how are the Clippers getting all these guys at the minimum?

[TinmanZBoy]

i watched a fair amount of Clippers games the last couple of seasons. The clippers has a fantastic starting 5, but once the bench came in, more often or not, the game became shaky the momentum changed, if their bench could hold their own, they basically blew out opponents...

[OkcSinceSGA]

i watched a fair amount of Clippers games the last couple of seasons. The clippers has a fantastic starting 5, but once the bench came in, more often or not, the game became shaky the momentum changed, if their bench could hold their own, they basically blew out opponents...

Yea this is the story of more like the last 3 years. Bench could lose a 15 point lead in a couple minutes often times. It was terrifying.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Luc basically took the Clippers from the 21st ranked defense, to the 2nd or 3rd best or so from the time he got here. He had a HUGE impact on the defense. He can't score worth a damn but as a Roberson OKC type role where he's a scrappy, versatile defender who rarely shoots he's okay. Pierce is straight up DONE. Wes Johnson believe it or not was fantastic defensively at times last year but had foot problems all year, so his offense went from really good early season, to falling off a cliff when he lost mobility. Luc/Wes is obviously not good, but when you're other 4 starters are this good, it's sufficient probably.

The Clips had the sixth/seventh best defensive efficiency through the season(finished sixth), befor that they had been in the early teens most years. On paper I cant really see how Luc had a huge impact, his defensive stats/overall efficiency aren't all that great.

It was a combination of adding Luc and the players adjusting to the new system of defending the pick and roll. Luc was a very consistent defensive player, he doesn't gamble, he doesn't miss many rotations, he does all the right things, and he's a very good one on one defender. It looked like he was making the defense better, but looks can be decieving, the good thing is that the numbers supported that thought.

Mbah a Moute became a starter in game 17.

Games 1-16: 103.0 Ortg, 19th in the league during that span, though of course a smaller sample

Games 17-82: 100.4 Ortg, 3rd in the league during that span

Clippers starters (Paul/Redick/Luc/Griffin/Jordan): 111.1 Ortg | 91.7 Drtg ranked 1st in Drtg among lineups that played 250+ minutes. They were also first in NetRtg. We only saw that lineup for 18 games, and Griffin was even recovering from injury in a decent amount of those, so pretty impressive. If you take it down to 200 minutes, they were 3rd in Drtg and still 1st in NetRtg.

Out of Clippers players who played significant minutes, Luc had the best on court Drtg

The offense was not so great because Blake was pretty terrible most games, and Redick of course had to get injured right before the playoffs, but out of all the lineups that played 40+ mins in the playoffs, the Clippers starters (Paul/Redick/Luc/Griffin/Jordan) had a 90.1 Drtg and were the 3rd best defensive lineup. If you bring it down to 30 mins, they are still 5th, and three of the lineups ahead of them are Miami lineups, so only two actual teams with lineups better that played 30+ minutes in the post-season. One thing this Clippers team was able to do last season that they haven't been able to do since their bench unit in 12-13 was win games on defense as opposed to always needing to peform well on offense to win.

Mbah a Moute owned the best defensive rating on the team during the regular season among Clippers who played at least 30 games. He also held opponents this season to just .469 points per possessions in isolation – the best mark in the NBA among players with at least 50 defensive possessions.

http://am570lasports.iheart.com/onair/clippers-hq-57507/luc-mbah-a-moutes-defensive-versatility-14632002/#ixzz4GK2CYq5R


Luc generally would guard the toughest opponent from SG to even PF depending on the team. Among players who played 35+ games, Luc had the greatest difference in FG% from opponents average to when contested by him. The difference was 9.5%, and he was 2.2% better than the next best player, Lebron. If it was just one of even two of these stats, there could be confounding factors, but with so many things supporting him, and the fact that we know he's stayed in the league due to his defense and has been known as a very good defender, I think we can say it is true.

