Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved?

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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#41 » by Soupman » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:25 am

azwfan wrote:
Black Jack wrote:
Soupman wrote:
The perception of Americans overseas is skewed a little by their media. Just like our media skews almost EVERYTHING that is outside of the US. Negative news sells. Positive(or moderate) news does not sell.


It's not just the media. The Americans who can afford to travel often act super trashy. I'm not talking about poor people from ghettoes and trailer parks. I'm talking well off Americans, who go abroad and act like jerks. Not all of us; but enough that anyone who travels knows EXACTLY what reputation I'm talking about.

There's something in our culture that has bred arrogance. I was in a fairly exotic location one time and wound up having drinks with a couple dudes from Wales. After a couple of drinks they started grilling me about why Americans are so arrogant and always beating their chest about "best country on earth" etc. It's just embarrassing. I hear that every trip I take.

Not saying the other rich country travelers all behave perfectly (hi Aussies :lol: ) but still...it's a thing.


In my experience abroad, **it is obvious to me, that we have a nationalist culture** (compared to many other countries). We think America is the best and care little for countries outside America. American culture isn't the only one that has this attitude. I'd say this type of view its even more prevalent in China. There may be others, but Americans and Chinese are the two cultures that stand out to me in this regard. I'd say Chinese nationalism is stronger than USA's but... haha, recent results show the good 'ol USA nationalism may be surging so watch out China! haha

What is your definition of nationalism?

At any rate, I agree that Americans have a reputation - but i'll say its not as bad as some reputations of people from some other countries (at least in my experience). Ask a Taiwanese what they think of mainland Chinese tourists. Or a Qatari what they think of Saudis. I'd much rather have our rep.

I'd say in all, our rep is that we are arrogant and clueless to the world outside USA. And i'd say that's pretty much true. Sometimes its embarrassing, but usually i just gotta laugh at some of the idiots that happen to also be my countrymen.


Patriotic = I love my country.
Arrogant = My country is awesome and every other country is trash.

Patriotism is often confused with nationalism.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#42 » by Sir Psycho Sexy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:44 am

Devassa wrote:You can't T them up if they're cursing you out in a language you don't understand, can you?

That's why Kobe has been caught cursing in Serbian and/or Slovenian numerous times :lol:

Also, I thought that in Europe young British people are considered the worst guests.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#43 » by har13 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:57 am

TheDavinciCHODE wrote:
Black Jack wrote:Anybody who has traveled knows Americans have a reputation as the yahoos of the rich world. Maybe Aussies are similar but they're more savvy. Arrogance is often observed.

YEAH there are many exceptions but on the travel circuit it's a bit of a joke how silly Americans act. It's noticeable and embarrassing as an American.



I don't really think that's true at all.

I have lived abroad for nearly 5 years now and am perpetual traveler and E-commerce nomad. I've lived around Europe and now SouthEast Asia, including Thailand and Malaysia. About to move to the Phillipines for some time (and check out the amazing basketball scene!!!)

I think young American tourist in party centers behave poorly, and have a bad reputation for that; however, my experience is that the locals think this about EVERY young group of tourists. In Czech Republic, Americans have a bad rep for drinking and getting rowdy, but it pales in comparison to the reputation of the British or the slimy reputation of Turks and Italians in the center of town.

I experienced the same thing in Budapest, where tons of young American college kids were drunk and loud but so were 99% of groups from everywhere else.

In Thailand right now, Americans are definitely one of the drunk rowdy groups but so are the Brits, Aussies, and Kiwis, and again the reputation always comes from the same group (young college kids on holiday looking for a good time).

I don't think the average American tourist is as negatively viewed (older people, familiies, mid 20's solo travelers etc) at all by most people.

One stereotype that Americans have abroad that is certainly true is that we aren't very "cultured" and don't know much about other places in the world. It's definitely true on average. We just aren't exposed to much in America in terms of other countries, and anything we do get is filtered to us by the media through American eyes. Our views of the French, British, Germans, Italians, and Russians, for example, are pretty much nothing like how they actually are.

So yeah, I definitely agree that there's a negative view of some Americans abroad like that but the view is almost always targeted at one demographic (18-23 year old males).

All of the negatives I've heard of outside of just playing around in good fun is aimed at these people and not your average American. At least that's the vibe I've gotten in Europe and Asia so far.


And BTW, Asian people LOVE Americans. You say you're from America and Thai girls eyes light up like you just bought them a mansion on the beach. Philippines? Forget it. You're having 5 babies THAT SAME DAY with two different girls. Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines love the US.

