Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets [Poll added]

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Who is the best upcoming team between these two?

Poll ended at Sat Mar 4, 2017 4:59 pm

Wolves
59
62%
Nuggets
36
38%
 
Total votes: 95

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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#221 » by HeartBreakKid » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:49 pm

Rubio9Guy wrote:People that thought the Nuggets would struggle more than the Wolves were really fooled on the hype.

Obviously long-term favors the Wolves be quite a bit, but the Nuggets have many more established pieces and have on year in Mike Malone's system (a guy I wanted the Wolves to hire after he was fired by Sac).

The Nuggets have a lot of good pieces and may need to look at trading for a disgruntled star at some point. Boogie? He loved Malone.


They certainly could trade for him, Jokic and some other decent guy or two which they have an abundance of could seal the deal for sure.




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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#222 » by Rubio9Guy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:41 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
Rubio9Guy wrote:People that thought the Nuggets would struggle more than the Wolves were really fooled on the hype.

Obviously long-term favors the Wolves be quite a bit, but the Nuggets have many more established pieces and have on year in Mike Malone's system (a guy I wanted the Wolves to hire after he was fired by Sac).

The Nuggets have a lot of good pieces and may need to look at trading for a disgruntled star at some point. Boogie? He loved Malone.


They certainly could trade for him, Jokic and some other decent guy or two which they have an abundance of could seal the deal for sure.

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Yeah I think that makes a lot of sense if they think they can keep Cousins long term.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#223 » by Rubio9Guy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:44 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Where's PHX on everyone's list? They have a lot of young guys with varying upsides and guys just entering their prime.

Bledsoe - 26 (will be 27)
Knight - 24 (will be 25)
Booker - 19 (will be 20)
Warren - 23
Len - 23
Chriss - 19
Bender - 18 (will be 19)

I'm sure I'm missing some. But that's a pretty decent core that could be competitive this year and a playoff staple down the line.


I just don't think anyone turns out to be a stud. People were so high on Booker last year and I like him, but Lavine's a better player (also a year older so that'd be a fair rebuttal).

I think they are in a similar position as Denver with fewer proven players.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#224 » by Klomp » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:04 pm

Rubio9Guy wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Where's PHX on everyone's list? They have a lot of young guys with varying upsides and guys just entering their prime.

Bledsoe - 26 (will be 27)
Knight - 24 (will be 25)
Booker - 19 (will be 20)
Warren - 23
Len - 23
Chriss - 19
Bender - 18 (will be 19)

I'm sure I'm missing some. But that's a pretty decent core that could be competitive this year and a playoff staple down the line.


I just don't think anyone turns out to be a stud. People were so high on Booker last year and I like him, but Lavine's a better player (also a year older so that'd be a fair rebuttal).

I think they are in a similar position as Denver with fewer proven players.

I pretty much agree with this. I believe Booker is a second or third option on a good team. And going forward, he will probably be asked to be the team's leader. I don't know if anyone else can be "the guy" from that list.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#225 » by Riko » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:49 pm

Rubio9Guy wrote:Yeah I think that makes a lot of sense if they think they can keep Cousins long term.


To be fair, with our current young, Cousins doesn't make any sense. But yes, we need to trade for an all-star even if it means give up 4-5 good young players (except Jokic).
If only Wade came here in last offseason, it wuold have been much easier...
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#226 » by mcmurphy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:50 pm

Riko wrote:
Rubio9Guy wrote:Yeah I think that makes a lot of sense if they think they can keep Cousins long term.


To be fair, with our current young, Cousins doesn't make any sense. But yes, we need to trade for an all-star even if it means give up 4-5 good young players (except Jokic).
If only Wade came here in last offseason, it wuold have been much easier...


Nurkic+Mudiay+1st for John Wall
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#227 » by Rubio9Guy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:22 pm

Riko wrote:
Rubio9Guy wrote:Yeah I think that makes a lot of sense if they think they can keep Cousins long term.


To be fair, with our current young, Cousins doesn't make any sense. But yes, we need to trade for an all-star even if it means give up 4-5 good young players (except Jokic).
If only Wade came here in last offseason, it wuold have been much easier...