Awesome post as usual OG. This is one example where metrics alone like DRTG etc can fail you until you dig a bit deeper. Austin Rivers has mediocre or bad defensive metrics too but anyone who watched the Clippers knows he was a plus defender most of the year. This is why to me Synergy has been such a God send to sports. You now don't get possessions mixed up as much as team players etc hurting or helping a player. It's individual, to specific spots on the floor, and specific situations.

[TinmanZBoy]

The Clips had the sixth/seventh best defensive efficiency through the season(finished sixth), befor that they had been in the early teens most years. On paper I cant really see how Luc had a huge impact, his defensive stats/overall efficiency aren't all that great.

It was a combination of adding Luc and the players adjusting to the new system of defending the pick and roll. Luc was a very consistent defensive player, he doesn't gamble, he doesn't miss many rotations, he does all the right things, and he's a very good one on one defender. It looked like he was making the defense better, but looks can be decieving, the good thing is that the numbers supported that thought.

Mbah a Moute became a starter in game 17.

Games 1-16: 103.0 Ortg, 19th in the league during that span, though of course a smaller sample

Games 17-82: 100.4 Ortg, 3rd in the league during that span

Clippers starters (Paul/Redick/Luc/Griffin/Jordan): 111.1 Ortg | 91.7 Drtg ranked 1st in Drtg among lineups that played 250+ minutes. They were also first in NetRtg. We only saw that lineup for 18 games, and Griffin was even recovering from injury in a decent amount of those, so pretty impressive. If you take it down to 200 minutes, they were 3rd in Drtg and still 1st in NetRtg.

Out of Clippers players who played significant minutes, Luc had the best on court Drtg

The offense was not so great because Blake was pretty terrible most games, and Redick of course had to get injured right before the playoffs, but out of all the lineups that played 40+ mins in the playoffs, the Clippers starters (Paul/Redick/Luc/Griffin/Jordan) had a 90.1 Drtg and were the 3rd best defensive lineup. If you bring it down to 30 mins, they are still 5th, and three of the lineups ahead of them are Miami lineups, so only two actual teams with lineups better that played 30+ minutes in the post-season. One thing this Clippers team was able to do last season that they haven't been able to do since their bench unit in 12-13 was win games on defense as opposed to always needing to peform well on offense to win.

Mbah a Moute owned the best defensive rating on the team during the regular season among Clippers who played at least 30 games. He also held opponents this season to just .469 points per possessions in isolation – the best mark in the NBA among players with at least 50 defensive possessions.

http://am570lasports.iheart.com/onair/clippers-hq-57507/luc-mbah-a-moutes-defensive-versatility-14632002/#ixzz4GK2CYq5R


Luc generally would guard the toughest opponent from SG to even PF depending on the team. Among players who played 35+ games, Luc had the greatest difference in FG% from opponents average to when contested by him. The difference was 9.5%, and he was 2.2% better than the next best player, Lebron. If it was just one of even two of these stats, there could be confounding factors, but with so many things supporting him, and the fact that we know he's stayed in the league due to his defense and has been known as a very good defender, I think we can say it is true.

Awesome post as usual OG. This is one example where metrics alone like DRTG etc can fail you until you dig a bit deeper. Austin Rivers has mediocre or bad defensive metrics too but anyone who watched the Clippers knows he was a plus defender most of the year. This is why to me Synergy has been such a God send to sports. You now don't get possessions mixed up as much as team players etc hurting or helping a player. It's individual, to specific spots on the floor, and specific situations.

