Zach Lowe's annual tiers of the NBA

[yoyoboy]

I know it's only been preseason but Warriors look flat out scary already. I think they are in a tier of their own, above the Cavs

As a Cavs fan I definitely agree for now. I think if we kept Delly I'd be more confident about us being in the same tier, especially with how scary good LeBron has looked in preseason so far. But backup PG is a clear hole.

Personally I don't think the backup PG will be that big of a factor for you guys. Its not like those guys handle the ball a whole lot any ways with a team that features Kyrie and Bron.

Can easily just slot Shump there.. and stagger the minutes of the big 3. The luxury of adding Dunleavy allows Shump to roam all 3 backcourt positions imo.

I somewhat agree, but at the same time Delly was a part of most of the Cavs' too lineups last year by +/-. He's such a great decision maker and he was able to get LeBron a ton of easy shots near the rim, especially in the PnR, that for whatever reason Irving just can't do to nearly the same extent. I also think essentially playing the PG with the second unit takes a lot out of LeBron, so it was nice to have Delly there running the offense.

It might not be as big of a deal come playoff time considering Delly was hurt and almost out of the rotation in the Finals last year anyways, but I think Delly's presence will be missed for sure in the RS.

[dc]

Not to mention that Kawhi looks like a legend in the making right now. I think he and LMA will be an even better duo than they were.

Yeah, I don't think the Spurs will have much of a drop off, if any from last year. You worry a little about Gasol's D vs. Duncan's, but that's about it. Kawhi is getting better still and Aldridge's game should remain unchanged even in his early 30s.

Biggest thing working in their favor is that OKC, who have always been a matchup problem for them, isn't going to be the same team now. I think Spurs-Clips would be another entertaining series that would likely go 7 games again.

Spurs didn't look good at all vs. GS last year and I don't see that matchup looking any better this year, but there's always a chance of a Curry/Durant injury which would change things.

Basically, there's no practical reason for the Spurs to blow it up. A 67 win team with your 2 best players well within their primes is a team you keep together.

[phanman]

They may not win 10 more, but they'd beat Boston or Toronto in 5, maybe 6 if they're lucky

Toronto took Cleveland to 6, are you saying the Spurs are better than the Cavs?

Do you actually think Toronto was even remotely close to beating the Cavs? Because they weren't. The Cavs took a nap for two games and weren't anywhere near their best against Toronto, which is why the gut crushed the first two games against the Warriors.

I think the Spurs could beat the Cavs. I like Aldridge and Gasol against Love and Thompson inside. And LeBron's not dropping 40 on Kawhi.

I mean Toronto didn't have a chance beating the Cavs in the series but at least give the team some credit for those two wins, its not like the Cavs just gave those games up.. especially game 4.

Game 3: 84-99
James 24/8/5/2 on 9/17 shooting in 39m
Kyrie 13/1/4/1 on 3/19 shooting in 37m
Love 3/4/2 on 1/9 shooting 3pts in 29m

-Demar and Lowry actually shot well and Biyombo grabbed 26rebounds with 4blks destroying TT inside

Game 4: 99-105
James 29/9/6/2/1 on 11/16 shooting in 45m
Kyrie 26/3/61 on 11/21 shooting in 38m
Love 10/7/3 on 4/14 shooting in 30m

-Once again Demar and Lowry shot well both scoring 35/32 carrying the team past the Cavs

[Purch]

Some things never change.. Another Nba season.. Another year where a Chris Paul lead team gets overrated, just to dissapoint in the playoffs

[Statlanta]

Putting the the Clippers a tier above the Spurs is laughable.

I'm not sure if he 100% thinks they are better/above considering he mentioned the Nets and Sixers first over the Magic and Kings

He also started on the outlook on your team with this very sentence

It's cool if you want them in a higher tier

The article just seems weirdly formatted with tiers of random definition

[Chinook]

Putting the the Clippers a tier above the Spurs is laughable.

I'm not sure if he 100% thinks they are better/above considering he mentioned the Nets and Sixers first over the Magic and Kings

He also started on the outlook on your team with this very sentence

It's cool if you want them in a higher tier

The article just seems weirdly formatted with tiers of random definition

Nah, he literally put them in a higher tier, with LAC being contenders and SAS being pretenders.

[bwgood77]

I think 7 rock solid playoff teams in the west is a little much. I think a few others might have a chance too if things break right, and I'm not sure some of them should be called "rock solid playoff teams".

[Jkam31]

I know it's only been preseason but Warriors look flat out scary already. I think they are in a tier of their own, above the Cavs

When did they look scary vs Lakers?
Against Sacramento and Toronto starters from both teams out scored GS while GS played there starters more minutes.


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[og15]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17777645/tiers-nba-zach-lowe

Can't believe Boston and Toronto are in the same tier as a Spurs team that won 67-wins last season. A bit of a head-scracther there.