Why not? I really like Jokic, but Cousins is a much better player right now. Jokic+Mudiay+something else for Cousins.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#228 » by Nuggets_Talk » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Rubio9Guy wrote:
Riko wrote:
Rubio9Guy wrote:Yeah I think that makes a lot of sense if they think they can keep Cousins long term.


To be fair, with our current young, Cousins doesn't make any sense. But yes, we need to trade for an all-star even if it means give up 4-5 good young players (except Jokic).
If only Wade came here in last offseason, it wuold have been much easier...


Why not? I really like Jokic, but Cousins is a much better player right now. Jokic+Mudiay+something else for Cousins.


I don't think Denver makes that deal
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#229 » by Rubio9Guy » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:57 pm

Nuggets_Talk wrote:
Rubio9Guy wrote:
Riko wrote:
To be fair, with our current young, Cousins doesn't make any sense. But yes, we need to trade for an all-star even if it means give up 4-5 good young players (except Jokic).
If only Wade came here in last offseason, it wuold have been much easier...


Why not? I really like Jokic, but Cousins is a much better player right now. Jokic+Mudiay+something else for Cousins.


I don't think Denver makes that deal


Maybe not. I think value wise that's pretty fair/generous for the Nuggets.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#230 » by Riko » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:04 pm

Rubio9Guy wrote:
Riko wrote:
Rubio9Guy wrote:Yeah I think that makes a lot of sense if they think they can keep Cousins long term.


To be fair, with our current young, Cousins doesn't make any sense. But yes, we need to trade for an all-star even if it means give up 4-5 good young players (except Jokic).
If only Wade came here in last offseason, it wuold have been much easier...


Why not? I really like Jokic, but Cousins is a much better player right now. Jokic+Mudiay+something else for Cousins.


First of all, I don't like Cousins.
Second, Jokic is 21 years old and earn 1.5 milion while Cousins is 26 and earn 16 milion (plus a max in 2017 so over 28 milion/year).
Third, even if Cousins is better right now, IMHO, when Denver will have a shot to a PO deep run Jokic will be better.


mcmurphy wrote:Nurkic+Mudiay+1st for John Wall

I'll do without the first or with Memphis' pick.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#231 » by Nuggets_Talk » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:11 am

Rubio9Guy wrote:
Nuggets_Talk wrote:
Rubio9Guy wrote:
Why not? I really like Jokic, but Cousins is a much better player right now. Jokic+Mudiay+something else for Cousins.


I don't think Denver makes that deal


Maybe not. I think value wise that's pretty fair/generous for the Nuggets.


clearly as we would be getting the best player by far. but it still isnt smart when you consider age, contracts, attitude, and cousins possibly bolting in 2 years.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#232 » by zimpy27 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:41 am

zimpy27 wrote:Teams under 23 years old:

Minnesota:
Guards - Dunn, LaVine, Jones
Forwards - Wiggins, Towns

Denver:
Guards - Mudiay, Murray, Beasley, Harris
Forwards - Hernangomez, Stokes, Jokic, Nurkic

You could scrap the salary of 3 older guys on both teams and both teams could take on 2 MAX players (still being under cap) except Denver would still be able to retain Gallo this year. That just highlights how cheap Denver has the list of quality young players you see here.

So Denver definitely has the best squad for the near future (next 3 years). The future beyond is less about quantity and more about the quality of the pieces, that means that beyond 3 years Minnesota will have better quality pieces with contracts.


Standing by this for now though Jokic could push Denver over the top in the distant future too.

This thread has some entertainment value.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#233 » by mihail_petkov » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:40 am

Jokic hype is enormous, but I think people are sleeping on Towns. Since new year:

Towns: 22 games in 38 mpg - 26.4 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 3.1 pf, 56.2% FG, 35% 3PT, 86% FT, 64% TS, 122 ORTG, 109 DRTG.
Jokic: 17 games in 30.5 mpg - 23.1 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 5.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.0 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 2.6 pf, 59.2% FG, 40.0% 3PT, 87% FT, 66% TS, 131 ORTG, 116 DRTG.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#234 » by HeartBreakKid » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:18 am

mihail_petkov wrote:Jokic hype is enormous, but I think people are sleeping on Towns. Since new year:

Towns: 22 games in 38 mpg - 26.4 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 3.1 pf, 56.2% FG, 35% 3PT, 86% FT, 64% TS, 122 ORTG, 109 DRTG.
Jokic: 17 games in 30.5 mpg - 23.1 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 5.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.0 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 2.6 pf, 59.2% FG, 40.0% 3PT, 87% FT, 66% TS, 131 ORTG, 116 DRTG.


