Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1...

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Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#1 » by Rust_Cohle » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:33 am

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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#2 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:38 am

I'd have no issue if he won. Best two way player in the league by I think a wide margin. Best defensive player in the league averaging 26/6/3 on 49/39/89 shooting while on the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league. Sounds like a legit MVP contender to me.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#3 » by ninjamilk23 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:39 am

Good read. But how is he scoring 30 every night but only average 26?
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#5 » by London2Boston » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:04 am

Give me Kawhi over Harden or Westbrook for sure. Won't happen though.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#6 » by Cactus Jack » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:09 am

Love me some Kawhi
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#7 » by Lockdown » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:21 am

I can get behind this movement.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#8 » by LivingLegend » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:22 am

Should def. be over Westbrook. I get the whole triple double thing, but when your team is the 7 seed and you have the 12th best winning percentage in basketball--that is a wholelotta point docked off Westbrooks final MVP case. Especially when the league has shown they prefer 'the best on a championship contender"

The Rockets havent made a whole lotta noise recently and if they struggle down the stretch to really cement themselves--that also weakens Hardens chances with players like Kawhi/Durant/LeBron playing and having their teams in god mode.

You know LeBron will make a push and with Love/JR out with his load he is carrying, if he gets the Cavs to the 2nd-3rd best record in the NBA and #1 in the East--he will have a strong case.

If Kawhi keeps playing at this level and the Spurs go on a crazy finishing stretch and gets the Spurs 62+ wins.. he has a strong case

And if the league wants to take the easy road they can give it Durant for being the best player on the best team.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#9 » by Winsome Gerbil » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:22 am

...because I spend too much time loving me some advanced stats.

The winning stuff is nearly irrelevant until you can convince me if he got hurt the Spurs would collapse to the degree that the Thunder or Rockets would if Westbrook/Harden got hurt.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#10 » by pelifan » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:22 am

I agree with this
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#11 » by Infinite Llamas » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:02 am

Winsome Gerbil wrote:...because I spend too much time loving me some advanced stats.

The winning stuff is nearly irrelevant until you can convince me if he got hurt the Spurs would collapse to the degree that the Thunder or Rockets would if Westbrook/Harden got hurt.


I personally think the Spurs would be screwed without Leonard. Let's be honest, he's surrounded by a ton of good role players and a declining Aldridge. They may still take out the bottom feeders but I think they'd be a train wreck. Leonard's numbers aren't as flashy but 26 a night on near 50/40/90 is MVP stuff...and the record backs it up. Maybe if Leonard averaged 6 turnovers a night, he'd be getting more MVP buzz :roll:
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#12 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:59 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
Winsome Gerbil wrote:...because I spend too much time loving me some advanced stats.

The winning stuff is nearly irrelevant until you can convince me if he got hurt the Spurs would collapse to the degree that the Thunder or Rockets would if Westbrook/Harden got hurt.


I personally think the Spurs would be screwed without Leonard. Let's be honest, he's surrounded by a ton of good role players and a declining Aldridge. They may still take out the bottom feeders but I think they'd be a train wreck. Leonard's numbers aren't as flashy but 26 a night on near 50/40/90 is MVP stuff...and the record backs it up. Maybe if Leonard averaged 6 turnovers a night, he'd be getting more MVP buzz :roll:


Ya let's not act like the Spurs are some super team. The 2nd best player on the team just had a thread on here talking about how much he's regressed this year. Just look at the guys getting minutes on the team after Kawhi and Aldridge, you got Green, Mills, Parker, Gasol and Lee. You got role players and really aging stars. Harden us surrounded by a good amount of good role players himself. Take Kawhi off SA and they definitely don't have the 2nd best record anymore.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#13 » by Atmanne » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:01 am

He had a lull after a hot start that made everyone forget about him (and Harden and Westbrook were going bonkers). Could argue he's been the best player in the game these last six weeks though.

ninjamilk23 wrote:Good read. But how is he scoring 30 every night but only average 26?


Lowe was just riffing on a podcast with Howard Beck. He basically meant he's been scoring 30 a night recently.

Surprised someone transcribed this.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#14 » by PeptoKlepto » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:04 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:
Winsome Gerbil wrote:...because I spend too much time loving me some advanced stats.

The winning stuff is nearly irrelevant until you can convince me if he got hurt the Spurs would collapse to the degree that the Thunder or Rockets would if Westbrook/Harden got hurt.


I personally think the Spurs would be screwed without Leonard. Let's be honest, he's surrounded by a ton of good role players and a declining Aldridge. They may still take out the bottom feeders but I think they'd be a train wreck. Leonard's numbers aren't as flashy but 26 a night on near 50/40/90 is MVP stuff...and the record backs it up. Maybe if Leonard averaged 6 turnovers a night, he'd be getting more MVP buzz :roll:


Ya let's not act like the Spurs are some super team. The 2nd best player on the team just had a thread on here talking about how much he's regressed this year. Just look at the guys getting minutes on the team after Kawhi and Aldridge, you got Green, Mills, Parker, Gasol and Lee. You got role players and really aging stars. Harden us surrounded by a good amount of good role players himself. Take Kawhi off SA and they definitely don't have the 2nd best record anymore.


