for years. The Cowboys have always been able to get their desired FA target, at least for the most part they have been able to.

This is not a new thing with the Mavs. They've been swinging and missing since they tried to sign Rashard Lewis when he left the Sonics.
Rashard Lewis was a different story. Dallas had only MLE to sign him and came close to selling him on taking it. It's those times where Dallas offers the full max and players still won't consider Dallas really shows that free agents don't want to come here.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#153 » by 2011Champs » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:40 am

UtahJazzFan88 wrote:The only non small-market teams are the Lakers, Knicks, Bulls, perhaps Celtics.

Boston is ranked 10th in metro population. Still a smaller market than Dallas.

NYC
La
Chicago
Dallas
Houston
DC
Philadelphia
Miami
Atlanta
Boston
San Francisco
Phoenix

In that order are the top metro areas in the USA. My opinion is that much of the population of Dallas, Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix is that much of the population is transplanted from other parts of the USA and there are not as many deeply rooted life long fans of those teams as say Boston or Philly. This may cause big market teams to have smaller fan bases similar to smaller market teams.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#154 » by Mr B » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:59 am

2011Champs wrote:
Mr B wrote:
mowcrowbar wrote:Honestly, don't know why people would want to play in Texas. Blistering hot in the deep south, pass.


Top NFL players have done it for years. The Cowboys have always been able to get their desired FA target, at least for the most part they have been able to.

This is not a new thing with the Mavs. They've been swinging and missing since they tried to sign Rashard Lewis when he left the Sonics.
Rashard Lewis was a different story. Dallas had only MLE to sign him and came close to selling him on taking it. It's those times where Dallas offers the full max and players still won't consider Dallas really shows that free agents don't want to come here.


True, Lewis was a MLE player but it still shows that FA have been staying away from Dallas for years.

They honestly should look at teams like Portland, Orlando, Boston and the Wolves to a certain extent. Draft and groom a couple of high lotto picks. Obtain some other young assets through the draft and lower tier young FA's and look for an opportunity to trade for a better player.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#155 » by Prospect Dong » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:20 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
garrick wrote:That's the reality of small market teams that can't ever attract the superstar All stars to their teams.

The Suns have not had a major free agent sign with them in awhile and Nash was not considered a top tier FA when he resigned with the Suns.

Almost all their stars have come by way of trades or by drafts and for these small market teams the Lebrons, Durant's and Melos are not even going to remotely consider signing with a small market team like Dallas.


First I've heard that Dallas is a small market.... Dallas is a large market team with an owner who has been willing to spend huge money(only Knicks paid more in luxury tax).

And Nash was absolutely considered a top free agent. Other than Kobe who was never leaving LA, he was the #1 free agent available that year. Was he seen as the MVP candidate he became in Phoenix? No. But this was an all-NBA PG. People knew he was freaking good at basketball.


He was good, but he didn't even get the max from Phoenix, who outbid Dallas. People were worried about his age...
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#156 » by JazzUte88 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:09 am

2011Champs wrote:
UtahJazzFan88 wrote:The only non small-market teams are the Lakers, Knicks, Bulls, perhaps Celtics.

Boston is ranked 10th in metro population. Still a smaller market than Dallas.

NYC
La
Chicago
Dallas
Houston
DC
Philadelphia
Miami
Atlanta
Boston
San Francisco
Phoenix

In that order are the top metro areas in the USA. My opinion is that much of the population of Dallas, Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix is that much of the population is transplanted from other parts of the USA and there are not as many deeply rooted life long fans of those teams as say Boston or Philly. This may cause big market teams to have smaller fan bases similar to smaller market teams.[/quote

I was more going on that culture, history, banners, fan support has more to do with it than market.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#157 » by qm22 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:44 am

UtahJazzFan88 wrote:
2011Champs wrote:
UtahJazzFan88 wrote:The only non small-market teams are the Lakers, Knicks, Bulls, perhaps Celtics.

Boston is ranked 10th in metro population. Still a smaller market than Dallas.

NYC
La
Chicago
Dallas
Houston
DC
Philadelphia
Miami
Atlanta
Boston
San Francisco
Phoenix

In that order are the top metro areas in the USA. My opinion is that much of the population of Dallas, Houston, Atlanta and Phoenix is that much of the population is transplanted from other parts of the USA and there are not as many deeply rooted life long fans of those teams as say Boston or Philly. This may cause big market teams to have smaller fan bases similar to smaller market teams.[/quote

I was more going on that culture, history, banners, fan support has more to do with it than market.


Exactly. There are a lot of myths about desirable FA choices that only exist in the minds of fans. Boston is really one of those places. I don't mean it as a knock. Boston is a coastal place which is home to Harvard, MIT, others, and heaps of large and small tech companies that surround them, and the weather and culture surrounding it is very middle America.
For some NBA fans, they may think it is cool because of its history and success, though to many the past is simply the past. (Also from what I can see, few of their great players remain associated with them).

Where any of that is relevant for a NBA free agent I don't know. Right now they have an up and coming team that is suitable for someone wanting to play for a potential winner. But the money is probably going to be the top pull, like with most everywhere else.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#158 » by King4Day » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:45 pm

Why play for an aging star.
He should understand how this works by now. Dallas isn't Cali or NY.

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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#159 » by WD » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:34 pm

With a Billionaire owner and nice locker rooms, I didn't think it would be as hard.
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Re: Dirk voices his frustration with Mavs' inability to land top free agents 

Post#160 » by DET_Athletics » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:44 pm

dirk isnt going to leave, thats why they should trade him to a contender for his sake, and stop B-S'ing the rebuild.

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