Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved?

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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#21 » by Soupman » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:04 am

Ouch.

Yeah some players just lose control and do this kind of stuff. But it is apart of what makes them a high level athlete.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#22 » by Hellcrooner » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:17 am

The troublesome europeans stick to playing Soccer.
There are lots of examples of Soccer players that act like jerks on and off the field.


I think they key is that in europe Soccer is more popular than basket and also easier to play withouth much, you can play with a tin can and to stones to signal de goal.
Also soccer is HEAVILY popular among the lowest classes here, the boys on a marginal neighbourhood in marseille , a gypsy poblado outside Madrid or the sons of out of job Factory workers in Newcastle do follow and play soccer.

Basket draws more people from middle classes in europe.

They are our " ghetto" men and they play soccer so there will a be a lot of them taht go pro and dont now how to behave especially after they become millionare.


Correct me if im wrong but in Usa the "ghetto" sport is Basketball, soccer is not that popular so basketball is the next most inexpensive, you dont need a bat or plastic bases , you dont need a helmet you dont need a stick and skates and protections and etc etc.


So, by the same standart aforementioned its probable that in usa the midle classes are more likely to try Baseball or even hockey, whilst the most played " in the ghetto" is basket = more " ghetto incomingo into the nba".

Thats in my opinión why " euros" seem to be more " polite", has nothing to do with bein euros.

Has nothing to do either with being " White" if someone was doing some stupid asumption based on that.

its has all to do with their background.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#23 » by Brandon-Clyde » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:21 am

MeestR wrote:I think it something to do with being an immigrant, or an honest worker in a non-native country. I'm sure you could find plenty of examples of ill-behavior in domestic European leagues. And you could probably find similar list of well behaved non-native players in those leauges.

I don't think it has anything to do with Euro/Chinese/Aussie/-vs-American. It probably has more to do with behaving as a guest vs otherwise.

This would be my guess as well. Let's face it an American player in the USA who misbehaves off the court and gets in trouble with the law can unless his violation is extremely serious continue to play ball in the NBA as most of the games are in the USA. On the other hand a foreign player in the NBA could easily have his work visa revoked for committing a crime. The potential consequences for misbehaving are not equal
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#24 » by Soupman » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:28 am

Hellcrooner wrote:The troublesome europeans stick to playing Soccer.
There are lots of examples of Soccer players that act like jerks on and off the field.


I think they key is that in europe Soccer is more popular than basket and also easier to play withouth much, you can play with a tin can and to stones to signal de goal.
Also soccer is HEAVILY popular among the lowest classes here, the boys on a marginal neighbourhood in marseille , a gypsy poblado outside Madrid or the sons of out of job Factory workers in Newcastle do follow and play soccer.

Basket draws more people from middle classes in europe.

They are our " ghetto" men and they play soccer so there will a be a lot of them taht go pro and dont now how to behave especially after they become millionare.


Correct me if im wrong but in Usa the "ghetto" sport is Basketball, soccer is not that popular so basketball is the next most inexpensive, you dont need a bat or plastic bases , you dont need a helmet you dont need a stick and skates and protections and etc etc.


So, by the same standart aforementioned its probable that in usa the midle classes are more likely to try Baseball or even hockey, whilst the most played " in the ghetto" is basket = more " ghetto incomingo into the nba".

Thats in my opinión why " euros" seem to be more " polite", has nothing to do with bein euros.

Has nothing to do either with being " White" if someone was doing some stupid asumption based on that.

its has all to do with their background.


Remember most players don't act like this and lose control of their emotions.

Oh and Atletico Madrid is a good football team.
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Re: RE: Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#25 » by knicksh20b » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:30 am

K_chile22 wrote:
2LeTTeRS wrote:I'm not so sure I'd classify Batum as well behaved......

It would be nuts to do so


that's a cheap shot at Batum...clearly hitting below the belt.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#26 » by GlenRiceARoni » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:42 am

I would agree that this is a nature vs nurture type thing.

Its not bc they are black that they are poorly behaved its due to socioeconomic factors that basketball is predominantly played by poor people.

And it is played much more aggressively by people trying to escape their environment. How many times have you seen the suburban kid tense up playing in urban parks and he can barely hit the rim because hes squeezing his b-cheeks so tight?

