Have the Portland Trailblazers Limited Their Ceiling for Foreseeable Future with the Big Signings?

[Rockmaninoff]

What's wrong with being a playoff team with a ton of depth while waiting for an advantageous trade?

I don't think their owner will allow a multi year tank at this point, so what are they supposed to do?

What depth? What advantageous trades? They don't have much besides Lillard tbh

?

They've got 10 or so guys that can give quality NBA minutes. And they're all relatively young, so there could be a good growth.

Advantageous trade is having good pieces for a quantity for quality trade. Likelihood of it happening probably isn't high, but they've positioned themselves for it.

[Throwback24]

What's wrong with being a playoff team with a ton of depth while waiting for an advantageous trade?

I don't think their owner will allow a multi year tank at this point, so what are they supposed to do?

What depth? What advantageous trades? They don't have much besides Lillard tbh

?

They've got 10 or so guys that can give quality NBA minutes. And they're all relatively young, so there could be a good growth.

Advantageous trade is having good pieces for a quantity for quality trade. Likelihood of it happening probably isn't high, but they've positioned themselves for it.

Boston can't sell their trash to willing suitors, I highly doubt Portland could unless Crabbe and company come in looking like completely different players.

Although the players they do have fit in their system and they are young. At the end of the day I feel the players have more value to Portland than anyone else in the league.

[Freefloater]

Lilliard's and McCollum's game overlap too much, and they lack too much size defensively in the backcourt. I see McCollum being traded for a bigger swingman. Don't get me the wrong, the Blazers did the right thing be resigning him, and they remain a good team with him there, but if they can get a return that nets them a big 2-3 type player, they will bite for sure and be much better for it.

who do you think that player could be? Butler perhaps?

btw blazers are so fun to watch i am a rockets fan i but i adore to watch blazers play....beautiful and smart basketball... also they beat clippers(3 x allstars/all nba players) in PO and almost beat warriors(led most of the time in the series)....i trust terry stotts will make them contenders this year...

Did you not watch the series or check the news about it? Paul and Griffin both went down half way through game 4, I thought everyone was aware of this.

You beat who is in front of you, so Portland did what they had to, but they didn't beat the Clippers team that was playing all season. They beat a team starting Austin Rivers JJ Redick and Jamal Crawford at the 1-3.

injuries are part of the game warriors won the championship meeting only with hurt opponents....
and the series was fairly close with them both playing... it was 2:1 and blazers led in game 4
on the other hand cp3 and blake are more or less always injured...its really rare for them to stay healthy so yes they beat that clippers team with 3 allstar/nba players


staying healthy is a skill and part of the game

[Downtown]

This summer was the second in a row where Portland tried to land high end free agents and couldn't. I think that pushed them in the direction they went with doing whatever it took to retain their own free agents.

One can certainly argue that they overpaid for that but they did keep them all other than Kaman and Henderson, both of whom knew they weren't going to be back. It was also obvious that defence was a shortcoming so they were able to sign Turner and Ezeli, both of which are an upgrade to Henderson and Ezeli. Plus Turner offers more versatility than Henderson.

Sure they overachieved and stayed exceptionally healthy, both of which contributed to last season's success, but they also developed an identity of being a very aggressive team that plays hard to the final whistle and never makes it easy on other teams despite the score, and I think they want to not only maintain that but enhance it so with their age grouping they can grow for the next three to four seasons with that system of play.

The subject title is correct that they have limited themselves for the foreseeable future as far as making additional moves but I think their plan is to keep the status quo and improve as a team since they all bought into the coaches system and found success with it. And you can't argue with that except to say that like the vast majority of teams, they won't be serious title contenders.

[DusterBuster]

I see so many people **** on Portland for their offseason, but giving no real better alternatives for what they could have done instead. They'll never get impact FA's, so having cap space for that is pointless. They could have let their FA's walk, all of which played a significant role in last seasons surprising record. They let those guys walk, try and replace them, end up having to spend the first 2 months of the season figuring out how to play together again like they did last year and HOPE they have similar success.

I'm sorry, but what other realistic options did Portland have that is unquestionably better than what happened?

[UncleSpliffy]

Look, the Blazers made the moves that they had to make. They could not afford to lose any of the assets that they have been developing, so their hand was forced on Crabbe, Leonard, Harkless and McCollum. That said, let's be real, there are honestly only 3 teams that are legit championship contenders going into this season. The rest of the league is fighting for the scraps, with Portland towards the front of that line. What they are, going into this year is a very fun and entertaining team to watch, a team that plays with toughness and grit for the full 48 minutes. They run an excellent flowing offense and can put up a lot of points, and they have significant playoff experience even with such a young average age. They are a second round team that if they caught a couple breaks here and there, could rise up and maybe get to the WCF. Have they limited their ceiling? Maybe if you consider the ceiling to be a championship contender, but certainly not if the ceiling is an entertaining playoff team.