austin rivers' stats are bad across the board.... how can a guy end up a net negative in both traditional and advanced stats in one of the best teams and played a lot minutes with starters too... to be honest, even his defense, mediocre at best, you guys just have a lot lousy perimeter defenders which made him look good...
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612746/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1
he gave efforts, worked hard on his game, he showed flashes of good potentials because he has the athleticism...but he lacks the feel of the game, this is something that probably will never change... his presence in the team will always limit the clippers' bench potential... I really don't understand how you guys are happy with him in your team with that big contract....what made it worse is the presence of Jamal,
Next season, JJ probably will leave, wait and see Doc will make his son a starter, let's see how that goes

furthermore, here is link for the 5-men lineup of clippers last season, minimum of 50 minutes together,
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612746/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*50&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season
there are 16 such lineups, 12 are net positive, 4 are net negative... Austin rivers are only in two net positive lineups, one is Crawford,Jamal - Johnson,Wesley - Jordan,DeAndre - Paul,Chris - Rivers,Austina, net +9.8, everybody knows who made the difference for that lineup, the other is Aldrich,Cole- Crawford,Jamal- Green,Jeff - Johnson,Wesley - Rivers,Austin with a net +1.0... He is in 3 of the 4 negative lineups, -7.2, -18.3, -29.9 respectively....
basically he can't run point at all, it was a disaster when he run the point for your team, and you guys think he is the 2nd point guard in your depth chart? you guys better hope Doc let Felton run the point next season... as a shooting guard, he is not good enough to stretch the floor, teams basically ignored him on the corner, one of the reasons that he explored on scoring for a couple of games... Austin is better when the ball is on his hands, he can use his handle and explosiveness to attack the rim... he finished better than his Pelican days but far from a reliable consistent option... overall, he is far from a consistent performer, and he is a net negative player in a damn good team... so It baffles me he got a few teams' interests this offseason...

[OkcSinceSGA]

It was a combination of adding Luc and the players adjusting to the new system of defending the pick and roll. Luc was a very consistent defensive player, he doesn't gamble, he doesn't miss many rotations, he does all the right things, and he's a very good one on one defender. It looked like he was making the defense better, but looks can be decieving, the good thing is that the numbers supported that thought.

Mbah a Moute became a starter in game 17.

Games 1-16: 103.0 Ortg, 19th in the league during that span, though of course a smaller sample

Games 17-82: 100.4 Ortg, 3rd in the league during that span

Clippers starters (Paul/Redick/Luc/Griffin/Jordan): 111.1 Ortg | 91.7 Drtg ranked 1st in Drtg among lineups that played 250+ minutes. They were also first in NetRtg. We only saw that lineup for 18 games, and Griffin was even recovering from injury in a decent amount of those, so pretty impressive. If you take it down to 200 minutes, they were 3rd in Drtg and still 1st in NetRtg.

Out of Clippers players who played significant minutes, Luc had the best on court Drtg

The offense was not so great because Blake was pretty terrible most games, and Redick of course had to get injured right before the playoffs, but out of all the lineups that played 40+ mins in the playoffs, the Clippers starters (Paul/Redick/Luc/Griffin/Jordan) had a 90.1 Drtg and were the 3rd best defensive lineup. If you bring it down to 30 mins, they are still 5th, and three of the lineups ahead of them are Miami lineups, so only two actual teams with lineups better that played 30+ minutes in the post-season. One thing this Clippers team was able to do last season that they haven't been able to do since their bench unit in 12-13 was win games on defense as opposed to always needing to peform well on offense to win.


http://am570lasports.iheart.com/onair/clippers-hq-57507/luc-mbah-a-moutes-defensive-versatility-14632002/#ixzz4GK2CYq5R


Luc generally would guard the toughest opponent from SG to even PF depending on the team. Among players who played 35+ games, Luc had the greatest difference in FG% from opponents average to when contested by him. The difference was 9.5%, and he was 2.2% better than the next best player, Lebron. If it was just one of even two of these stats, there could be confounding factors, but with so many things supporting him, and the fact that we know he's stayed in the league due to his defense and has been known as a very good defender, I think we can say it is true.