We are seeing it become less ghetto over the years though as kids get identified earlier and are put down a more traditional, professional like career path to enhance their brand.

A lot of NBA players are actually pretty intelligent and that's definitely something that couldnt be said in the 70s and 80s.

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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#27 » by OrangeBlueSkies » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:03 am

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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#28 » by PockyCandy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:07 am

Pass_the_rock wrote:
2LeTTeRS wrote:I'm not so sure I'd classify Batum as well behaved......


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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#29 » by Black Jack » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:11 am

Soupman wrote:
Dr Aki wrote:
Soupman wrote:
Most working class Americans can't afford to travel internationally regularly.Only 36% of the US population has valid passports(because traveling can be expensive) We are locked into our work schedule and flying across an ocean to another country is expensive.


he's talking about perceptions of americans overseas

he's not talking statistics


The perception of Americans overseas is skewed a little by their media. Just like our media skews almost EVERYTHING that is outside of the US. Negative news sells. Positive(or moderate) news does not sell.


It's not just the media. The Americans who can afford to travel often act super trashy. I'm not talking about poor people from ghettoes and trailer parks. I'm talking well off Americans, who go abroad and act like jerks. Not all of us; but enough that anyone who travels knows EXACTLY what reputation I'm talking about.

There's something in our culture that has bred arrogance. I was in a fairly exotic location one time and wound up having drinks with a couple dudes from Wales. After a couple of drinks they started grilling me about why Americans are so arrogant and always beating their chest about "best country on earth" etc. It's just embarrassing. I hear that every trip I take.

Not saying the other rich country travelers all behave perfectly (hi Aussies :lol: ) but still...it's a thing.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#30 » by Hellcrooner » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:16 am

Black Jack wrote:
Soupman wrote:
Dr Aki wrote:
he's talking about perceptions of americans overseas

he's not talking statistics


The perception of Americans overseas is skewed a little by their media. Just like our media skews almost EVERYTHING that is outside of the US. Negative news sells. Positive(or moderate) news does not sell.


It's not just the media. The Americans who can afford to travel often act super trashy. I'm not talking about poor people from ghettoes and trailer parks. I'm talking well off Americans, who go abroad and act like jerks. Not all of us; but enough that anyone who travels knows EXACTLY what reputation I'm talking about.

There's something in our culture that has bred arrogance. I was in a fairly exotic location one time and wound up having drinks with a couple dudes from Wales. After a couple of drinks they started grilling me about why Americans are so arrogant and always beating their chest about "best country on earth" etc. It's just embarrassing. I hear that every trip I take.

Not saying the other rich country travelers all behave perfectly (hi Aussies :lol: ) but still...it's a thing.
I happen to travel a lot, been to more tan 50 countries.

And my conclusión is that Tourists act like jerks when abroad in general, no matter if their brits, ruskies, amurricans, spaniards, aussies or chinese.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#31 » by DeadHorse » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:29 am

no mention of tony parker?
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#32 » by Hellcrooner » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:30 am

DeadHorse wrote:no mention of tony parker?


Tony Parker is american?, or is he belgian? or french? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#33 » by dabonett » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:39 am

Gini index, soccer.
In Europe welfare is for real, plus soccer is with a wide margin the first sport. Who follows soccer heard of Maradona for sure, but do we want to talk about Ibra, Suarez and Balotelli???
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#34 » by Simmons25 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:16 am

Hmmm interested thread... in light of an article I read yesterday.

It was specifically about Australians playing in Div 1 College and NBA. There are 60 Australians playing Div 1 College and 8 in the NBA... and how a lot of Colleges now are looking internationally for talent where 5 years ago they weren't... if you were Australian you generally played at Saint Mary's because they had an Australian connection.

Dave Patrick... who was an assistant coach at Saint Marys, LSU last year and TCU this year had some interesting thoughts on why Colleges are looking internationally. They basically have to give up everything to come over to the US and go to College and become NBA players. Also the basketball system in Australia is different. People don't turn up to high school games in Australia and make highlight tapes on Youtube and get massive egos before they're even out of nappies.

https://pickandroll.com.au/david-patrick-college-talent/

While Patrick has helped recruit many players to the programs he has been involved with, there are a number of key reasons why he believes Australians have now become so highly valued in college basketball.