It's all in context though, Boston and Toronto are considered to be part of the "best of the rest" in the East, if they were in the West they wouldn't make it, but it wouldn't make sense to have no Eastern Conference teams in that tier. Boston and Toronto are the teams most people believe will be the 2 and 3 in the East.

[og15]

Putting the the Clippers a tier above the Spurs is laughable.

I'm not sure if he 100% thinks they are better/above considering he mentioned the Nets and Sixers first over the Magic and Kings

He also started on the outlook on your team with this very sentence

It's cool if you want them in a higher tier

The article just seems weirdly formatted with tiers of random definition

Nah, he literally put them in a higher tier, with LAC being contenders and SAS being pretenders.

I don't know, I think he believes that the Clippers upper tier is better than SA, which is reasonable, Blake Griffin has shown in the past that he can do some impressive things, Chris Paul is Chris Paul, and overall the Clippers have a good combination of size and athleticism to matchup with the Warriors. That is essentially the criteria he seems to be using, which team he believes could at its best possibly matchup better with GS. For example I wouldn't be surprised if SA is 2nd and wins more games than LAC, but in the post-season, either team can take the series if they match up, and there's a reasonable argument that LAC has a slightly better chance vs GS (of course assuming all teams are reasonably healthy)

[J_Sky_G]

Zach's ability to take the general pulse of every team so accurately has always immeasurably impressed me. As a Suns fan at least, he seems to always give an almost perfect assessment of our team, good or bad. Are there any fans out there who think he is dead wrong on their team?

I couldn't agree with you more. He's the best basketball writer and it shows.

[ImSlower]

Lowe is probably my favorite active NBA writer. I disagree with several of his positions in this thread, though I do agree on his assessment of my 40-win looking Bulls. I just think that goes to show how nuts this season could be other than the top two teams. Clippers over Spurs? Come on, Zach.

[Lost92Bricks]

Some things never change.. Another Nba season.. Another year where a Chris Paul lead team gets overrated, just to dissapoint in the playoffs

When have his teams gotten overrated?

Most people have put them behind at least 2 other teams in the west and that's where they finish in the playoffs. Losing where you're expected to lose isn't really "disappointing".

[hsb]

They may not win 10 more, but they'd beat Boston or Toronto in 5, maybe 6 if they're lucky

Toronto took Cleveland to 6, are you saying the Spurs are better than the Cavs?

Do you actually think Toronto was even remotely close to beating the Cavs? Because they weren't. The Cavs took a nap for two games and weren't anywhere near their best against Toronto, which is why the gut crushed the first two games against the Warriors.

I think the Spurs could beat the Cavs. I like Aldridge and Gasol against Love and Thompson inside. And LeBron's not dropping 40 on Kawhi.

Cavs didn't nap ish. They tried to steal game 4 but DeRozan scored 12 of the team's last 20 points in response to every time Lebron set a teammate up or Irving tried to get a bucket.

There is a reason why the team with the fifth best record pushed the eventual champs 6 games, if they weren't that good, they would've got swept like Atlanta - which was a clear step down in tiers. I don't know how much better last year's Spurs would do, whatever the veterans had left in the tank ended after game 1 of the WCSF.

[SK21209]

Toronto took Cleveland to 6, are you saying the Spurs are better than the Cavs?

Do you actually think Toronto was even remotely close to beating the Cavs? Because they weren't. The Cavs took a nap for two games and weren't anywhere near their best against Toronto, which is why the gut crushed the first two games against the Warriors.

I think the Spurs could beat the Cavs. I like Aldridge and Gasol against Love and Thompson inside. And LeBron's not dropping 40 on Kawhi.

Cavs didn't nap ish. They tried to steal game 4 but DeRozan scored 12 of the team's last 20 points in response to every time Lebron set a teammate up or Irving tried to get a bucket.

There is a reason why the team with the fifth best record pushed the eventual champs 6 games, if they weren't that good, they would've got swept like Atlanta - which was a clear step down in tiers. I don't know how much better last year's Spurs would do, whatever the veterans had left in the tank ended after game 1 of the WCSF.

Cleveland's 4 wins came by 31, 19, 38, and 26. The Raptors two wins came by a combined 21. It was not a close series. Toronto is a good team, but saying they took Cleveland to 6 like that's any sort of measuring stick against other teams, which is what the post I was responding to said, is misguided. The Mavs took the Spurs to 7 in 2014 but the Thunder only made it to 6 and the Heat to 5. Both teams were far, far superior to those Mavs.

[hsb]

Do you actually think Toronto was even remotely close to beating the Cavs? Because they weren't. The Cavs took a nap for two games and weren't anywhere near their best against Toronto, which is why the gut crushed the first two games against the Warriors.

I think the Spurs could beat the Cavs. I like Aldridge and Gasol against Love and Thompson inside. And LeBron's not dropping 40 on Kawhi.

Cavs didn't nap ish. They tried to steal game 4 but DeRozan scored 12 of the team's last 20 points in response to every time Lebron set a teammate up or Irving tried to get a bucket.