Awesome post as usual OG. This is one example where metrics alone like DRTG etc can fail you until you dig a bit deeper. Austin Rivers has mediocre or bad defensive metrics too but anyone who watched the Clippers knows he was a plus defender most of the year. This is why to me Synergy has been such a God send to sports. You now don't get possessions mixed up as much as team players etc hurting or helping a player. It's individual, to specific spots on the floor, and specific situations.

austin rivers' stats are bad across the board.... how can a guy end up a net negative in both traditional and advanced stats in one of the best teams and played a lot minutes with starters too... to be honest, even his defense, mediocre at best, you guys just have a lot lousy perimeter defenders which made him look good...
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612746/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1
he gave efforts, worked hard on his game, he showed flashes of good potentials because he has the athleticism...but he lacks the feel of the game, this is something that probably will never change... his presence in the team will always limit the clippers' bench potential... I really don't understand how you guys are happy with him in your team with that big contract....what made it worse is the presence of Jamal,
Next season, JJ probably will leave, wait and see Doc will make his son a starter, let's see how that goes

furthermore, here is link for the 5-men lineup of clippers last season, minimum of 50 minutes together,
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612746/lineups/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*50&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season
there are 16 such lineups, 12 are net positive, 4 are net negative... Austin rivers are only in two net positive lineups, one is Crawford,Jamal - Johnson,Wesley - Jordan,DeAndre - Paul,Chris - Rivers,Austina, net +9.8, everybody knows who made the difference for that lineup, the other is Aldrich,Cole- Crawford,Jamal- Green,Jeff - Johnson,Wesley - Rivers,Austin with a net +1.0... He is in 3 of the 4 negative lineups, -7.2, -18.3, -29.9 respectively....
basically he can't run point at all, it was a disaster when he run the point for your team, and you guys think he is the 2nd point guard in your depth chart? you guys better hope Doc let Felton run the point next season... as a shooting guard, he is not good enough to stretch the floor, teams basically ignored him on the corner, one of the reasons that he explored on scoring for a couple of games... Austin is better when the ball is on his hands, he can use his handle and explosiveness to attack the rim... he finished better than his Pelican days but far from a reliable consistent option... overall, he is far from a consistent performer, and he is a net negative player in a damn good team... so It baffles me he got a few teams' interests this offseason...

Rivers had elite ball handler PPP defense and man defense I think it was. He isn't a good help defender but if you need a guy to press full court he's one of the better ones last year. His PPP allowed on the ball handler last year was something like .70. Also Austin being in positive lineups would have more to do with the fact that he's one of the worst players on our team right? His offense is pretty damn bad. He's basically a specialist for us right now. Good at slashing to the rim, good at man defense. But on a positive note he's improving. He stepped up big in the playoffs the last two years and I believe in this kid. He just turned 24 yesterday.

I realize he will never be a starter, but he surely can become one of the better backup PG's in the league IMO. He's been working a ton on the midrange shot with Sam Cassell the last two summers. This is tangible too.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/riverau01.html

His shooting percentages from 10-16 and 16-23 have gone up literally 10 percent on average from his earlier seasons in New Orleans. FG% and TS% went up 4%. He's improving and only people that watch the Clippers often probably see his value. I realize he's not going to win us games very often. But what he's ALWAYS going to do is play his ass off and play hard on defense. Also one thing to note is his first two years in the league he was statistically THE worst player in the entire NBA. So him still checking out as a negative alone lacks a bit of context. He's definitely improving and is still really young.

Watch this clip.

Watch on YouTube

In this game he also locked up KD for multiple possessions.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Watch on YouTube

The game 6 vs Blazers was special. 90+ percent of NBA players would of left the game, not come back and killed it. This guy leaves it on the court every single game, even when he shoots like ****. If the rest of the Clippers had Austin's heart and motor, they would be the Warriors. Austin earned the respect of the media and much of the NBA after the playoffs. He's probably become my favorite Clipper TBH (I haven't thought about this for a while). Blake is my guy but Austin's effort, heart and toughness despite not being a good player make him the easiest to root for in my eyes. I hated him at first because of Doc being his dad and giving him preferential treatment. After seeing him growing up for the last two years though, I'm very, very happy the team inked him to 3 more.

