2016-17 Rookie Watch thread

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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1181 » by PockyCandy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:17 pm



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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1182 » by Capn'O » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:07 pm

Lakers fans - Noticing the uptick in Ingram's stats - is he playing well or does it look like a late season mirage?
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1183 » by markjay » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:26 pm

Capn'O wrote:Lakers fans - Noticing the uptick in Ingram's stats - is he playing well or does it look like a late season mirage?


He is definitely playing better. He's shooting much better, aggressively taking it to the rim, playing with more confidence. His defense has been decent all season.

Russell and Zubac are also playing well recently. The Lakers' good start was due in large part to Lou Williams and Nick Young shooting out of their minds. Now you've got their three youngest players -- one 19, and the other two who just turned 20 and 21 -- all looking very good. If the Lakers keep their pick this year, and thus lose next year's pick, I'm really looking forward to seeing what they can do when they have incentive to fight for wins all season.
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1184 » by AussieRules » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:33 am

PockyCandy wrote:

Worst player in the NBA.


2nd Youngest player in the NBA. Younger than most of this year's lottery prospects, can't believe ppl were so quick to write him off smh
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1185 » by Westbreezy » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:22 am

AussieRules wrote:
PockyCandy wrote:

Worst player in the NBA.


2nd Youngest player in the NBA. Younger than most of this year's lottery prospects, can't believe ppl were so quick to write him off smh


Pros and cons of playing for the Lakers. Russell got the same treatment.

I guess the good thing though is that if you're good in LA, you're perceived as a better player than you would be anywhere else. If you're not exceeding expectations though, the pitchforks come out
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1186 » by Vindicater » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:50 pm

Ingram will be fine.

I am hoping Thibs has a list of things for Dunn to work on over the offseason.
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1187 » by Mr Puddles » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:26 am



He's still got a long way to go, at age 19, but Marquese Chriss has shown a lot of improvement over the course of the season.

24 PTS, 7 REB, 2 STL - 7-9 shot (2-2 3pfg / 8-10 ft) and 6 turnovers
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1188 » by Mr Puddles » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:40 am

Westbreezy wrote:
AussieRules wrote:
PockyCandy wrote:

Worst player in the NBA.


2nd Youngest player in the NBA. Younger than most of this year's lottery prospects, can't believe ppl were so quick to write him off smh


Pros and cons of playing for the Lakers. Russell got the same treatment.

I guess the good thing though is that if you're good in LA, you're perceived as a better player than you would be anywhere else. If you're not exceeding expectations though, the pitchforks come out


Anyone who claims after half a season that a 19 year old is a guaranteed bust should not be taken seriously. Especially not when we're talking about a guy with the physical tools of Ingram.
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2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1189 » by Paradise » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:41 am



LeVert finished with 15 Pts,+9 -/+ tonight vs Detroit. LeVert has a 55.2 TS% in 44 games.


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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1190 » by Leor_77 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:02 am

Ingram with another good game - 21/5/3 and 2 steals. Playing better towards the end of the season.

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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1191 » by GimmeDat » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:43 am

Leor_77 wrote:Ingram with another good game - 21/5/3 and 2 steals. Playing better towards the end of the season.


I think people are still in the process of adjusting their expectations for rookies. A decade or longer ago it wouldn't be crazy to see a rookie posting 75% of his peak production in his rookie year. The fact is, the way kids are coming through these days, they're simply not ready to produce as soon as they start playing. People need to start looking more for flashes and tools.

Ingram's slowly coming along, but he's made great strides since the start of the season and is on track to be a great player.
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1192 » by bobbeaver » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:42 pm

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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1193 » by HotelVitale » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:42 pm

Capn'O wrote:Lakers fans - Noticing the uptick in Ingram's stats - is he playing well or does it look like a late season mirage?

Clips look like he's been doing some stuff better for sure, but I also wanted to point out that Ingram's big games have come in big blowout losses. His 3 highest-scoring games this month were in a 21-pt loss to the Spurs, a 39-pt loss to the Rockets, and last night's 24-pt loss to the Clippers. Easy to imagine defenses aren't quite as stiff in those games. (He's also playing enormous minutes to get those stats: looks like he's averaging about 38mpg this month, which is usually about what the league leader averages in a typical season.)

Not hating on him, just giving the proper context for Capn'O's question. His better play is not a 'mirage' but there's still some late-season-on-a-bad-team stuff going on. Def doing some stuff better though (e.g. driving, dishing).
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1194 » by Leor_77 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:21 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
Capn'O wrote:Lakers fans - Noticing the uptick in Ingram's stats - is he playing well or does it look like a late season mirage?

Clips look like he's been doing some stuff better for sure, but I also wanted to point out that Ingram's big games have come in big blowout losses. His 3 highest-scoring games this month were in a 21-pt loss to the Spurs, a 39-pt loss to the Rockets, and last night's 24-pt loss to the Clippers. Easy to imagine defenses aren't quite as stiff in those games. (He's also playing enormous minutes to get those stats: looks like he's averaging about 38mpg this month, which is usually about what the league leader averages in a typical season.)

Not hating on him, just giving the proper context for Capn'O's question. His better play is not a 'mirage' but there's still some late-season-on-a-bad-team stuff going on. Def doing some stuff better though (e.g. driving, dishing).


Dumb argument - You just listed top-3/4 teams in the west. The 2nd worse team in the NBA is expected to lose to them, and even get blown out by them. The highlights for his games are all out there...If you can confirm that the other team was not playing defense, then I guess you have a point. His last 19 games: Shooting 48% from the field.... Last 9 games: 53FG%, averaging 15.2PPG. I'm sure there have been both blowouts and close games in there, good and bad teams.

