Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive?

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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#21 » by NewWolvesOrder » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:12 pm

BallinSon wrote:
He's fun to watch play ball, you can't deny that. He gives it all he's got on both ends of the floor and his offensive game is refined and pretty.


When he tries to pass the ball I usually cringe or roll my eyes back. So it's not all fun. But his effort is there, no doubt.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#22 » by NewWolvesOrder » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:25 pm

BallinSon wrote:
NewWolvesOrder wrote:Dude is dead last in RPM among SFs in NBA. Wolves are handily outscored when he's on the floor. But he can fit a role of an energy scorer on the right team.


And Lavine would be just ahead of James Anderson and JaKarr Sampson at the bottom of the SG list if the guys at ESPN who made up these mesmerizing numbers didn't call him a PG.

Ain't them numbers just a tool for the fantasy gamblers anyway?



The numbers show that he had a lot of **** players. Our lottery ranking is there to prove it.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#23 » by Zombiesonics » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:25 pm

DusterBuster wrote:The star level dream is dead imo.

That said, I'd be interested to see him on a team like the Nets where he would be the featured player on offense.


think it died during his one year in college, i just vividly remember him sulking after his teammate hit a game winner (larry drew?). befittingly, he is a serious ball hog in the nba whenever he touches the rock as that one wolves fan noted. Nothing worst than a guy who blows 3v2 breaks for contested layups
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#24 » by BallinSon » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:34 pm

Golabki wrote:
BallinSon wrote:
NewWolvesOrder wrote:Dude is dead last in RPM among SFs in NBA. Wolves are handily outscored when he's on the floor. But he can fit a role of an energy scorer on the right team.


And Lavine would be just ahead of James Anderson and JaKarr Sampson at the bottom of the SG list if the guys at ESPN who made up these mesmerizing numbers didn't call him a PG.

Ain't those numbers just a tool for the fantasy gamblers anyway?

Golabki wrote:The dream of him being a star is most certainly over. The dream of him being a decent rotation player is still alive, but after last year he's at risk of being out of the league in three years.



He's fun to watch play ball, you can't deny that. He gives it all he's got on both ends of the floor and his offensive game is refined and pretty.

I don't think he gives much at the defensive end... if he's one-on-one against a guy with the ball in his hands he'll hold is own, but off ball he's clueless. Arguably that a coaching issue that Thibs will fix, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Offensively he's got the skills of a go-to scorer, but he's just not good enough to play that way in any good offense.

Right now he is a flat out bad... but if he can get on the floor for a Thibs coached team I'll change my tune.


The T-Wolves switched on every screen set which led to a lot of confusion for the whole team on defense. There were countless times this year when Bazzy left his man in the corner or on the block to close out a wide open shooter on the perimeter. Two years ago it did seem like he got caught ball gawking and flat footed off the ball losing his man for back doors a lot, but I can't remember seeing it at all this last season. He made a concerted effort last off-season to improve on defense and it showed this year. I disagree that he doesn't give much on defense.

I agree he has the offensive skills to be the primary option. He's great at moving off the ball and would put up a lot of easy points in a good motion offense. The Spurs have this one play where Kawhi ends up isolated in the low post and he scores every time. Could you imagine Bazzy with a few sets like that?

I disagree that he is flat out bad. I think he's flat out good.


NewWolvesOrder wrote:
BallinSon wrote:
He's fun to watch play ball, you can't deny that. He gives it all he's got on both ends of the floor and his offensive game is refined and pretty.


When he tries to pass the ball I usually cringe or roll my eyes back. So it's not all fun. But his effort is there, no doubt.


When Zach Lavine dribbles at the top of the key for 15 seconds and shoots a contested fade-away, I cringe. Even on the eighth try when it finally goes in, I cringe.

When Big KAT stands on the perimeter and his man is begging him to take it and he does and it actually goes in and he runs down the floor doing hand signs while dancing, I cringe. That makes me cringe every time and it's not fun.


Zombiesonics wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:The star level dream is dead imo.