I wish Blake had the junkyard dog mentality of Austin, he would be the best player in the NBA probably or close to.

[OkcSinceSGA]

I wish Blake Griffin attacked the rim like Austin Rivers (or like he did first 2 seasons or so). As of right now Rivers is pretty much the only guy on the team who is fearless going inside. He's a lot like Westbrook in that sense. He doesn't give a crap if he gets hit, he's going to try to dunk on you or finish with contact at the rim.

[TinmanZBoy]

^
you guys really overrated his defense. He has the quickness and athleticism though not elite, he gave efforts, and that's it... his defensive fundamentals are not good... nowadays, help defense probably is more important, 5 guys need to be able to defend on a string to counter the space/pace modern PnR offense...you guys have elite rim protections, that should help him a lot...

Have you seen any other player in the league who gets the benefit of doubts like Austin Rivers got...year after year, whatever situations, starting or coming off bench, always ended up a net negative... one gusty performance in the playoff erased all? If he were not Doc's son, he would have been a marginal NBA player right now... and you guys are still raving his importance for your team?

yeah, blake griffin should learn from Austin Rivers...lol..... Austin rivers has no feel of the game, Blake Griffin is an elite playmaker...

[OkcSinceSGA]

^
you guys really overrated his defense. He has the quickness and athleticism though not elite, he gave efforts, and that's it... his defensive fundamentals are not good... nowadays, help defense probably is more important, 5 guys need to be able to defend on a string to counter the space/pace modern PnR offense...you guys have elite rim protections, that should help him a lot...

Have you seen any other player in the league who gets the benefit of doubts like Austin Rivers got...year after year, whatever situations, starting or coming off bench, always ended up a net negative... one gusty performance in the playoff erased all? If he were not Doc's son, he would have been a marginal NBA player right now... and you guys are still raving his importance for your team?

yeah, blake griffin should learn from Austin Rivers...lol..... Austin rivers has no feel of the game, Blake Griffin is an elite playmaker...

Austin didn't really get the benefit of the doubt though. Most people I know considered him one of the worst players in the entire NBA, if not the worst in his Pelicans seasons. As a Clippers fan, we all acknowledge he gets favoritism and nobody calls him "good" or anything. The main argument from people who watch him 50+ games a year is that he isn't quite as bad as you'd think from metrics or the once in a while eye test even. It's not one gutsy performance. I already gave you tangible things such as 10+% better from both midrange areas, 4% better TS, improving defense across the board per Synergy etc. Also as the numbers show he steps up big in the playoffs both years here. He's gone from worst player in NBA stats to below average in 1.5 seasons as a Clipper and he just turned 24 yesterday. I don't see why over the next 2-3 years he can't become a good backup PG. If I was saying he was going to become a star or even starter, I'd understand the skepticism.

As for help defense being more important I think it totally depends on the position. I still think for non bigs man defense is more valuable personally, especially as a PG. I don't see why you'd place heavy significance on help D as a PG though. PG defense usually consists of full court press, ball pressure to force the other PG to get rid of the ball. Maybe for a wing help defense is more important, for a big rim defense. Also I didn't say Blake isn't obviously better at pretty much everything tangible. When it comes to heart and effort though Blake has fallen far behind his first 2 years and it's sad for me. I saw a rookie and 2nd year Blake that had an insane motor and fire. Who didn't back down from anything. Now I see a guy who has MVP talent but mentally checks out the second someone forces him out of his bully ball game and he will fire up jumper after jumper.

[TinmanZBoy]

^
you guys really overrated his defense. He has the quickness and athleticism though not elite, he gave efforts, and that's it... his defensive fundamentals are not good... nowadays, help defense probably is more important, 5 guys need to be able to defend on a string to counter the space/pace modern PnR offense...you guys have elite rim protections, that should help him a lot...