Man, this kinda highlights how beastly jokic is. He arguably has better stats in nearly 8 less minutes of play.


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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#235 » by mcmurphy » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:20 am

Riko wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:Nurkic+Mudiay+1st for John Wall

I'll do without the first or with Memphis' pick.


jesus, when I proposed the trade Wizard was 12-15

I think at the time a trade Nurkic+Mudiay+1st 2017 Nuggets + 1st 2017(via Memphis) + 1st 2018 Nuggets for John Wall It would have been well accepted by wizard fans

A duo Wall-Jokic it would be great.


mihail_petkov wrote:Jokic hype is enormous, but I think people are sleeping on Towns. Since new year:

Towns: 22 games in 38 mpg - 26.4 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 3.1 pf, 56.2% FG, 35% 3PT, 86% FT, 64% TS, 122 ORTG, 109 DRTG.
Jokic: 17 games in 30.5 mpg - 23.1 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 5.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.0 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 2.6 pf, 59.2% FG, 40.0% 3PT, 87% FT, 66% TS, 131 ORTG, 116 DRTG.


little correction
Jokic: 18 games in 30.5 mpg - 22.7 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 5.6 apg,1.0 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 2.6 pf, 59.4% FG, 40.0% 3PT, 86% FT, 66% TS, 27.3% USG, 122.6 ORTG, 115.4 DRTG, +7.2 DiffRtg (Team since 1 Jan, 114.2/113.9/+0.3)

Jokic on the floor bring a boost of +6.9 DiffRtg of performance team.

Towns: 22 games in 38 mpg - 26.4 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 3.1 pf, 56.2% FG, 35% 3PT, 86% FT, 64% TS, 110.9 ORTG, 110.5 DRTG, +0.4 DiffRtg (Team since 1 Jan, 108/108.5/-0.5)

Towns on the floor bring a boost of +0.9 DiffRtg of performance team.

Big difference.

Data from stats.nba.com.

edit:

for completeness when Jokic and Towns are OFF the floor:

Denver 105 ORTG, 112.1 DRTG, DiffRtg= -7.1
Towns 96.8 ORTG, 101 DRTG, DiffRtg= -4.2

Towns bring Minnesota from -4.2 to +0.4 (from a 29 wins team when is OUT to 42 wins team when is IN).
Jokic bring Denver from -7.1 to +7.2 (from a 23 wins team when is OUT to 57 wins team when is IN).

Big difference.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#236 » by RaptorsLife » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:34 am

im cheering for both teams. since they have 1-2 best canadians in wiggins and jamal murry but nuggets is gonna come across a big problem by the time they can truly contend. They have 1 star and 6-7 very good role players. those 6-7 good players are gonna paid like stars by franchises with cap space. hard to get keep all that money and players. Timberwolves have 2 legit stars in wiggins and KAT. just have to build around them properly
Let's go Raptors
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#237 » by mihail_petkov » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:11 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
mihail_petkov wrote:Jokic hype is enormous, but I think people are sleeping on Towns. Since new year:

Towns: 22 games in 38 mpg - 26.4 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 3.1 pf, 56.2% FG, 35% 3PT, 86% FT, 64% TS, 122 ORTG, 109 DRTG.
Jokic: 17 games in 30.5 mpg - 23.1 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 5.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.0 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 2.6 pf, 59.2% FG, 40.0% 3PT, 87% FT, 66% TS, 131 ORTG, 116 DRTG.


Man, this kinda highlights how beastly jokic is. He arguably has better stats in nearly 8 less minutes of play.

