Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts)

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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#41 » by Mylie10 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:49 pm

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Re: RE: Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager 

Post#42 » by The_Hater » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:51 pm

K_chile22 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
K_chile22 wrote:That Brooklyn trade was a masterpiece, but everything since is kinda meh. No one knew It would be this so it's hard to give him too much credit there, and he seems too attached to his assets, as the rumor is the hang up between they and the Magic for Ibaka was Terry freaking Rozier


Everything else? Really?

Admittedly forgot about the Rondo haul


How about trading a late 1st rounder for All-star PG Thomas? The Rondo and Jefferson draft picks? The Garnett and Allen trades that led to a championship?

He built one championship team, tore it down and has now built a 50 win team with a bright future. There aren't very many GM's in league history who have been able to do that. It obviously takes a lot of really good decisions to accomplish that.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#43 » by KG_Wolves » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:00 am

Good at making trades, but an atrocious drafter..

He needs to trade those Brooklyn picks before he is forced to draft his next bust :noway:
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#44 » by LoyalKing » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:01 am

Very good in trades, but terrible in the draft. He is like the opposite of the Bucks GM
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager 

Post#45 » by jswede » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:00 am

OptionZero wrote:Listen to Tim Bontemps on the TrueHoop pod from yesterday, he told the story ow how this trade developed, since he covered the situation.

That draft night, the trade agreed upon between BKN and BOS was Pierce for Humpries expiring and a pick. BKN then asked about Garnett, BOS in turn kept suggesting stuff to expand the deal. BKN's russian exec insisted on doing the deal immediately and agreed to everything BOS kept throwing into it, until . . . BKN killed themselves.

I guess Ainge deserves credit for completely mauling a defenseless, incompetent franchise

He also did great in the Rondo trade, DAL was moronic for doing that one.

His actual draft picks have been pretty stupid, since he keeps drafting small guards that aren't true point guards and can't shoot.

While the Isaiah trade was brilliant value, . . . he's gonna have a big decision coming up with the contracts of Bradley and Thomas


That was a great episode! Thanks for the heads up.

The True Hoop guys are mostly in agreement (I think they were only slightly exaggerating) that Ainge deserves Exec of Year every year - lol.

I paraphrase: "Celtics are likely to own the #1 pick this year, and nearly as likely to have it again in 2018" - this along with their own 1st round picks every year and an additional 2 1st rounders combined in '19 & '20, plus the assets they have stashed in D-league and in Europe...

Oh, and also "they have a young 30 point scorer and are in 2nd place in the East".
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager 

Post#46 » by Slax » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:52 am

OptionZero wrote:His actual draft picks have been pretty stupid, since he keeps drafting small guards that aren't true point guards and can't shoot.


Except the undersized combo guards and guards who can't shoot have almost invariably turned out to be very good players who were significantly undervalued by the league before Ainge acquired them. Delonte West, Tony Allen, Rajon Rondo, Avery Bradley, and Marcus Smart have all turned out to be very good players. Isaiah Thomas also fits that mold if you expand to acquisitions outside the draft. Marcus Banks was a bust, and Terry Rozier is still young but he could become a bust too if he doesn't improve. Even still that's an unbelievably high hit rate. At this point it should be clear that Ainge has found a strategy for consistently identifying undervalued players that he has been applying successfully since 2004, but he still catches flack for using this strategy over 12 years later.

The funny thing is, while he's getting criticized for how he drafts guards, he has drafted a ton of busts at the forward and center positions and missed some really good prospects. He actually deserves a lot of criticism for that, to the point where I might even consider him a worse than average drafter. Drafting guards though? That's where Ainge shines.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager 

Post#47 » by Scalabrine » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:01 am

Knickstape1214 wrote:
Boston34Bg wrote:Impressive that you put in the work. No idea what the point of this is? To evaluate Ainge?


:lol: He copy and pasted from basketball reference (http://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/aingeda01x.html ).

Anyways, I think he's very good but not great. He put a hell of a number on the Nets, he put together the big 3, signed an awesome young coach, has a great PG (and depth in the backcourt), drafted well with high picks, and has kept contracts in check while signing guys to good deals. Only reason I wouldn't say he's great is he appears to overvalue his assets at times and isn't great drafting outside high picks (lately, at least).

Anyways, I like him a lot and because I know why OP brought this up, I'm going to say that Ainge's track record is miles better than Phillip's currently is and Ainge never gave a player the luxury of having the worst contract in basketball (or tied for worst). :wink:


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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#48 » by vxmike » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:18 am

He's living off the BKN, Rondo and IT trades. I think the Horford signing and stubbornness to trade the Jaylen Brown pick and the '17 and '18 picks will ruin an amazing opportunity.