Have you seen any other player in the league who gets the benefit of doubts like Austin Rivers got...year after year, whatever situations, starting or coming off bench, always ended up a net negative... one gusty performance in the playoff erased all? If he were not Doc's son, he would have been a marginal NBA player right now... and you guys are still raving his importance for your team?

yeah, blake griffin should learn from Austin Rivers...lol..... Austin rivers has no feel of the game, Blake Griffin is an elite playmaker...

Austin didn't really get the benefit of the doubt though. Most people I know considered him one of the worst players in the entire NBA, if not the worst in his Pelicans seasons. As a Clippers fan, we all acknowledge he gets favoritism and nobody calls him "good" or anything. The main argument from people who watch him 50+ games a year is that he isn't quite as bad as you'd think from metrics or the once in a while eye test even. It's not one gutsy performance. I already gave you tangible things such as 10+% better from both midrange areas, 4% better TS, improving defense across the board per Synergy etc. Also as the numbers show he steps up big in the playoffs both years here. He's gone from worst player in NBA stats to below average in 1.5 seasons as a Clipper and he just turned 24 yesterday. I don't see why over the next 2-3 years he can't become a good backup PG. If I was saying he was going to become a star or even starter, I'd understand the skepticism.

As for help defense being more important I think it totally depends on the position. I still think for non bigs man defense is more valuable personally, especially as a PG. I don't see why you'd place heavy significance on help D as a PG though. PG defense usually consists of full court press, ball pressure to force the other PG to get rid of the ball. Maybe for a wing help defense is more important, for a big rim defense. Also I didn't say Blake isn't obviously better at pretty much everything tangible. When it comes to heart and effort though Blake has fallen far behind his first 2 years and it's sad for me. I saw a rookie and 2nd year Blake that had an insane motor and fire. Who didn't back down from anything. Now I see a guy who has MVP talent but mentally checks out the second someone forces him out of his bully ball game and he will fire up jumper after jumper.

I agree he probably is not as bad as his stats indicated... and the kid has drive, his cockiness does not bother me, i think that's a plus for him...it just baffles me you guys seem to think so highly of him and be content with him running your second unit... he can't run the point! he is bad at playmaking... at most he is a third guard that is redundant with Jamal... worst of all, you guys overpaid both and kept both...

[jbk1234]

They're going to miss Cole Aldrich, and their SF rotation is still pitiful. I wasn't impressed by their bench going into the season last year, and I'm not this year either.

I love the standard everyone has for a roster when it comes to the Clippers. They could be 3 deep everywhere but SF where they are still around league average players and all people notice is the SF, even though they still have an elite, top 3 starting 5. Jr Smith starts for you guys for example and could be a weak link compared to most other starting SG's. Or for GS the center position etc. Nobody has a team without a hole in the lineup.

The Cavs still have work to do on their roster but JR Smith is probably a top 15 SG (above average starter). I'm more worried about our back ups at the 1 & 5.

[SAKURABA216]

In my opinion they still have a huge hole at SF. Luc is much better off the bench as an energy guy and Pierce obviously isn't what he used to be. They need to consolidate some talent and get a good SF - if possible, otherwise, they did the best they could with the cards they were given.

edit-spelling

I agree completely. Their wing players are dreadful. They need to somehow package everyone except CP3/Reddick/Blake/DJ to somehow land Rudy Gay. I have watched a lot of Clippers basketball and their SF position has always been a position of weakness for them. Last year I thought they would actually turn things around with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green joining them at the position, but it was weak and inconsistent there as usual. Its a shame they couldn't land a decent wing player when they traded away Bledsoe, but got Dudley back in return.

[3Diamantidis]

Chris Paul/Austin Rivers/Raymond Felton
J.J. Reddick/Jamal Crawford/Alan Anderson
Luc Mbah a Moute/Wes Johnson/Paul Pierce
Blake Griffin/Brandon Bass/Brice Johnson
DeAndre Jordan/Marreese Speights/Diamond Stone

Good looking group, IMO.