Have another softball for me to knock out of the park?
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1195 » by gaspar » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:33 pm

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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1196 » by HotelVitale » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:51 pm

Leor_77 wrote: Dumb argument - You just listed top-3/4 teams in the west. The 2nd worse team in the NBA is expected to lose to them, and even get blown out by them. The highlights for his games are all out there...If you can confirm that the other team was not playing defense, then I guess you have a point. His last 19 games: Shooting 48% from the field.... Last 9 games: 53FG%, averaging 15.2PPG. I'm sure there have been both blowouts and close games in there, good and bad teams. Have another softball for me to knock out of the park?
Relax, bud. This isn't an all or nothing, just a simple way of keeping in mind the late-season stuff without blowing it out of proportion. I'm not saying that Ingram's junk and his whole streak is false, that would be stupid and a waste of everyone's time. Just making these points:

--Anyone can see on the videos that most of Ingram's points aren't cheap and are real NBA plays, but that there are some extra things here and there that are probably influenced by game context. In the Clips video, for instance, the first half plays are all super legit and come off contested penetration, screens, etc; but the second half stuff and Ingram's last 10 pts were helped along by scrubby defense after the Clips were up by 30+. (At the 2 minute mark, Crawford doesn't contest an 18 ft jumper; at 2:20, Crawford doesn't contest at all an open 3, even though he's pretty close to him; at 2:35, guy (is that Felton?) just takes a lazy swipe on the fastbreak; and at 2:48, horrible defense gives Ingram an open 3 off the inbound, no screen or misdirection or anything). That doesn't mean Ingram didn't make nice plays/shots to convert, just that the opportunities were a little easier because the defense wasn't playing full tilt.

--Ingram's getting a ton of PT because the Lakers are bad, and 15ppg in 37 minutes isn't the same as 15ppg in like 28 minutes. Just means he's getting a lot of opportunities to score those 15 points, and he's not going out and imposing his will on the game. In the Clippers video again, there's only one or two shots (the first drive and the pull up from the top of the key) that aren't good looks that come to him. Every player gets those, and again they're not invalid. Just helps to keep context of where he's at.
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1197 » by Slava » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:10 pm

^ You could make that argument for every rookie the Lakers, Sixers and Suns have drafted in the past couple of years.
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1198 » by Leor_77 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:03 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
Leor_77 wrote: Dumb argument - You just listed top-3/4 teams in the west. The 2nd worse team in the NBA is expected to lose to them, and even get blown out by them. The highlights for his games are all out there...If you can confirm that the other team was not playing defense, then I guess you have a point. His last 19 games: Shooting 48% from the field.... Last 9 games: 53FG%, averaging 15.2PPG. I'm sure there have been both blowouts and close games in there, good and bad teams. Have another softball for me to knock out of the park?
Relax, bud. This isn't an all or nothing, just a simple way of keeping in mind the late-season stuff without blowing it out of proportion. I'm not saying that Ingram's junk and his whole streak is false, that would be stupid and a waste of everyone's time. Just making these points:

--Anyone can see on the videos that most of Ingram's points aren't cheap and are real NBA plays, but that there are some extra things here and there that are probably influenced by game context. In the Clips video, for instance, the first half plays are all super legit and come off contested penetration, screens, etc; but the second half stuff and Ingram's last 10 pts were helped along by scrubby defense after the Clips were up by 30+. (At the 2 minute mark, Crawford doesn't contest an 18 ft jumper; at 2:20, Crawford doesn't contest at all an open 3, even though he's pretty close to him; at 2:35, guy (is that Felton?) just takes a lazy swipe on the fastbreak; and at 2:48, horrible defense gives Ingram an open 3 off the inbound, no screen or misdirection or anything). That doesn't mean Ingram didn't make nice plays/shots to convert, just that the opportunities were a little easier because the defense wasn't playing full tilt.

--Ingram's getting a ton of PT because the Lakers are bad, and 15ppg in 37 minutes isn't the same as 15ppg in like 28 minutes. Just means he's getting a lot of opportunities to score those 15 points, and he's not going out and imposing his will on the game. In the Clippers video again, there's only one or two shots (the first drive and the pull up from the top of the key) that aren't good looks that come to him. Every player gets those, and again they're not invalid. Just helps to keep context of where he's at.


Regarding his increase in minutes, thank f'ing God. Lou and Nick were ball hogging so much it was hard for him to get in a rhythm (both in touches and in shots). Check out these advanced stats, and you'll see that Ingram's Usage Rating % is ranked 14th on the team (I'm sure it's slightly higher for the 2nd half of the season, but it's still low)...So, be careful about the points argument with increased minutes, if you don't even take into account his low usage rating. Also, despite his skill, he is one of the most selfless players on the team, constantly passing the ball around so everyone can get touches, and making sure others get involved.

I'm not going into the play by play, but many of the top rookies have had big games against good and bad teams, and in close games, as well as blowouts. I'm going to leave it at that...people can come to their own judgements. I see you are from Philly, so good luck with Simmons and Embiid's health. They should be fun AF to watch together.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2017.html#all_advanced
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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1199 » by Clyde Frazier » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:51 am

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Re: 2016-17 Rookie Watch thread 

Post#1200 » by Capn'O » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:57 am

From the clips - he's looking more comfortable for sure. They are low stakes games atm but comfort from him is what you want to see. Had that arms and legs flying in different directions thing going on early in the season.
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