Boston needs a star. They had three BKN picks, tons of cap room and solid young talent on good contracts. Now the J Brown pick has much less value, Horford (not a star) took much of their cap flexibility and Crowder/Bradley/IT are one year closer to getting PAID.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#49 » by DarkAzcura » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:07 am

EDIT: His drafting led directly to having the assets to trade for Garnett and still have players (all drafted) like Rondo, Tony Allen, and Perkins left over to fill the championship roster.

About half the current rotation is made up of Celtic drafted players, and they have the 5th best record in the league.

I have no idea where these crazy hot takes of Ainge being a poor drafter started, but it's one of the most bizarre things I have noticed over the last few years.

He isn't perfect, but if you list the drafting record of every team over the last 10 years, it will likely also look pretty junky.

vxmike wrote:He's living off the BKN, Rondo and IT trades. I think the Horford signing and stubbornness to trade the Jaylen Brown pick and the '17 and '18 picks will ruin an amazing opportunity.

Boston needs a star. They had three BKN picks, tons of cap room and solid young talent on good contracts. Now the J Brown pick has much less value, Horford (not a star) took much of their cap flexibility and Crowder/Bradley/IT are one year closer to getting PAID.


So he is living off making great moves as a GM.

Wow, you have me really thinking here.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#50 » by DelMonte West » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:15 am

Marcus Smart with EIGHT steals and 20 points on 7/11 shooting. A healthy Avery Bradley is already an All-NBA First-Team defender. If Smart continues to develop the Celtics may well end up with two. What a terrible drafter!
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#51 » by DarkAzcura » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:16 am

Turner4MVP wrote:His drafting is atrocious but he is great at trades.

Year Round Pick Name
2016 1 3 Jaylen Brown
2016 1 16 Guerschon Yabusele
2016 1 23 Ante Žižić
2015 1 16 Terry Rozier
2015 1 28 R. J. Hunter
2014 1 6 Marcus Smart
2014 1 17 James Young
2013 1 16 Lucas Nogueira
2012 1 21 Jared Sullinger
2012 1 22 Fab Melo
2011 1 25 MarShon Brooks
2010 1 19 Avery Bradley
2008 1 30 J. R. Giddens
2007 1 5 Jeff Green
2006 1 7 Randy Foye
2005 1 18 Gerald Green
2004 1 15 Al Jefferson
2004 1 24 Delonte West
2004 1 25 Tony Allen
2003 1 16 Troy Bell
2003 1 20 Dahntay Jones

2016 2 31 Deyonta Davis
2016 2 35 Rade Zagorac
2016 2 45 Demetrius Jackson
2016 2 51 Ben Bentil
2016 2 58 Abdel Nader
2015 2 33 Jordan Mickey
2015 2 45 Marcus Thornton
2012 2 51 Kris Joseph
2011 2 55 E'Twaun Moore
2010 2 52 Luke Harangody
2009 2 58 Lester Hudson
2008 2 60 Semih Erden
2007 2 32 Gabe Pruitt
2005 2 50 Ryan Gomes
2005 2 53 Orien Greene
2004 2 40 Justin Reed


Didn't find anybody in the second round and hasn't drafted well since Avery Bradley.


I suggest you look at other team's drafting records this closely if you think this is bad. Your list also doesn't include Rondo, Perkins, and Olynyk which are all very good picks. I also don't see Leon Powe or Glen Davis on your list. Two second rounders who had very good contributions to the 2008 championship. That's a total of 5 draft picks not on your list who were/are solid rotation players to all star level (Rondo). Granted the reason they aren't on your list is because they are all draft day trades, but they are still Celtic picks through and through.

And he hasn't drafted anyone since Bradley? What? Olynyk, Smart, and Brown are all making significant contributions to a team with the 5th best record in the league. Zizic is also getting tons of hype in Europe right now.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#52 » by vxmike » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:16 am

DarkAzcura wrote:EDIT: His drafting led directly to having the assets to trade for Garnett and still have players (all drafted) like Rondo, Tony Allen, and Perkins left over to fill the championship roster.

About half the current rotation is made up of Celtic drafted players, and they have the 5th best record in the league.

I have no idea where these crazy hot takes of Ainge being a poor drafter started, but it's one of the most bizarre things I have noticed over the last few years.

He isn't perfect, but if you list the drafting record of every team over the last 10 years, it will likely also look pretty junky.

vxmike wrote:He's living off the BKN, Rondo and IT trades. I think the Horford signing and stubbornness to trade the Jaylen Brown pick and the '17 and '18 picks will ruin an amazing opportunity.

Boston needs a star. They had three BKN picks, tons of cap room and solid young talent on good contracts. Now the J Brown pick has much less value, Horford (not a star) took much of their cap flexibility and Crowder/Bradley/IT are one year closer to getting PAID.