Parsons instead of moute, pierce, anderson would have been great.
They wouldn't have that bench with such a signing but in order to get the championship(which is their only goal) you have to make a choice: Great starting 5 and a good bench is one way. That team is chosing another way: Good starting 5 and a great bench. I'm afraid that this way might be enough for the conference finals maybe but it ain't enough for the ring. Maybe i'm wrong but i feel that the starting 5 must be a killer one.

[OkcSinceSGA]

^
you guys really overrated his defense. He has the quickness and athleticism though not elite, he gave efforts, and that's it... his defensive fundamentals are not good... nowadays, help defense probably is more important, 5 guys need to be able to defend on a string to counter the space/pace modern PnR offense...you guys have elite rim protections, that should help him a lot...

Have you seen any other player in the league who gets the benefit of doubts like Austin Rivers got...year after year, whatever situations, starting or coming off bench, always ended up a net negative... one gusty performance in the playoff erased all? If he were not Doc's son, he would have been a marginal NBA player right now... and you guys are still raving his importance for your team?

yeah, blake griffin should learn from Austin Rivers...lol..... Austin rivers has no feel of the game, Blake Griffin is an elite playmaker...

Austin didn't really get the benefit of the doubt though. Most people I know considered him one of the worst players in the entire NBA, if not the worst in his Pelicans seasons. As a Clippers fan, we all acknowledge he gets favoritism and nobody calls him "good" or anything. The main argument from people who watch him 50+ games a year is that he isn't quite as bad as you'd think from metrics or the once in a while eye test even. It's not one gutsy performance. I already gave you tangible things such as 10+% better from both midrange areas, 4% better TS, improving defense across the board per Synergy etc. Also as the numbers show he steps up big in the playoffs both years here. He's gone from worst player in NBA stats to below average in 1.5 seasons as a Clipper and he just turned 24 yesterday. I don't see why over the next 2-3 years he can't become a good backup PG. If I was saying he was going to become a star or even starter, I'd understand the skepticism.

As for help defense being more important I think it totally depends on the position. I still think for non bigs man defense is more valuable personally, especially as a PG. I don't see why you'd place heavy significance on help D as a PG though. PG defense usually consists of full court press, ball pressure to force the other PG to get rid of the ball. Maybe for a wing help defense is more important, for a big rim defense. Also I didn't say Blake isn't obviously better at pretty much everything tangible. When it comes to heart and effort though Blake has fallen far behind his first 2 years and it's sad for me. I saw a rookie and 2nd year Blake that had an insane motor and fire. Who didn't back down from anything. Now I see a guy who has MVP talent but mentally checks out the second someone forces him out of his bully ball game and he will fire up jumper after jumper.

I agree he probably is not as bad as his stats indicated... and the kid has drive, his cockiness does not bother me, i think that's a plus for him...it just baffles me you guys seem to think so highly of him and be content with him running your second unit... he can't run the point! he is bad at playmaking... at most he is a third guard that is redundant with Jamal... worst of all, you guys overpaid both and kept both...

I think many of us would rather him be a backup 2 probably since as you said he's not a PG. Jamal should of been let go TBH and Felton/Rivers backup guards would of been a bit more balanced. Rivers wasn't overpaid for that bad man. 1 or 2 mill maybe, but Jamal who's 36 years old is getting like 14 mill a year, MUCH worse.

[og15]

^
you guys really overrated his defense. He has the quickness and athleticism though not elite, he gave efforts, and that's it... his defensive fundamentals are not good... nowadays, help defense probably is more important, 5 guys need to be able to defend on a string to counter the space/pace modern PnR offense...you guys have elite rim protections, that should help him a lot...

Have you seen any other player in the league who gets the benefit of doubts like Austin Rivers got...year after year, whatever situations, starting or coming off bench, always ended up a net negative... one gusty performance in the playoff erased all? If he were not Doc's son, he would have been a marginal NBA player right now... and you guys are still raving his importance for your team?

yeah, blake griffin should learn from Austin Rivers...lol..... Austin rivers has no feel of the game, Blake Griffin is an elite playmaker...