[matt6715]

I see so many people **** on Portland for their offseason, but giving no real better alternatives for what they could have done instead. They'll never get impact FA's, so having cap space for that is pointless. They could have let their FA's walk, all of which played a significant role in last seasons surprising record. They let those guys walk, try and replace them, end up having to spend the first 2 months of the season figuring out how to play together again like they did last year and HOPE they have similar success.

I'm sorry, but what other realistic options did Portland have that is unquestionably better than what happened?

I'll give the Blazers a Free Agency Participation Trophy if you want but that isn't going to make me think that they spent wisely regardless of the options.

[DusterBuster]

I see so many people **** on Portland for their offseason, but giving no real better alternatives for what they could have done instead. They'll never get impact FA's, so having cap space for that is pointless. They could have let their FA's walk, all of which played a significant role in last seasons surprising record. They let those guys walk, try and replace them, end up having to spend the first 2 months of the season figuring out how to play together again like they did last year and HOPE they have similar success.

I'm sorry, but what other realistic options did Portland have that is unquestionably better than what happened?

I'll give the Blazers a Free Agency Participation Trophy if you want but that isn't going to make me think that they spent wisely regardless of the options.

I'm not going to argue with the Turner and Crabbe contracts. With Turner, I don't know why he was given that much. With Crabbe, I wouldn't have matched it, but they didn't want to lose him for nothing and he brings an important role to the team with his shooting, which is at a premium in the league right now.

Again, you say they didn't spend their money wisely, how else should they have spent it considering they got spurned by nearly every FA they went after this summer?

It's seriously been like talking to Trump supporters on RealGM this summer.... "I think this thing sucks!" Ok, so how do you want to fix it? "Do a better job!"

[Roy The Natural]

Meh they have a lot of guys who aren't great talents but play well under their system, negative is that they spent so much money on retaining them. They had an option to let guys like Leonard/Harkless/Crabbe walk and not sign Turner to that huge contract so I think that was a mistake there. Lillard + CJ is a great starting point but they need more top end talent but they don't have the cap space anymore.

So they eventually wait out all these contracts or trade CJ + pieces for a slightly better player, but even that doesn't seem feasible. For example I don't think Portland can even get Jimmy Butler cuz they don't have enough raw talent to pair with CJ. So not sure what they can do from here. Okafor for CJ + pieces is the best trade I can think of to get to the next level possibly.

How much cap room would they have if they signed no one and didn't retain anyone?.... How many players would be on the roster? I'd say that Crabbe's top end potential is somewhere around RIP Hamilton, whether he'll get there is unknown.

[Takingbaconback]

Meh they have a lot of guys who aren't great talents but play well under their system, negative is that they spent so much money on retaining them. They had an option to let guys like Leonard/Harkless/Crabbe walk and not sign Turner to that huge contract so I think that was a mistake there. Lillard + CJ is a great starting point but they need more top end talent but they don't have the cap space anymore.

So they eventually wait out all these contracts or trade CJ + pieces for a slightly better player, but even that doesn't seem feasible. For example I don't think Portland can even get Jimmy Butler cuz they don't have enough raw talent to pair with CJ. So not sure what they can do from here. Okafor for CJ + pieces is the best trade I can think of to get to the next level possibly.

How much cap room would they have if they signed no one and didn't retain anyone?.... How many players would be on the roster? I'd say that Crabbe's top end potential is somewhere around RIP Hamilton, whether he'll get there is unknown.

I was thinking they could sign guys to shorter contracts instead. I don't get this "Oh what other options did we have" argument, they didn't have to sign those guys to long term deals. I do like Crabbe more than any of the guys I listed, I definitely don't agree with rip hamilton potential however. I see a better Webster for his top potential, which is pretty good.

Still I think the best case scenario for Blazers is Okafor for CJ + filler because I don't see a way they can make a jump now without the big bucks in FA and because the players don't have high trade value minus lillard and CJ. Pretty good risk to take on somebody who wouldn't be available if his team wasn't loaded with 5s.

[Edrees]

I remember everyone was saying the same about the warriors like 3 years ago. Nobody ever learns. Not saying that Portland is that good, but that's how you position yourself for success. Not everyone wants to tank.

[DusterBuster]

I remember everyone was saying the same about the warriors like 3 years ago. Nobody ever learns. Not saying that Portland is that good, but that's how you position yourself for success. Not everyone wants to tank.