So he is living off making great moves as a GM.

Wow, you have me really thinking here.


I don't think he's a poor drafter, and I believe his overall situation pre draft in the summer of 2016 was incredible.

I just think the Horford signing and (alleged) over valuation of the three BKN picks were awful.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#53 » by DarkAzcura » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:18 am

vxmike wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:EDIT: His drafting led directly to having the assets to trade for Garnett and still have players (all drafted) like Rondo, Tony Allen, and Perkins left over to fill the championship roster.

About half the current rotation is made up of Celtic drafted players, and they have the 5th best record in the league.

I have no idea where these crazy hot takes of Ainge being a poor drafter started, but it's one of the most bizarre things I have noticed over the last few years.

He isn't perfect, but if you list the drafting record of every team over the last 10 years, it will likely also look pretty junky.

vxmike wrote:He's living off the BKN, Rondo and IT trades. I think the Horford signing and stubbornness to trade the Jaylen Brown pick and the '17 and '18 picks will ruin an amazing opportunity.

Boston needs a star. They had three BKN picks, tons of cap room and solid young talent on good contracts. Now the J Brown pick has much less value, Horford (not a star) took much of their cap flexibility and Crowder/Bradley/IT are one year closer to getting PAID.


So he is living off making great moves as a GM.

Wow, you have me really thinking here.


I don't think he's a poor drafter, and I believe his overall situation pre draft in the summer of 2016 was incredible.

I just think the Horford signing and (alleged) over valuation of the three BKN picks were awful.


Fair enough. I have a different opinion about the BKN picks and their handling, but I can understand your point.

I'm completely OK with Ainge hanging on to the picks and drafting with them. No one on the trade market has been worth them yet, IMO.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#54 » by myronbolitar » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:58 am

lol @ anyone who thinks the Horford signing was bad. Other teams were ready to max him out. He's putting up 15/7/5 with 2 blocks per game, has provided excellent leadership in the lockerroom, made the Celtics players for Durant, and ended the myth that star free agents won't sign in Boston. And, oh yeah, despite injuries to all their best players, they're second in the East right now.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#55 » by Crossy2008 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:00 am

DarkAzcura wrote:
vxmike wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:EDIT: His drafting led directly to having the assets to trade for Garnett and still have players (all drafted) like Rondo, Tony Allen, and Perkins left over to fill the championship roster.

About half the current rotation is made up of Celtic drafted players, and they have the 5th best record in the league.

I have no idea where these crazy hot takes of Ainge being a poor drafter started, but it's one of the most bizarre things I have noticed over the last few years.

He isn't perfect, but if you list the drafting record of every team over the last 10 years, it will likely also look pretty junky.



So he is living off making great moves as a GM.

Wow, you have me really thinking here.


I don't think he's a poor drafter, and I believe his overall situation pre draft in the summer of 2016 was incredible.

I just think the Horford signing and (alleged) over valuation of the three BKN picks were awful.


Fair enough. I have a different opinion about the BKN picks and their handling, but I can understand your point.

I'm completely OK with Ainge hanging on to the picks and drafting with them. No one on the trade market has been worth them yet, IMO.


Also, saying Boston doesn't have a star when they have the second leading scorer in the league is hard to understand. I've done a pretty good amount of research on Ainge's drafting history, and he has been very successful. Red Auerbach is one of the best drafters of all-time, and if you look at his history, he picked a lot of nobodies. In fact, you can take any GM in the history of the NBA and look at there draft history and find a ton of flaws. Ainge hasn't had the luxury that a lot of other teams have had by picking high in the draft. He's only had a few picks that were in the lottery while he's been with the Celtics. Still, if you reorder the drafts, his picks jump up the board more often than not.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#56 » by DarkAzcura » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:05 am

Crossy2008 wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:
vxmike wrote:
I don't think he's a poor drafter, and I believe his overall situation pre draft in the summer of 2016 was incredible.

I just think the Horford signing and (alleged) over valuation of the three BKN picks were awful.


Fair enough. I have a different opinion about the BKN picks and their handling, but I can understand your point.

I'm completely OK with Ainge hanging on to the picks and drafting with them. No one on the trade market has been worth them yet, IMO.


Also, saying Boston doesn't have a star when they have the second leading scorer in the league is hard to understand. I've done a pretty good amount of research on Ainge's drafting history, and he has been very successful. Red Auerbach is one of the best drafters of all-time, and if you look at his history, he picked a lot of nobodies. In fact, you can take any GM in the history of the NBA and look at there draft history and find a ton of flaws. Ainge hasn't had the luxury that a lot of other teams have had by picking high in the draft. He's only had a few picks that were in the lottery while he's been with the Celtics. Still, if you reorder the drafts, his picks jump up the board more often than not.