Austin didn't really get the benefit of the doubt though. Most people I know considered him one of the worst players in the entire NBA, if not the worst in his Pelicans seasons. As a Clippers fan, we all acknowledge he gets favoritism and nobody calls him "good" or anything. The main argument from people who watch him 50+ games a year is that he isn't quite as bad as you'd think from metrics or the once in a while eye test even. It's not one gutsy performance. I already gave you tangible things such as 10+% better from both midrange areas, 4% better TS, improving defense across the board per Synergy etc. Also as the numbers show he steps up big in the playoffs both years here. He's gone from worst player in NBA stats to below average in 1.5 seasons as a Clipper and he just turned 24 yesterday. I don't see why over the next 2-3 years he can't become a good backup PG. If I was saying he was going to become a star or even starter, I'd understand the skepticism.

As for help defense being more important I think it totally depends on the position. I still think for non bigs man defense is more valuable personally, especially as a PG. I don't see why you'd place heavy significance on help D as a PG though. PG defense usually consists of full court press, ball pressure to force the other PG to get rid of the ball. Maybe for a wing help defense is more important, for a big rim defense. Also I didn't say Blake isn't obviously better at pretty much everything tangible. When it comes to heart and effort though Blake has fallen far behind his first 2 years and it's sad for me. I saw a rookie and 2nd year Blake that had an insane motor and fire. Who didn't back down from anything. Now I see a guy who has MVP talent but mentally checks out the second someone forces him out of his bully ball game and he will fire up jumper after jumper.

I agree he probably is not as bad as his stats indicated... and the kid has drive, his cockiness does not bother me, i think that's a plus for him...it just baffles me you guys seem to think so highly of him and be content with him running your second unit... he can't run the point! he is bad at playmaking... at most he is a third guard that is redundant with Jamal... worst of all, you guys overpaid both and kept both...

Rivers should be a backup SG and Jamal Crawford should not have been re-signed, especially with Rivers back.

In my opinion they still have a huge hole at SF. Luc is much better off the bench as an energy guy and Pierce obviously isn't what he used to be. They need to consolidate some talent and get a good SF - if possible, otherwise, they did the best they could with the cards they were given.

edit-spelling

I agree completely. Their wing players are dreadful. They need to somehow package everyone except CP3/Reddick/Blake/DJ to somehow land Rudy Gay. I have watched a lot of Clippers basketball and their SF position has always been a position of weakness for them. Last year I thought they would actually turn things around with Paul Pierce and Jeff Green joining them at the position, but it was weak and inconsistent there as usual. Its a shame they couldn't land a decent wing player when they traded away Bledsoe, but got Dudley back in return.

Oyy, Rudy Gay...

[POTUS5]

Hmmm maybe if they show they can still ball & the clips do well, they'll be trade chips idk


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[TinmanZBoy]

your guys just need to hire a special education teacher to improve Wes Johnson's IQ a little bit, then you have a good 3&D SF

[OkcSinceSGA]

your guys just need to hire a special education teacher to improve Wes Johnson's IQ a little bit, then you have a good 3&D SF

Wes was having a really good year till he for planter fasitis or whatever in both feet. His mobility seemed crippled by it. His help defense continued to be great but his shooting consistency, cutting and man defense seemed affected a lot.I can't believe he's 29 now. I thought he was like 27.

[Wizop]

The only way I could earn the minimum in a year would be to hit the lottery. Is there anyone here faced with a choice to sit home, go to China, or take the minimum who would hesitate?

[Lost92Bricks]

Everybody thinks the SF position is the Clippers' main problem. That's not the reason they lose games.

They mainly lose because they let teams back in the game when Rivers and Crawford step on the floor and they're bricking every shot. The offense dies when their starters are on the bench.

That's the hole they need to fix. Getting a SF won't change **** (unless he's a star player).