Thank you for slightly restoring my faith in RealGM.....

[DusterBuster]

Meh they have a lot of guys who aren't great talents but play well under their system, negative is that they spent so much money on retaining them. They had an option to let guys like Leonard/Harkless/Crabbe walk and not sign Turner to that huge contract so I think that was a mistake there. Lillard + CJ is a great starting point but they need more top end talent but they don't have the cap space anymore.

So they eventually wait out all these contracts or trade CJ + pieces for a slightly better player, but even that doesn't seem feasible. For example I don't think Portland can even get Jimmy Butler cuz they don't have enough raw talent to pair with CJ. So not sure what they can do from here. Okafor for CJ + pieces is the best trade I can think of to get to the next level possibly.

How much cap room would they have if they signed no one and didn't retain anyone?.... How many players would be on the roster? I'd say that Crabbe's top end potential is somewhere around RIP Hamilton, whether he'll get there is unknown.

I was thinking they could sign guys to shorter contracts instead. I don't get this "Oh what other options did we have" argument, they didn't have to sign those guys to long term deals. I do like Crabbe more than any of the guys I listed, I definitely don't agree with rip hamilton potential however. I see a better Webster for his top potential, which is pretty good.

Still I think the best case scenario for Blazers is Okafor for CJ + filler because I don't see a way they can make a jump now without the big bucks in FA and because the players don't have high trade value minus lillard and CJ. Pretty good risk to take on somebody who wouldn't be available if his team wasn't loaded with 5s.

Is this real life?

Having big bucks in FA has never ONCE done the Blazers any good. All of their impact players they've ever aquired have come through trades and the draft. FA has been nothing but a **** for the TrailBlazers. Portland can't get big FAs, never have, never will.

[NBAfan3024]

I think in fairness they didn't or couldn't afford losing those guys for nothing and they see it as they can trade them if needed at a later date.

[og15]

who do you think that player could be? Butler perhaps?

btw blazers are so fun to watch i am a rockets fan i but i adore to watch blazers play....beautiful and smart basketball... also they beat clippers(3 x allstars/all nba players) in PO and almost beat warriors(led most of the time in the series)....i trust terry stotts will make them contenders this year...

Did you not watch the series or check the news about it? Paul and Griffin both went down half way through game 4, I thought everyone was aware of this.

You beat who is in front of you, so Portland did what they had to, but they didn't beat the Clippers team that was playing all season. They beat a team starting Austin Rivers JJ Redick and Jamal Crawford at the 1-3.

injuries are part of the game warriors won the championship meeting only with hurt opponents....
and the series was fairly close with them both playing... it was 2:1 and blazers led in game 4
on the other hand cp3 and blake are more or less always injured...its really rare for them to stay healthy so yes they beat that clippers team with 3 allstar/nba players


staying healthy is a skill and part of the game

Staying healthy is a skill? Sure, to some extent but come on, lol

Yea, Clippers up 2-1 and they were down 4 points at half and two points after the 3rd quarter, let's not get carried away here like they couldn't make up that incredibly massive 2 point deficit in a quarter if they had Paul and Griffin. Either way even if it ended up tied 2-2 they could win the next two games with Paul and Griffin, or sure 2 of the next three. This is a team the beat Memphis, GS and SA in the first round in previous seasons, come on.

It's intellectually dishonest to say they beat the Clippers "with 3 allstars / all nba players" and use that to suggest the level of team they are, knowing that they won 2.5 of the games with the Clippers two best overall players not even on the floor. It doesn't tell us anything.

[Johnny Bball]

Plenty of teams will have the cap space to trade for these contracts without giving much salary in return so there's more flexibility this season trade-wise. A trade is not needed imo, as it stands we have pretty good depth all-around. If our front court were healthy there would be a log-jam.

Plum/Ezeli/Leonard
Aminu/Davis/Vonleh
Crabbe/Harkless
3J/Turner
Lillard/Napier

The only thing that has been established is that the blazers are spending money and committed to go that extra step from the team that played well in the POFs last season.

This. They don't have any terrible contracts and no player they have is un-trade-able, or that you would have to add an asset to trade. They can ditch any of this newly added salary if needed quite easily.

[mtron929]

You're banking on the possibility that someone is going to become maybe as good as someone that's a two time All-NBA teamer in his first 4 seasons. You're banking on the possibility that someone will be better than a 21+ ppg scorer as a second option in his first season starting. What is potential lol? Lillard was supposed to be capped out as a rookie because he was a senior. McCollum was supposed to be a perennial sixth man, at best. Andrea Bargnani was supposed to revolutionize what it meant to be a big man.