“Australian players come in with no ego,” outlined Patrick. “They can be coached. That’s often a big difference between local players and those coming from Australia. Some nationally ranked players come in and join the program and don’t want to be coached.”

Patrick would go on to explain some of the differences in attitude and the value of winning between players coming through the US high school system, rather than those coming across from Australia.

“They also play so much over here [in the US], and sometimes the value of the game, and what it means to win, can sometimes get lost,” shared Patrick.

“Kids don’t get to play as frequently in Australia, and I think means the result has more meaning, more impact. The value of winning [in Australia] is huge.”

When you factor in the tyranny of distance between Australia and the US, those from down under making the trek to play college basketball are also making a massive commitment. Moving from one side of the world to the other, away from family and friends, is a big decision to make for someone so young.

“When you have to travel thousands of miles away from home, to the other side of the world, [those] kids from Australia are focused and will take advantage of every opportunity,” Patrick further added.

“It is a massive commitment. But for them, the opportunity is massive too. Many of Ben’s [Simmons] friends back in Australia would kill for the opportunity to be on a basketball scholarship [over here].”

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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#35 » by DemonLizard » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:31 am

I think that alot of it is because over here we hold NBA ( Or college or even high level HS ) players up on a pedestal..Over there it's a little more relaxed, alot of them came from very average homes and live very average lives.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#36 » by azwfan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:52 am

Black Jack wrote:
Soupman wrote:
Dr Aki wrote:
he's talking about perceptions of americans overseas

he's not talking statistics


The perception of Americans overseas is skewed a little by their media. Just like our media skews almost EVERYTHING that is outside of the US. Negative news sells. Positive(or moderate) news does not sell.


It's not just the media. The Americans who can afford to travel often act super trashy. I'm not talking about poor people from ghettoes and trailer parks. I'm talking well off Americans, who go abroad and act like jerks. Not all of us; but enough that anyone who travels knows EXACTLY what reputation I'm talking about.

There's something in our culture that has bred arrogance. I was in a fairly exotic location one time and wound up having drinks with a couple dudes from Wales. After a couple of drinks they started grilling me about why Americans are so arrogant and always beating their chest about "best country on earth" etc. It's just embarrassing. I hear that every trip I take.

Not saying the other rich country travelers all behave perfectly (hi Aussies :lol: ) but still...it's a thing.


In my experience abroad, it is obvious to me, that we have a nationalist culture (compared to many other countries). We think America is the best and care little for countries outside America. American culture isn't the only one that has this attitude. I'd say this type of view its even more prevalent in China. There may be others, but Americans and Chinese are the two cultures that stand out to me in this regard. I'd say Chinese nationalism is stronger than USA's but... haha, recent results show the good 'ol USA nationalism may be surging so watch out China! haha

At any rate, I agree that Americans have a reputation - but i'll say its not as bad as some reputations of people from some other countries (at least in my experience). Ask a Taiwanese what they think of mainland Chinese tourists. Or a Qatari what they think of Saudis. I'd much rather have our rep.

I'd say in all, our rep is that we are arrogant and clueless to the world outside USA. And i'd say that's pretty much true. Sometimes its embarrassing, but usually i just gotta laugh at some of the idiots that happen to also be my countrymen.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#37 » by PeptoKlepto » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:02 am

I think you should take a look at some European soccer games, broski. Some "well behaved" fellas over there.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#38 » by TheDavinciCHODE » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:30 am

Black Jack wrote:Anybody who has traveled knows Americans have a reputation as the yahoos of the rich world. Maybe Aussies are similar but they're more savvy. Arrogance is often observed.

YEAH there are many exceptions but on the travel circuit it's a bit of a joke how silly Americans act. It's noticeable and embarrassing as an American.



I don't really think that's true at all.

I have lived abroad for nearly 5 years now and am perpetual traveler and E-commerce nomad. I've lived around Europe and now SouthEast Asia, including Thailand and Malaysia. About to move to the Phillipines for some time (and check out the amazing basketball scene!!!)

I think young American tourist in party centers behave poorly, and have a bad reputation for that; however, my experience is that the locals think this about EVERY young group of tourists. In Czech Republic, Americans have a bad rep for drinking and getting rowdy, but it pales in comparison to the reputation of the British or the slimy reputation of Turks and Italians in the center of town.

