Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving?

Moderators: Domejandro, infinite11285, Harry Garris, ken6199, Dirk, bisme37, KingDavid, bwgood77, zimpy27, cupcakesnake

Statlanta
RealGM
Posts: 12,415
And1: 9,058
Joined: Mar 06, 2016

Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#1 » by Statlanta » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:08 am

This week marks the anniversary of prime Shaq leaving so I've had some thinking in my mind. I watched the Magic 30 for 30 and got an idea on how bad Shaq leaving my team was then I looked at the suprising free agency landscape this year. Watching Shaq's situation and seeing Wade leave just showed to me the growing pains of young organizations in keeping and maintaining stars on their teams. We know losing a player is bad but is it worse losing a prime future stud or a guy who's carried the franchise forever and is leading in about almost every statistical category(not to mention championship success)? Do star free agents think losing a star is worse as losing a guy can mean a team can't create a environment to suit a star or do they think losing a veteran is worse due to not being able to improve the environment if one stays especially for a person who has given the organization everything?

TLDR
What's more impactful prime free agent leaving(Shaq) or end prime face of a franchise Dwyane Wade?

Bonus: rank these 3 in terms of impact on a team

Shaq leaving
Durant leaving
Wade leaving
East #1 Draft Picks: Fultz, Banchero, Wiggins, Cuninigham
West #1 Draft Picks: Edwards, WIlliamson, Ayton, Towns
User avatar
Joao Saraiva
RealGM
Posts: 12,999
And1: 5,801
Joined: Feb 09, 2011
   

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#2 » by Joao Saraiva » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:21 am

Wade leaving is not a bad thing. He already gave the Heat a ton of success and it accelerates the rebuilding mode. The Heat were not going anywhere with Wade. Guys like KD or Shaq leaving, basically makes your franchise go into rebuild mode again after not getting the job done, and landing such talent will not be easy.

There are teams that haven't had a player like that in 20 years, so that gives an idea on how hard they're to find. Even harder than a rare pokemon.
“These guys have been criticized the last few years for not getting to where we’re going, but I’ve always said that the most important thing in sports is to keep trying. Let this be an example of what it means to say it’s never over.” - Jerry Sloan
User avatar
Kabookalu
RealGM
Posts: 63,103
And1: 70,114
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Location: Long Beach, California

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#3 » by Kabookalu » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:48 pm

Both suck, but what would draw the ire of fans the most? Without a doubt it's your superstar leaving. With a star in his prime you're one of the few teams in the league capable of contending. With a franchise player that's been with you from the start that can't carry you the way he did ten years prior, you have the chance of cementing a legacy.

As a fan, in that very moment, what matters to you more?
Read on Twitter
dautjazz
RealGM
Posts: 14,858
And1: 9,558
Joined: Aug 01, 2001
Location: Miami, FL
 

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#4 » by dautjazz » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:08 pm

Shaq, Durant, then Wade. This is Shaq by far, he DOMINATED the way Durant and Wade could only dream of, and the Magic were never the same.
NickAnderson wrote:
How old are you, just curious.

by gomeziee on 21 Jul 2013 00:53

im 20, and i did grow up watching MJ play in the 90's.
YogurtProducer
RealGM
Posts: 24,116
And1: 26,744
Joined: Jul 22, 2013
Location: Saskatchewan
       

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#5 » by YogurtProducer » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:42 pm

Wade leaving won't hurt Miami much like Paul Pierce leaving hadn't hurt the Celtics. Even without the Brooklyn picks the C's would be better off agterPierce and KG left.

Prime star is way worse.. Not sure how this is even a question
What an absolute failure and disaster this franchise is, ran by one of the most incompetent front offices in the league.
- Raptors RealGM Forum re: Masai Ujiri - June 2023
HeatFanSince87
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,966
And1: 758
Joined: Mar 13, 2002
Location: Miami

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#6 » by HeatFanSince87 » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:43 pm

Star prime player of course.

Wade is more emotional for heat fans then actual results at this point.