There is a reason why the team with the fifth best record pushed the eventual champs 6 games, if they weren't that good, they would've got swept like Atlanta - which was a clear step down in tiers. I don't know how much better last year's Spurs would do, whatever the veterans had left in the tank ended after game 1 of the WCSF.

Cleveland's 4 wins came by 31, 19, 38, and 26. The Raptors two wins came by a combined 21. It was not a close series. Toronto is a good team, but saying they took Cleveland to 6 like that's any sort of measuring stick against other teams, which is what the post I was responding to said, is misguided. The Mavs took the Spurs to 7 in 2014 but the Thunder only made it to 6 and the Heat to 5. Both teams were far, far superior to those Mavs.

So a team that came 8-0 against two teams, decided to give another team two free wins. Maybe they just couldn't sweep them because Toronto was on a different level than the other two teams...which is why their record was top 5...

Again, with the way the Spurs went down, I'm not too sure they would do any better and honestly, they would probably do worse.

[SK21209]

Cavs didn't nap ish. They tried to steal game 4 but DeRozan scored 12 of the team's last 20 points in response to every time Lebron set a teammate up or Irving tried to get a bucket.

There is a reason why the team with the fifth best record pushed the eventual champs 6 games, if they weren't that good, they would've got swept like Atlanta - which was a clear step down in tiers. I don't know how much better last year's Spurs would do, whatever the veterans had left in the tank ended after game 1 of the WCSF.

Cleveland's 4 wins came by 31, 19, 38, and 26. The Raptors two wins came by a combined 21. It was not a close series. Toronto is a good team, but saying they took Cleveland to 6 like that's any sort of measuring stick against other teams, which is what the post I was responding to said, is misguided. The Mavs took the Spurs to 7 in 2014 but the Thunder only made it to 6 and the Heat to 5. Both teams were far, far superior to those Mavs.

So a team that came 8-0 against two teams, decided to give another team two free wins to the other team. Maybe they just couldn't sweep them because Toronto was on a different level than the other two teams...

Again, with the way the Spurs went down, I'm not too sure they would do any better and honestly, they would probably do worse.

I mean it wouldn't be the first time that a team that coasted through the prior round or two dropped a game or two against a lesser team. There's a reason why the best team doesn't go 12-0 every postseason. Again, I'm not saying the Raptors aren't good because they are. But not all 6 game series are created equal.

The Spurs probably wouldn't have beaten the Cavs last year. But they sure as hell would've put down the Raptors

[hsb]

Cleveland's 4 wins came by 31, 19, 38, and 26. The Raptors two wins came by a combined 21. It was not a close series. Toronto is a good team, but saying they took Cleveland to 6 like that's any sort of measuring stick against other teams, which is what the post I was responding to said, is misguided. The Mavs took the Spurs to 7 in 2014 but the Thunder only made it to 6 and the Heat to 5. Both teams were far, far superior to those Mavs.

So a team that came 8-0 against two teams, decided to give another team two free wins to the other team. Maybe they just couldn't sweep them because Toronto was on a different level than the other two teams...

Again, with the way the Spurs went down, I'm not too sure they would do any better and honestly, they would probably do worse.

I mean it wouldn't be the first time that a team that coasted through the prior round or two dropped a game or two against a lesser team. There's a reason why the best team doesn't go 12-0 every postseason. Again, I'm not saying the Raptors aren't good because they are. But not all 6 game series are created equal.

The Spurs probably wouldn't have beaten the Cavs last year. But they sure as hell would've put down the Raptors

A Lebron team wouldn't want to play more minutes than they should. They went on an insane run in game 4 to try to steal the game, but DeRozan wasn't having it and took the win from them and why a team like Atlanta or Detroit couldn't close out a victory against them while the Raps could. That's what happens when you have a talented team. You greatly exaggerated there.

The Spurs got a bye facing against an incredibly hobbled up Memphis and then lost in the second round in 6 to a team that didn't advance to the finals. I think to get to your perspective, you have to greatly overrate the regular season production from your squad.

They have to prove they are a tier above the Clippers and Raptors. I don't think they had the legs to put down anyone, especially considering how soft a first round opponent they had and still couldn't run the floor well. To add another veteran in Gasol, the same fears should persists when spring comes around. They ain't scaring anyone.

[mtron929]

To be honest, I think Cavs vs Warriors will largely be swayed by potential injuries. If I were a betting man, I would expect few of the following players (Curry, Durant for Warriors and Love, Irving for Cavs) to not be 100% come playoff time. That will be a big swing.

[HeartBreakKid]

The Raptors are on a different level from the other Eastern teams because they took the Cavs to 6 games..?

Let's be real here, the Pistons probably played the Cavs better than the Raptors did. It's great the Raptors managed to get a couple of Ws, but they got their asses kicked in the games they lost. The Pistons, a much younger team, got swept but made the Cavs work much harder for it in my opinion

If the Raptors were a different level from the other teams in the East, they would not have lost in the first round the past couple years, and nearly lost in the first round in the 2016 playoffs (and nearly lost in the 2nd round as well).