Who "Sucks" Now, but Might be Decent Next Year?

[NaturalBuns]

I'd love to see a poll on that. Doubt many share that view.


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What are you basing this off of? Stats.. Go ahead

Pretty much everything? Adams is better and healthier. Len doesn't really have a debate.

Adams is defentitly more durable and more of a hustle big but I don't see anything that makes him more skilled. Len still has the higher ceiling IMO.

I guess will see this season no ibaka or KD.

[bondom34]

What are you basing this off of? Stats.. Go ahead

Pretty much everything? Adams is better and healthier. Len doesn't really have a debate.

Adams is defentitly more durable and more of a hustle big but I don't see anything that makes him more skilled. Len still has the higher ceiling IMO.

I guess will see this season no ibaka or KD.

He's never gotten looks because of either of those guys, everything is from Russ or putbacks. He's a better defender, better offensively, more durable, and similar age. There's not a reason to take Len.

Oh, and Moneytalks made the poll. Its not even a debate there either, literally everything backs it up.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1470852

[swisscheeseD]

Tim Frazier
Justin Holiday
Briante Weber

[Edrees]

Exum.

Also Pau Gasol. His numbers will be amazing in the spurs system

He was an all-star last year. I don't think that qualifies as "sucks"

I agree with you completely but others were saying he "sucks" and wont help the spurs so I'm pointing it out. All these people saying how the west got weaker this year, when in fact it's not much weaker because the Spurs actually got better. (Since Gasol is such a huge boost)

[NaturalBuns]

Pretty much everything? Adams is better and healthier. Len doesn't really have a debate.

Adams is defentitly more durable and more of a hustle big but I don't see anything that makes him more skilled. Len still has the higher ceiling IMO.

I guess will see this season no ibaka or KD.

He's never gotten looks because of either of those guys, everything is from Russ or putbacks. He's a better defender, better offensively, more durable, and similar age. There's not a reason to take Len.

Oh, and Moneytalks made the poll. Its not even a debate there either, literally everything backs it up.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1470852

Will see Im not sold on him being better.
I don't see how he's leaps ahead at all

Outside team success

[bondom34]

Adams is defentitly more durable and more of a hustle big but I don't see anything that makes him more skilled. Len still has the higher ceiling IMO.

I guess will see this season no ibaka or KD.

He's never gotten looks because of either of those guys, everything is from Russ or putbacks. He's a better defender, better offensively, more durable, and similar age. There's not a reason to take Len.

Oh, and Moneytalks made the poll. Its not even a debate there either, literally everything backs it up.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1470852

Will see Im not sold on him being better.
I don't see how he's leaps ahead at all

Outside team success

OK but literally everything is against this being true. There's not a single point of evidence Len is even close. Box score, RAPM, RPM, team success, defensive ability. Nothing.

[Kolkmania]

Exum.

Also Pau Gasol. His numbers will be amazing in the spurs system

He was an all-star last year. I don't think that qualifies as "sucks"

I agree with you completely but others were saying he "sucks" and wont help the spurs so I'm pointing it out. All these people saying how the west got weaker this year, when in fact it's not much weaker because the Spurs actually got better. (Since Gasol is such a huge boost)

Spurs were amazing with Duncan during regular season, they were outplayed by a more athletic team in the play offs. Adding Pau Gasol and David Lee isn't going to solve that problem.

[BadMofoPimp]

I would say either the Heats Josh Richardson or TJ Johnson being they will be getting more opportunities this next season. Especially, Josh Richardson. He is about to truly have a break out season.

[nomansland]

Since I've seen him called the "worst" player in basketball a couple of times, I'll just put Mudiay in here.

[BleedGreen1989]

People are continually naming players who are already solid rotational players lol.

[jbent87]

Not that I necessarily believe this but Nik Stauskas seems to be a candidate for this thread if he can make his open looks the bigman logjam/Ben Simmons presence should allow him.

[Edrees]

He was an all-star last year. I don't think that qualifies as "sucks"

I agree with you completely but others were saying he "sucks" and wont help the spurs so I'm pointing it out. All these people saying how the west got weaker this year, when in fact it's not much weaker because the Spurs actually got better. (Since Gasol is such a huge boost)

Spurs were amazing with Duncan during regular season, they were outplayed by a more athletic team in the play offs. Adding Pau Gasol and David Lee isn't going to solve that problem.

And hence my post in this thread. People think Pau Gasol isn't good enough to solve the problem, but I think he is. I guess he's already a rotation players so it's not a good pick, but eh I had to be different lol.

[Capn'O]

Noah Vonleh

[dc]

People are continually naming players who are already solid rotational players lol.

Yeah, LOL. The first three words of the title are "Who Sucks now...?"

A guy like Josh Richardson certainly doesn't suck. He had a very solid rookie season.

[SmashMouthRod]

Trey Burke will find some consistency this season. He will play a Nick Van Exel type role this season.

What does that mean?

He will play well. Knock down some triples as a scorer off the bench.

[theSkinny]

I feel we will be hearing a lot more about Boban this year.

[BJGOAT3]

He's never gotten looks because of either of those guys, everything is from Russ or putbacks. He's a better defender, better offensively, more durable, and similar age. There's not a reason to take Len.