Let's think about what it means to have 5 top 5 pick in a span of 2 years. I just randomly generated these numbers. So to recap, if the Blazers detonate their team and become the worst team in the NBA, these will be the types of players that they get after 2 years. And they will have all the capspace in the world as well

Case #1

2016: #1 and #5
2015: #4, #2, and #5

Ben Simmons, Kris Dunn, D'Angelo Russell, K. Porzingis, M. Hezonja

Verdict: very promising core. I would rather have these player than the current Blazers.

Case #2

2014: #1 and #3
2013: #2, #4, and #1

Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Cody Zeller

Depends on how Embiid turns out but this seems like a bust for the most part.

Case #3

2012: #3 and #4
2011: #4, #2, and #1

Bradley Beal, Dion Waiters, Kyrie Irving, Derrick Williams, Tristan Thompson

Seems like a push. Similar level talent to the current Blazers.

Case #4

2010: #1 and #3
2009: #5, #2, and #3

John Wall, Derrick Favors, H. Thabeet, James Harden, Ricky Rubio

Solid. The talent here is better than the current Blazers.

Case #5

2008: #2 and #4
2007: #2, #3, and #4

M. Beasley, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, Al Horford, Mike Conley

Pretty much a killer draft. Championship caliber team.

So you see, having bulk of top 5 draft picks (and it is possible for the Blazers) is a high risk but very high rewarding strategy, if they get lucky.

No, I don't think they should rebuild it that way.

But I do think they can let Crabbe go and not sign Turner while just sign Bayless and Henderson than spending 30+m per year on both Crabbe and Turner and still be competitive.

That extra cap space don't matter now. But it's my personal belief that DMC and AD will ask out at some point (most teams are sneaky enough not to talk about it), and when that happens I don't know if they'll have the cap room to lure them.

Well, it depends on what they want, right? I would agree that if they pretty much go on full tanking mode for 2 years and trade everyone, "on average" they would have a worse team than what they currently have. However, I would argue that due to high variance in the make-up of the team, it can be boom or bust. And I realize that collectively, boom or bust strategy is ridiculed not just on this forum but everywhere else outside the Hinkieland but the potential is definitely there.

That said, if the goal is to put out a good product on a yearly basis, then obviously, you shouldn't blow up the team as the Blazers can get to the playoffs on a pretty consistent basis with their current team.

[mtron929]

I would like to add that the boom/bust strategy is not only criticized by majority of the fans but it is also seen as morally repugnant by quite a number of people. This is incredibly weird to me but I guess it is what it is.

[Klomp]

I'm a little confused by what Portland did.

I have no problem with the McCollum extension. I don't even mind that they matched the Crabbe offer sheet. But the thing that confuses me is that they shelled out $43 million to Evan Turner, Festus Ezeli, Meyers Leonard and Moe Harkless. I understand it's a new era for contracts, but that seems excessive. And the signings put them right up against the luxury tax for this year.

[Freefloater]

Did you not watch the series or check the news about it? Paul and Griffin both went down half way through game 4, I thought everyone was aware of this.

You beat who is in front of you, so Portland did what they had to, but they didn't beat the Clippers team that was playing all season. They beat a team starting Austin Rivers JJ Redick and Jamal Crawford at the 1-3.

injuries are part of the game warriors won the championship meeting only with hurt opponents....
and the series was fairly close with them both playing... it was 2:1 and blazers led in game 4
on the other hand cp3 and blake are more or less always injured...its really rare for them to stay healthy so yes they beat that clippers team with 3 allstar/nba players


staying healthy is a skill and part of the game

Staying healthy is a skill? Sure, to some extent but come on, lol

Yea, Clippers up 2-1 and they were down 4 points at half and two points after the 3rd quarter, let's not get carried away here like they couldn't make up that incredibly massive 2 point deficit in a quarter if they had Paul and Griffin. Either way even if it ended up tied 2-2 they could win the next two games with Paul and Griffin, or sure 2 of the next three. This is a team the beat Memphis, GS and SA in the first round in previous seasons, come on.

It's intellectually dishonest to say they beat the Clippers "with 3 allstars / all nba players" and use that to suggest the level of team they are, knowing that they won 2.5 of the games with the Clippers two best overall players not even on the floor. It doesn't tell us anything.

Clips stars got injured because blazers forced them to an extraoridinary effort... its easier to stay away from injury if your opponent is offering no chalenge...

and its easier to get injured when you are giving 100% effort 100% of the time and are forced to play on the edge