That said, I'd be interested to see him on a team like the Nets where he would be the featured player on offense.


think it died during his one year in college, i just vividly remember him sulking after his teammate hit a game winner (larry drew?). befittingly, he is a serious ball hog in the nba whenever he touches the rock as that one wolves fan noted. Nothing worst than a guy who blows 3v2 breaks for contested layups


The word you're looking for is 'worse'. Nothing WORSE than a guy who blows 3v2 breaks.

You gotta admit though, he draws a lot of fouls on them contested layups the way he bulls into his man. And more often than not he gets the bucket.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#25 » by HotelVitale » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:47 pm

KidPistol wrote:He's improved A LOT since then as one of the most formidable bench players in the league to a point where at a time he had a top 4 PER in the league for some time.

Seems like you missed all of last season and are talking about the couple months he played in his 2nd season. Last year, his third season, he was a -4.2 BPM guy and a -.9 VORP player. His PER isn't terrible (15.1) because he's a volume shooter and PER rewards taking up possessions but no other stat likes him at all. The stats see him as a junk defender and selfish gunner with tunnel vision, who's also not particularly efficient (below league average TS%).

That said, I like watching him--he's really aggressive looking for his shot, backs his guy down, spins back and forth, looks for a little space to lean in or else launches a fadeaway. He'd be an awesome contestant in a one-on-one tournament. But it's unclear what his path to being a good team contributor is now: he really can't pass or defend, and he's not credible long-range threat, so his best bet seems to be mastering his bench gunner role and getting his efficiency up.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#26 » by saintEscaton » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:58 pm

The TJ Warren dream has yet to begin
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#27 » by Zombiesonics » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:59 pm

BallinSon wrote:The word you're looking for is 'worse'. Nothing WORSE than a guy who blows 3v2 breaks.

You gotta admit though, he draws a lot of fouls on them contested layups the way he bulls into his man. And more often than not he gets the bucket.


before turning into a grammar nazi , you should probably review your own posts. this is an internet forum lighten up francis.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#28 » by LakersLegacy » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:09 pm

Please trade him to the Lakers. He needs a coach like Luke to utilize his talents. He will get barried on the bench by Thibbs.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#29 » by NewWolvesOrder » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:23 pm

LakersLegacy wrote:Please trade him to the Lakers. He needs a coach like Luke to utilize his talents. He will get barried on the bench by Thibbs.


Sure, just give us Nance :lol:
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#30 » by Foye » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:36 pm

The reasons why he won't be a star player can be named rather quick:

- Virtually no passing game, a whopping 1.1 assists per 36 min last season
- Ball handling is not exactly a strength either
- Not a good shooter
- Not a good defender

Combine all these weaknesses and you know he's never going to turn into a star player.

The pros why he can be a quality bench guy/average starter:
- Good body frame, can be used to play bully ball against most SF/SG's
- Can create solid looks for himself
- Good cutter, too
- Solid post up game
- High energy guy
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#31 » by BallinSon » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:37 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
KidPistol wrote:He's improved A LOT since then as one of the most formidable bench players in the league to a point where at a time he had a top 4 PER in the league for some time.

Seems like you missed all of last season and are talking about the couple months he played in his 2nd season. Last year, his third season, he was a -4.2 BPM guy and a -.9 VORP player. His PER isn't terrible (15.1) because he's a volume shooter and PER rewards taking up possessions but no other stat likes him at all. The stats see him as a junk defender and selfish gunner with tunnel vision, who's also not particularly efficient (below league average TS%).

That said, I like watching him--he's really aggressive looking for his shot, backs his guy down, spins back and forth, looks for a little space to lean in or else launches a fadeaway. He'd be an awesome contestant in a one-on-one tournament. But it's unclear what his path to being a good team contributor is now: he really can't pass or defend, and he's not credible long-range threat, so his best bet seems to be mastering his bench gunner role and getting his efficiency up.


