richboy wrote:The only one with reading comprehension issues is the one that is blatantly ignoring that OKC rebounds much better with RW in the game. That the players you keep talking about don't have big increase in rebounding when RW isn't in the game. Nor did they do anything in previous years.
On/off rebounding numbers can be useful, in context. There are the following problems:
1) You're making blanket statements about statistics without posting the statistics. Not helpful.
2) There needs to be a large enough sample size for numbers to be meaningful. Otherwise, game situation, opponents and teammates can skew numbers. As a simple example, we both agree that Pido is a much better rebounder than Morrow. But the 2 most common OKC lineups are:
Westbrook-Oladipo-Roberson-Sabonis-Adams with 344.2 MP
Westbrook-Morrow-Roberson-Sabonis-Adams with 100.6 MP
The first unit has a 49.0% rebounding rate, the second unit has a 53.5%. It appears to be a statistical anomaly, which, again, highlights the problems of looking at individual lineups with limited minutes.
It is still very interesting to note that the Thunder's most common lineup, by far, is below average in rebounding rateOn the other hand, the best Thunder rebounding lineup is: Christon-Oladipo-Grant-Lauvergne-Kanter, with a 62.0% rate in only 21.7 minutes this season. Again, it demonstrates the hazards of jumping to conclusions with small sample sizes. The next two best include Russ, Olapido, Kanter and Adams, which is unsurprising as it has their 4 best rebounders by positions
3) The Westbrook on/off rebounding stats are interesting because, before tonight's game, Westbrook has played 1459 minutes, leaving 577 PG minutes. Christon has played 556 minutes, almost all of them without Westbrook.
So, on/off rebounding for Westbrook is mainly a comparison between Westbrook and Christon, who is grabbing 3.3 TRB/36 (and likely isn't stealing rebounds from Lauvergne's hands).
4) Of the Thunder's top 20 5 man units, not a single one has Adams on and Westbrook off. So any analysis of Adams without Westbrook is a minuscule sample size
richboy wrote:What do elite rebounding guards get? That point is meaningless. Your in essence saying there is a level he does it on his own. Again but 10.5 he can't do that on his own. Well in reality if you think Whiteside is getting 14 rebounds per game on his own you need to learn the game. That all rebounds are this intense battle under the glass among PFs and centers is not reality. When in reality many rebounds come off long. That RW gets a ton of rebounds away from the basket.
Here you go, spouting some random opinion as fact while being too lazy to check.
Again, Westbrook isn't getting long rebounds at some amazing rate:
Rebounds <6 feet from the rim (contested, uncontested):
Westbrook 64, 214
Harden 49, 139
Curry 10, 54
Rebounds 6-10 feet from the rim (contested, uncontested):
Westbrook 13, 91
Harden 21, 85
Curry 9, 30
Rebounds >10 feet from the rim (contested, uncontested):
Westbrook 12, 56
Harden 8, 53
Curry 10, 54
richboy wrote:Once again part of the team aspect is doing things as a team. Westbrook is getting those rebounds. Your point would mean more if without Westbrook they were getting those rebounds. Your point would mean more if Adams wasn't on the floor he was rebounding less. Why you comparing Cousins to Westbrook with regards to rebounding. Your just looking at a number and trying to make this grand conclusion. RW rebounds against point guards. If the Kings had RW they likely get a lot more rebounds because he dominate his matchup on the glass.
See, this is why contested rebounds are such an important stat,
because Westbrook isn't dominating his match up on the glass, he's getting uncontested rebounds. Most point guards certainly aren't trying to get an offensive rebound within 6 feet of the rim --
Westbrook's man is most likely nowhere near him when he's getting a defensive rebound.
I could see the argument that Westbrook's speed let's him track down a lot of long, hard rebounds but the data doesn't support that.
So, I really don't know how you can support your conclusion that Sacramento would be a much better rebounding team with Westbrook, because he certainly wouldn't be taking a lot of rebounds from guys like Hassan Whiteside and DeAndre Jordan -- you know, the guys who are actually contesting rebounds.
richboy wrote:Westbrook impact at dominating the guard spot on the glass is bigger than Cousin's who is pretty much matching his opponent on the glass. This doesn't mean RW is better on the glass than DC. Westbrook doesn't have to battle DC on the glass very often.
For once we agree -- Westbrook isn't battling a lot of centers for defensive rebounds... or power forwards... or small forwards... or shooting guards... or point guards.
RW is getting 5.1 boards per game within 6 feet of his own rim, with no opponents within 3.5 feet of him. Overall, he's getting 8.6 RPG with no opposing player within 3.5 feet of him and 2.1 RPG while an opponent is closer.
Westbrook's contested rebounding numbers are terrific for a guard, but they're in line with other elite rebounding guards. His mid-to-long rebounding numbers are consistent with Harden's -- the only thing that he's doing at a historic pace is grabbing boards within 6 feet of the rim with no opposing player contesting him.richboy wrote:Matter of fact you could make a case that RW rebounds would go down if he played with Cousin's because he bad on defense and there would be less rebounds available. Either way your making statements and just waiting for something to back them up. Just like your James Harden take. Westbrook plays less minutes with better rebounders than Houston. Yet somehow Westbrook is the one stealing rebounds.
I would agree that Westbrook's rebounds would go down if he was playing with DMC because there is no way DMC would give up boards like Adams does. But, you see, I actually back up my statements with data (except the last one, which was a joke).
I just don't understand your insistence on your wild guesses when it's contracted by the stats, the coach and his teammates.
You're squealing like a schoolgirl for a stat, the uncontested rebound, that defensive teams get 99% of the time and offensive teams get 97% of the time.“I pretty much played the last three games with a broken hand,” James said as he sat there with a softcast on the right hand.