Except Aldridge hasn't regressed at all.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#15 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:13 am

PeptoKlepto wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:
I personally think the Spurs would be screwed without Leonard. Let's be honest, he's surrounded by a ton of good role players and a declining Aldridge. They may still take out the bottom feeders but I think they'd be a train wreck. Leonard's numbers aren't as flashy but 26 a night on near 50/40/90 is MVP stuff...and the record backs it up. Maybe if Leonard averaged 6 turnovers a night, he'd be getting more MVP buzz :roll:


Ya let's not act like the Spurs are some super team. The 2nd best player on the team just had a thread on here talking about how much he's regressed this year. Just look at the guys getting minutes on the team after Kawhi and Aldridge, you got Green, Mills, Parker, Gasol and Lee. You got role players and really aging stars. Harden us surrounded by a good amount of good role players himself. Take Kawhi off SA and they definitely don't have the 2nd best record anymore.


Except Aldridge hasn't regressed at all.


His FG% dropped from 51% to 47%, 2 rebounds less per 36 and worst rebounding % in 5 years. His PER dropped from 22 to 18, it hasn't been this low in like 7 years. His TS% went from 56% to 53%, his WS/48 went from .215 to .152. So the eye test, traditional stats and advanced stats all show a regression from last year.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#16 » by PeptoKlepto » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:22 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
PeptoKlepto wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Ya let's not act like the Spurs are some super team. The 2nd best player on the team just had a thread on here talking about how much he's regressed this year. Just look at the guys getting minutes on the team after Kawhi and Aldridge, you got Green, Mills, Parker, Gasol and Lee. You got role players and really aging stars. Harden us surrounded by a good amount of good role players himself. Take Kawhi off SA and they definitely don't have the 2nd best record anymore.


Except Aldridge hasn't regressed at all.


His FG% dropped from 51% to 47%, 2 rebounds less per 36 and worst rebounding % in 5 years. His PER dropped from 22 to 18, it hasn't been this low in like 7 years. His TS% went from 56% to 53%, his WS/48 went from .215 to .152. So the eye test, traditional stats and advanced stats all show a regression from last year.


His TS% is on par with last year and better than two years ago. He's getting to the line more than he did the last two years. He has a better assist rate that the last two years. Better blocking rate than the last two years. His WS/48 and BPM are both on par of where it was two years ago, as well. And at this point he's probably playing the best defense of his career.

There really isn't anything conclusive that he's regressed overall as a player. He's probably right where he usually is. The only thing that's drastically changed is his usage rate.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#17 » by azwfan » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:25 am

I'm all for giving Leonard his props, but I think Lebron is the MVP of the league.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#18 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:32 am

PeptoKlepto wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
PeptoKlepto wrote:
Except Aldridge hasn't regressed at all.


His FG% dropped from 51% to 47%, 2 rebounds less per 36 and worst rebounding % in 5 years. His PER dropped from 22 to 18, it hasn't been this low in like 7 years. His TS% went from 56% to 53%, his WS/48 went from .215 to .152. So the eye test, traditional stats and advanced stats all show a regression from last year.


His TS% is on par with last year and better than two years ago. He's getting to the line more than he did the last two years. He has a better assist rate that the last two years. Better blocking rate than the last two years. His WS/48 and BPM are both on par of where it was two years ago, as well. And at this point he's probably playing the best defense of his career.

There really isn't anything conclusive that he's regressed overall as a player. He's probably right where he usually is. The only thing that's drastically changed is his usage rate.


His TS% is on par with last year even though it's 3% lower which is a good amount for TS%? I'm just saying he's regressed from last year. He's scoring less and less efficiently, rebounding less and his impact is not on the same level as last year. He's still a good player but he's not having the all star impact like he was having last year.
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#19 » by parapooper » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:38 am

He is as good an MVP candidate as a bunch of others (which might be all Lowe was trying to say by "maybe he is actually the MVP") and more deserving of one than some previous MVPs but the arguments there sound a bit forced.

Lowe says his RPM is better - neglecting to mention it's not better than other candidate's (except Harden by a bit).

He brings up DPOYs - when he is clearly not having DPOY impact this season, there is not a chance he gets it this season and the aforementioned RPM has him as slightly above average defensively.

And using "blip in the season where the Spurs where way better with him off the floor" (and still winning) as part of a pro-Kawhi argument seems like bit of a double-edged sword as well.

Weird season. You can pick one of 7 guys (Harden, Westbrook, Kahwi, Bron and 3 GSW guys) and either of those guys as MVP would be fine
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Re: Zach Lowe:" I am not sure Kawhi isn't the MVP of the whole league" "should be #1... 

Post#20 » by Black Jack » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:41 am

Trade him now while he still has value!!!

I can dig him as MVP over Westy and Harden. Especially given the Spurs are probably a star player short in the comparison with GSW and CLE but yet they have the #2 record in the league.

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