Last season was a joke. They started Tayshaun Prince all year long saying they needed defense in the starting lineup because they were supposed to be a playoff team. Then they said they needed scoring but they sat Kevin Martin and Pekovic for the last half of the season when they weren't even injured. Lavine needs his development minutes, right? Martin came back and started one game, scored 38, then never played again. Pekovic played for a couple games and was the same old post presence he always was but never played again. Why not take Prince out and give Bazzy a chance at that starting role? They weren't headed for the playoffs at that point anyway.

Bazzy's role all along has been volume bench scorer and since he only gets to play with guys like Payne, Jones, Smith, and Rudez he is told by the coaching staff to be a 'selfish gunner'. PER favors volume scorers while BPM favors assists and threes, so you can use whichever stat for whatever point you want to prove. If he were playing with equal talent, especially veterans, I'd bet his style would adjust (he'd pass more) and his efficiency in all categories would increase.

It's hard to tell what his most fitting role will be when he hasn't been given a chance at anything other than 'bench scorer'.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#32 » by wablty » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:24 pm

Bazz wants to get buckets. Getting into the lane in transition or bullying smaller guards are his NBA skills and how he stays on the court. He has a niche. He'll be in the league for a long time, but he'll never be a star. Maybe, on the right team with the right coach in his ear, he can develop into a starter for a few years.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#33 » by XTC » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:47 pm

I could see him carving out a career similar to Bonzi Wells.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#34 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:54 pm

He definitely has a role. He needs to become a better shooter but he can be a good energy scorer off the bench. I havent watched much of him lately but I know he was an awful teammate in high school and college, still cant forget when UCLA won on a buzzer beater and he was pissed that he didnt get to take the shot. Didnt celebrate at all lol.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#35 » by TaylorTag » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:23 am

Duke4life831 wrote:He definitely has a role. He needs to become a better shooter but he can be a good energy scorer off the bench. I havent watched much of him lately but I know he was an awful teammate in high school and college, still cant forget when UCLA won on a buzzer beater and he was pissed that he didnt get to take the shot. Didnt celebrate at all lol.

Again, I think Bazz has shown he can be a good teammate in the NBA.. he's not selfish off the court. he looks genuinely happy when others do well around him on the court. he's a good teammate.

the only question i have about Bazz is his position and how he fits in the modern NBA
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#36 » by TheSunGod » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:42 am

It's already been said here but I definitely would like to see him on the Nets or even the 76ers.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#37 » by The_Hater » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:09 am

KidPistol wrote:During his high school days, scouts were comparing him to legends then he had a lackluster rookie season. He's improved A LOT since then as one of the most formidable bench players in the league to a point where at a time he had a top 4 PER in the league for some time. He's only 23 years old also.

What is the future for Muhammad?


Since high school ended he proved to be not nearly as good as advertised at UCLA, one year older than his listed age, and a selfish, one dimensional non-elite scorer at the NBA level. What you see now is basically exactly what he's ever going to be going forward.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#38 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:28 am

It's silly putting dreams on high school kids and labelling them disappointments when they don't meet your expectations based on someone else's opinion and/or youtube videos. Sorry, I'm reading moneyball at the moment and that's a major theme of the book :P.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#39 » by Klomp » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:46 pm

Most of the offseason, I've gotten the impression that he'll sign a major offer sheet next summer and Minnesota probably won't match. I didn't think Thibs would be high on him because he's a poor shooter and a suspect defender.

However, Thibs was surprisingly upbeat when he mentioned Bazz last night during his interview at summer league. If he's happy with his role here and the staff shows they want him here, maybe they'd keep him around after all and try to sign him to a bargain extension before Oct 31.
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Re: Is the Shabazz Muhammad dream still alive? 

Post#40 » by Klomp » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:50 pm

BallinSon wrote:Last season was a joke. They started Tayshaun Prince all year long saying they needed defense in the starting lineup because they were supposed to be a playoff team. Then they said they needed scoring but they sat Kevin Martin and Pekovic for the last half of the season when they weren't even injured.

Kinda hard to play a guy who isn't even on the roster. I don't think that's allowed in the CBA.
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