Losing Shaq for Orlando was awful. They would have multiple championship had he stayed.. At least 1-2.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
User avatar
Jonatton Yeah
Veteran
Posts: 2,609
And1: 4,062
Joined: Dec 11, 2012
Location: Sugar Ape

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#7 » by Jonatton Yeah » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:45 pm

Given the preposterous reaction on here to KD leaving OKC, if Shaq left ORL in today's outrage era somebody would have quite literally burned his house down.
That's hilarious and co
User avatar
Birth of the Cool
Analyst
Posts: 3,070
And1: 1,446
Joined: Dec 23, 2005

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#8 » by Birth of the Cool » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:51 pm

How is this a question. Clearly a prime star bolting is much more devastating for a franchise. When a legendary vet leaves it kinda stings but their best days are behind them and many people can say well he left to go on a team more able to get a Championship or to get a last big pay day and no one would blink. A prime star leaving means a Franchise and fanbase just lost out on years of seeing someone great play for them, bring in free agents who want to play with the star, losing the eyes of NBA fans to their franchise, likely losing more games, etc.
MrBaynes
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,359
And1: 1,863
Joined: May 09, 2015
Location: Las Vegas, NV
         

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#9 » by MrBaynes » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:53 pm

Although we all want to say the emotional answer, that the long-time veteran who has brought success to a franchise is more devastating, it is clearly the prime star leaving. An aged legendary veteran leaving can be a blessing in disguise, saving cap space for the franchise to pursue younger more effective talent. When Wade is 36 in 2 years, averaging 14ppg on low efficiency Heat fans will not be too irritated they are saving $27 million or so that season.
User avatar
bape_lovers
RealGM
Posts: 22,867
And1: 17,861
Joined: Oct 28, 2010
Location: 6ix side
 

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#10 » by bape_lovers » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:07 pm

Image

Joao Saraiva wrote:Wade leaving is not a bad thing. He already gave the Heat a ton of success and it accelerates the rebuilding mode. The Heat were not going anywhere with Wade. Guys like KD or Shaq leaving, basically makes your franchise go into rebuild mode again after not getting the job done, and landing such talent will not be easy.

There are teams that haven't had a player like that in 20 years, so that gives an idea on how hard they're to find. Even harder than a rare pokemon.
Image

Credit to JaysRule, Detective
User avatar
KnicksGadfly
RealGM
Posts: 14,615
And1: 13,517
Joined: Jul 29, 2007
   

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#11 » by KnicksGadfly » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:17 pm

Jonatton Yeah wrote:Given the preposterous reaction on here to KD leaving OKC, if Shaq left ORL in today's outrage era somebody would have quite literally burned his house down.


Yah... if he left to join the Warriors, I'd definitely be way more pissed, but maybe that just speaks to Shaq's dominance. Then again, I think he would have demanded a trade after a while. The guy didn't exactly get along with Kobe.
improper
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,521
And1: 4,405
Joined: May 23, 2014
     

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#12 » by improper » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:20 pm

How is this even a question? A prime star leaving unquestionably hurts your team more than an old veteran leaving. A legendary vet leaving might not be the best look for your franchise, but losing a star in his prime can take you from contention to irrelevance overnight.
PDX MM
Veteran
Posts: 2,767
And1: 959
Joined: Apr 27, 2010
Location: Hillsboro Oregon
   

Re: Worse for a team: A prime star bolting or a legendary veteran leaving? 

Post#13 » by PDX MM » Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:28 pm

I didn't think it was such a bad thing when we traded Drexler to Houston since he had given us so much and it was great to see him finally win there. However the other part of the question is certainly harder to take as a fan. Now these guys didn't bolt per FA as one would think but when we lost Brandon Roy and Greg Oden to injury it was just heart crushing. I think it is simply impossible as a fan to not get your hopes up when you land studs like them and that is why it can hurt so much when it falls apart and they leave. Now if it were to lose one to FA there is also the anger that comes with it, the feeling of betrayal is hard to avoid if you invest yourself enough. Some take it better than others.

Team dynamics plays a big part as to how it affects a team when you lose someone like that. When Drexler left we were in a rebuild/retool mode. Roy and Oden were lost after a rebuild with a team on the rise which was a big setback. All about timing I guess.

Return to The General Board