Yeah I really don't get it. I don't see any other GM's complete drafting history posted as much as with Ainge. Maybe it's because he is one of the longest tenured GMs. I dunno. People should really compare apples to apples. Doesn't help that some of Ainge's better picks were draft day trades so they don't show up in his history (like Rondo).
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#57 » by vxmike » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:21 am

myronbolitar wrote:lol @ anyone who thinks the Horford signing was bad. Other teams were ready to max him out. He's putting up 15/7/5 with 2 blocks per game, has provided excellent leadership in the lockerroom, made the Celtics players for Durant, and ended the myth that star free agents won't sign in Boston. And, oh yeah, despite injuries to all their best players, they're second in the East right now.


Horford isn't a difference maker in the playoffs. Signing him for huge money into his mid 30s was a bad idea. For $25M he doesn't move the needle like he should.

There were better signings out there or they could have sat on that cap room. They should have pursued either Cousins or Butler with the BKN picks and that could have persuaded another star in FA last summer or this coming one.

Signing stars in FA is much less likely with the new CBA, unfortunately. By the time those BKN picks develop Horford will be old and BOS will be fighting cap hell with new deals for Crowder/Thomas/Bradley.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#58 » by Bar Fight » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:41 am

vxmike wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:EDIT: His drafting led directly to having the assets to trade for Garnett and still have players (all drafted) like Rondo, Tony Allen, and Perkins left over to fill the championship roster.

About half the current rotation is made up of Celtic drafted players, and they have the 5th best record in the league.

I have no idea where these crazy hot takes of Ainge being a poor drafter started, but it's one of the most bizarre things I have noticed over the last few years.

He isn't perfect, but if you list the drafting record of every team over the last 10 years, it will likely also look pretty junky.

vxmike wrote:He's living off the BKN, Rondo and IT trades. I think the Horford signing and stubbornness to trade the Jaylen Brown pick and the '17 and '18 picks will ruin an amazing opportunity.

Boston needs a star. They had three BKN picks, tons of cap room and solid young talent on good contracts. Now the J Brown pick has much less value, Horford (not a star) took much of their cap flexibility and Crowder/Bradley/IT are one year closer to getting PAID.


So he is living off making great moves as a GM.

Wow, you have me really thinking here.


I don't think he's a poor drafter, and I believe his overall situation pre draft in the summer of 2016 was incredible.

I just think the Horford signing and (alleged) over valuation of the three BKN picks were awful.

Those picks have the best chance to be number 1 overall. You don't trade those unless you're getting a bonafide superstar. How on earth is he overvaluing them? People never **** on anyone else who would rather not trade a 25% chance at the number 1 pick, but Ainge is apparently "wasting assets", as if he isn't capable of just keeping the pick and drafting a potential young superstar.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#59 » by Bar Fight » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:48 am

People act like mid-late first round picks aren't complete crapshoots (the second round even moreso). Even teams like the Warriors and Spurs whiff on picks in that range. Ainge has had high lottery picks twice in recent memory. He drafted an elite defensive player and probably our second or third best player right now in Marcus Smart, and Jaylen Brown who has shown flashes this season. Both guys are still young and are already solid contributors on the 2nd seed in the East.

He also drafted Rondo, Bradley, Tony Allen, Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk, and Al Jefferson who are all at least rotation players in the league right now.
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Re: Danny Ainge as a General Manager (drafts) 

Post#60 » by Crossy2008 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:52 am

vxmike wrote:
myronbolitar wrote:lol @ anyone who thinks the Horford signing was bad. Other teams were ready to max him out. He's putting up 15/7/5 with 2 blocks per game, has provided excellent leadership in the lockerroom, made the Celtics players for Durant, and ended the myth that star free agents won't sign in Boston. And, oh yeah, despite injuries to all their best players, they're second in the East right now.


Horford isn't a difference maker in the playoffs. Signing him for huge money into his mid 30s was a bad idea. For $25M he doesn't move the needle like he should.

There were better signings out there or they could have sat on that cap room. They should have pursued either Cousins or Butler with the BKN picks and that could have persuaded another star in FA last summer or this coming one.

Signing stars in FA is much less likely with the new CBA, unfortunately. By the time those BKN picks develop Horford will be old and BOS will be fighting cap hell with new deals for Crowder/Thomas/Bradley.


You mean like the cap hell that the Cavs and Warriors are facing? How many teams in the league would be happy to change places with Boston right now? Ainge has orchestrated an incredibly quick rebuild. It's good to think a few years down the road, but it's not like the Celtics have only one path going forward. There is a lot of flexibility in their future.

The Celtics have a real possibility of getting the top seed in the East, while getting the first pick in a great draft. Think about that for a minute.

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