I experienced the same thing in Budapest, where tons of young American college kids were drunk and loud but so were 99% of groups from everywhere else.

In Thailand right now, Americans are definitely one of the drunk rowdy groups but so are the Brits, Aussies, and Kiwis, and again the reputation always comes from the same group (young college kids on holiday looking for a good time).

I don't think the average American tourist is as negatively viewed (older people, familiies, mid 20's solo travelers etc) at all by most people.

One stereotype that Americans have abroad that is certainly true is that we aren't very "cultured" and don't know much about other places in the world. It's definitely true on average. We just aren't exposed to much in America in terms of other countries, and anything we do get is filtered to us by the media through American eyes. Our views of the French, British, Germans, Italians, and Russians, for example, are pretty much nothing like how they actually are.

So yeah, I definitely agree that there's a negative view of some Americans abroad like that but the view is almost always targeted at one demographic (18-23 year old males).

All of the negatives I've heard of outside of just playing around in good fun is aimed at these people and not your average American. At least that's the vibe I've gotten in Europe and Asia so far.

And BTW, Asian people LOVE Americans. You say you're from America and Thai girls eyes light up like you just bought them a mansion on the beach. Philippines? Forget it. You're having 5 babies THAT SAME DAY with two different girls. Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines love the US.

There's a lot of love out here folks. don't believe the TV.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#39 » by Soupman » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:11 am

Black Jack wrote:
Soupman wrote:
Dr Aki wrote:
he's talking about perceptions of americans overseas

he's not talking statistics


The perception of Americans overseas is skewed a little by their media. Just like our media skews almost EVERYTHING that is outside of the US. Negative news sells. Positive(or moderate) news does not sell.


It's not just the media. The Americans who can afford to travel often act super trashy. I'm not talking about poor people from ghettoes and trailer parks. I'm talking well off Americans, who go abroad and act like jerks. Not all of us; but enough that anyone who travels knows EXACTLY what reputation I'm talking about.

There's something in our culture that has bred arrogance.Depends where you are from. Being really arrogant in the south,the hood/projects or a small conservative town is not a good idea. I was in a fairly exotic location one time and wound up having drinks with a couple dudes from Wales. After a couple of drinks they started grilling me about why Americans are so arrogant and always beating their chest about "best country on earth" etc. It's just embarrassing. I hear that every trip I take.

Define best country on earth. What does that mean?
Like I said the corporate controlled US media perpetuates this stuff. There is a BIG difference from..."I love my country"(patriotism) and "My country/culture is better than your country/culture and if your not one of us your trash/non-person."(arrogance/nationalism).


Not saying the other rich country travelers all behave perfectly (hi Aussies :lol: ) but still...it's a thing.


Only 36% of Americans have valid passports.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#40 » by sule » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:18 am

Ehh...I think most (not all) international players are more of the lunchbox types. The meat-and-potatoes type of guys who have worked hard with the dream of achieving a successful career in the NBA. A lot of them had to struggle to seperate themselves by talent and hardwork enough to even garner interest from international scouts, let alone prove themselves worthy of being drafted and given a real shot by the NBA.

I think to a lot of them, just coming over and making it in the NBA (obviously making millions of dollars) is the dream acheived.

I think the North American culture of stardom and self-branding permeates into basketball culture here much moreso than elsewhere in the world, and for that, we see a lot of players coming up here with twinkles in their eyes of not only becoming successful NBA players (that is part of the dream), but becoming stars and brands in their own right. It's why so many players are trying to branch out into fashion and other business ventures so early in their careers.

I think those dreams of stardom begin in high school for a lot of them (not all of them, obviously), b/c of the attention they get from sportswriters, local news media, the multiple NBA and college scouts, and all the other special attention they get as part of being the star of their respective teams and towns. This attitude I think ends up manifesting itself in different ways among the North American players, some being humbled and working hard when they realize they are only role players. Some role players get huge egos. Some stars shy away from the attention. Some stars become humbled. Some stars get big egos. Etcetera. And some, just go completely off the rails, ruining their careers or getting shut out completely b/c of their on-going behaviour.
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