Oh, and Moneytalks made the poll. Its not even a debate there either, literally everything backs it up.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1470852

Will see Im not sold on him being better.
I don't see how he's leaps ahead at all

Outside team success

OK but literally everything is against this being true. There's not a single point of evidence Len is even close. Box score, RAPM, RPM, team success, defensive ability. Nothing.

A less mature Len was given a much higher usage and offensive responsibility in much worse team last season. Both have very comparable career and last year per 36 stats so I wouldn't say box score is in Adams' favour.

I do agree that Adams is better but you're making it sound like he was better than a 8 ppg-7rpg guy last season. He had an amazing PO run, lets see him follow it up over the course of a whole season, because he has been pretty underwhelming in RS so far in his career.

[bondom34]

Will see Im not sold on him being better.
I don't see how he's leaps ahead at all

Outside team success

OK but literally everything is against this being true. There's not a single point of evidence Len is even close. Box score, RAPM, RPM, team success, defensive ability. Nothing.

A less mature Len was given a much higher usage and offensive responsibility in much worse team last season. Both have very comparable career and last year per 36 stats so I wouldn't say box score is in Adams' favour.

I do agree that Adams is better but you're making it sound like he was better than a 8 ppg-7rpg guy last season. He had an amazing PO run, lets see him follow it up over the course of a whole season, because he has been pretty underwhelming in RS so far in his career.

That was exactly how he played all season.

I have zero clue how you think he's underwhelming, he would be arguably top 3 in a redraft. He was top 5 among the entire NBA in DRAPM, anchored OKC's defense (D rating of 102 when he was on court...better than Gobert), ahead of Gobert in RPM, 12th among all centers in WAR, and was better defensively in the RS than the playoffs. So saying he had a great run is the opposite of true.

[BJGOAT3]

OK but literally everything is against this being true. There's not a single point of evidence Len is even close. Box score, RAPM, RPM, team success, defensive ability. Nothing.

A less mature Len was given a much higher usage and offensive responsibility in much worse team last season. Both have very comparable career and last year per 36 stats so I wouldn't say box score is in Adams' favour.

I do agree that Adams is better but you're making it sound like he was better than a 8 ppg-7rpg guy last season. He had an amazing PO run, lets see him follow it up over the course of a whole season, because he has been pretty underwhelming in RS so far in his career.

That was exactly how he played all season.

I have zero clue how you think he's underwhelming, he would be arguably top 3 in a redraft. He was top 5 among the entire NBA in DRAPM, anchored OKC's defense (D rating of 102 when he was on court...better than Gobert), ahead of Gobert in RPM, 12th among all centers in WAR, and was better defensively in the RS than the playoffs. So saying he had a great run is the opposite of true.

I don't see how a redraft position in one of the weaker drafts of the decade makes his season not underwhelming, he had been showing improvements his first two years but he didn't make a satisfying jump from his 2nd season to 3rd. He has been an average NBA center last season by any metric that I'm looking at. Amongst bigs that qualified for minutes&games, he finished the season 30th in DBPM, 14th in VORP, 16th in BPM, 16th in WS, 39th in DRTG and on top he had absolutely 0 offensive load. In POs, he actually showed up and performed in the other end of the court. Not to mention that he played against the two best teams in the PO's for 13 of his games, 7 of them against the best offence in the league so its natural that he has worse defensive stats for the POs. Doesn't mean that he performed worse, in fact he became OKC's 3rd most important player by a wide margin.

[bondom34]

A less mature Len was given a much higher usage and offensive responsibility in much worse team last season. Both have very comparable career and last year per 36 stats so I wouldn't say box score is in Adams' favour.

I do agree that Adams is better but you're making it sound like he was better than a 8 ppg-7rpg guy last season. He had an amazing PO run, lets see him follow it up over the course of a whole season, because he has been pretty underwhelming in RS so far in his career.

That was exactly how he played all season.

I have zero clue how you think he's underwhelming, he would be arguably top 3 in a redraft. He was top 5 among the entire NBA in DRAPM, anchored OKC's defense (D rating of 102 when he was on court...better than Gobert), ahead of Gobert in RPM, 12th among all centers in WAR, and was better defensively in the RS than the playoffs. So saying he had a great run is the opposite of true.

I don't see how a redraft position in one of the weaker drafts of the decade makes his season not underwhelming, he had been showing improvements his first two years but he didn't make a satisfying jump from his 2nd season to 3rd. He has been an average NBA center last season by any metric that I'm looking at. Amongst bigs that qualified for minutes&games, he finished the season 30th in DBPM, 14th in VORP, 16th in BPM, 16th in WS, 39th in DRTG and on top he had absolutely 0 offensive load. In POs, he actually showed up and performed in the other end of the court. Not to mention that he played against the two best teams in the PO's for 13 of his games, 7 of them against the best offence in the league so its natural that he has worse defensive stats for the POs. Doesn't mean that he performed worse, in fact he became OKC's 3rd most important player by a wide margin.

D rating is box score based, and isn't really showing anything of defensive ability. He made a massive jump last year by anyone who saw him, his offense improved, he was much more skilled, and you just listed a top 10ish center who's 22.

Using a box score to measure defense is relatively impossible.