Sure, but his efficiency most likely will drop if he increases his minutes.

mcmurphy wrote:
Riko wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:Nurkic+Mudiay+1st for John Wall

I'll do without the first or with Memphis' pick.


jesus, when I proposed the trade Wizard was 12-15

I think at the time a trade Nurkic+Mudiay+1st 2017 Nuggets + 1st 2017(via Memphis) + 1st 2018 Nuggets for John Wall It would have been well accepted by wizard fans

A duo Wall-Jokic it would be great.


mihail_petkov wrote:Jokic hype is enormous, but I think people are sleeping on Towns. Since new year:

Towns: 22 games in 38 mpg - 26.4 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 3.1 pf, 56.2% FG, 35% 3PT, 86% FT, 64% TS, 122 ORTG, 109 DRTG.
Jokic: 17 games in 30.5 mpg - 23.1 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 5.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.0 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 2.6 pf, 59.2% FG, 40.0% 3PT, 87% FT, 66% TS, 131 ORTG, 116 DRTG.


little correction
Jokic: 18 games in 30.5 mpg - 22.7 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 5.6 apg,1.0 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 2.6 pf, 59.4% FG, 40.0% 3PT, 86% FT, 66% TS, 27.3% USG, 122.6 ORTG, 115.4 DRTG, +7.2 DiffRtg (Team since 1 Jan, 114.2/113.9/+0.3)

Jokic on the floor bring a boost of +6.9 DiffRtg of performance team.

Towns: 22 games in 38 mpg - 26.4 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 1.5 bpg, 2.8 tpg, 3.1 pf, 56.2% FG, 35% 3PT, 86% FT, 64% TS, 110.9 ORTG, 110.5 DRTG, +0.4 DiffRtg (Team since 1 Jan, 108/108.5/-0.5)

Towns on the floor bring a boost of +0.9 DiffRtg of performance team.

Big difference.

Data from stats.nba.com.

edit:

for completeness when Jokic and Towns are OFF the floor:

Denver 105 ORTG, 112.1 DRTG, DiffRtg= -7.1
Towns 96.8 ORTG, 101 DRTG, DiffRtg= -4.2

Towns bring Minnesota from -4.2 to +0.4 (from a 29 wins team when is OUT to 42 wins team when is IN).
Jokic bring Denver from -7.1 to +7.2 (from a 23 wins team when is OUT to 57 wins team when is IN).

Big difference.

Sure, but we use Jokic data for 8 less minutes per game than Towns. If Jokic plays more minutes, he will not be so effective.
Also we use Jokic minutes as center. Take in mind that Towns is playing out of position the whole year as PF.

My point is that they are playing at similar level, but Jokic hype is so big and nobody is talking about KAT. Sounds weird for me.
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Re: RE: Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#238 » by lars_rosenberg » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:37 pm

mihail_petkov wrote:Sure, but we use Jokic data for 8 less minutes per game than Towns. If Jokic plays more minutes, he will not be so effective.
Also we use Jokic minutes as center. Take in mind that Towns is playing out of position the whole year as PF.

My point is that they are playing at similar level, but Jokic hype is so big and nobody is talking about KAT. Sounds weird for me.


Jokic is a lot more pleasant to watch, he's spectacular, makes flashy passes, has a soft touch around the rim, he's like an artist, a pianist.
Towns is a very good player, but I find him unexciting compared to Jokic.
That's why people love Jokic more and being a second round pick makes his story even more interesting.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#239 » by mcmurphy » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:46 pm

mihail_petkov wrote:Sure, but we use Jokic data for 8 less minutes per game than Towns. If Jokic plays more minutes, he will not be so effective.
Also we use Jokic minutes as center. Take in mind that Towns is playing out of position the whole year as PF.

My point is that they are playing at similar level, but Jokic hype is so big and nobody is talking about KAT. Sounds weird for me.


Jokic goes against all logic.

In the 8 games when has player 35+ mpg:

36.6 mpg, 28.5 ppg (0.631 FG%), 13.3 reb, 6.6 ast, 1.3 stl, 1.3 blk

increasing minutes and usage, increase efficiency.

It's insane.
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Re: Best upcoming team. Twolves or Nuggets 

Post#240 » by Curmudgeon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:02 pm

The best up and coming team may be Boston's second unit in 2017-18:

Lonzo Ball (or Markelle Fultz)
Jalen Brown
Abdul Nader
Guerschon Yabusele
Ante Zizic

bench: Terry Rozier, Demetrius Jackson,Jordan Mickey

I left out James Young because I think he will be elsewhere next year.
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