There's a lot of love out here folks. don't believe the TV.


Exactly,i'm Greek and i live in Creta island.
I can't remember if i met or if i spoke with Americans ,i mean more than a few words,i actualy only remember a beautiful older couple (about 55-60) but they were the exactly opposite of what people describe here :D ,great persons and human beings,well spoken too.

The big difference is that here people older than 18 can drink(actually to be honest if you look older than 16 they let you drink,no one ask here for IDs to prove your age),especially here is a place call Malia and few others that young tourists go there and drink to death,British are the most popular ones but many Americans too :D,that not end well of course,accusation of rapes all the time,beatings ,drank people all over the road.

If you are a stupid guy then yes,you believe thats how they behave in their real life and that maybe they don't respect the Country they are visiting.

But how truth this is,first of all the first mistake comes from us,if they didn't want it its easy to avoid it,but we do nothing because of the money,its like the drug dealers who invite people to a party and sell them drugs and next day they go mad against them because they destroyed their house. :D

Like it or not America is maybe the first power in the world ,maybe as i outsider i don't like a lot of things that America as a country do but we are not livyng in a perfect world,for me also America is far away than a perfect situation ,i don't know where to start and where to finish so i say nothing :D but still that goes for all the countries,maybe different problems and situations but no country is close to perfect so i can't accuse Americans for being arrogants or if they our proud for their country,if they are also believe that they are better as a persons or clever because they are Americans than a guy even from a third world country then yes,i accuse them for stupidity. :D

Its the way they learn us to be,the propaganda every day,,as an outsider i can't understand why in every game that 2 professional teams playing we must hear the national anthem,only reason they do that is to remind you that you are Americans and you must be proud,maybe with different ways but with the same target is what other countries do,you go to school and you hear you must be proud for being Greek,our ancient brothers brought the light for the west,we always fighting for good reasons,Great Alexander wanted to bring the Greek civilization and educate the east countries.. :lol: :lol:

Peace brothers,we are people of the world,be proud for you country but still criticize the bad,better and more educate people make the countries better and all the world.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#44 » by Soupman » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:13 am

Everyone is arrogant.

It's just to what degree.

We are not all Data or Spock from Star Trek. We are not emotionless machines or vulcans. We are territorial and competitive. We have egos.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#45 » by turnmeup88 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:18 am

Pass_the_rock wrote:
2LeTTeRS wrote:I'm not so sure I'd classify Batum as well behaved......


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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#46 » by SunKing » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:28 am

Hellcrooner wrote:The troublesome europeans stick to playing Soccer.
There are lots of examples of Soccer players that act like jerks on and off the field.

...

its has all to do with their background.


I pretty much agree with you but I think also soccer schools don't mind anymore teaching kids some values down there in Europe. I know some friends and their little brother who went to great formation in big clubs in France, act like spoiled brat but as long as they are good nobody will truly ever say anything.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#47 » by Pennebaker » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:11 am

Depends on what you think "Well-Behaved" means.

I'd agree that non-American players are more fearful of authority. Americans encourage independent spirits, so we probably have a different definition of what can be considered "well-behaved".
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#48 » by lambchop » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:08 am

Imo it has less to do with nationality and more to do with upbringing. Most of the nba bad boys are african americans from the "hood" / impoverished areas.

Batum retaliating like that doesnt surprise me one bit, anyone who has been to paris or Marseille knows that those guys are about that aggressive life haha.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#49 » by Blackfyre » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:02 am

PockyCandy wrote:
Pass_the_rock wrote:
2LeTTeRS wrote:I'm not so sure I'd classify Batum as well behaved......


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How's that a flop :lol: ? He got viciously hit in the nuts.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#50 » by lambchop » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:57 pm

Sir Psycho Sexy wrote:
Devassa wrote:You can't T them up if they're cursing you out in a language you don't understand, can you?

That's why Kobe has been caught cursing in Serbian and/or Slovenian numerous times :lol:

Also, I thought that in Europe young British people are considered the worst guests.


Yes they Kind of are, cause they get reeeally wasted then start throwing up or taking a leak in crowded places. Sometimes the girls will even take a dump mid bus stop with people right there (witnessed all that, not just stories).

When it comes to "grown ups" americans are considered the "worst" mainly because some of them try to forcefully use their english, dont even say thank you after asking for directions or any kind of help.

But some of the Americans ive met or played with were genuinely nice and cool people.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#51 » by Synciere » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:09 pm

No. This is cherry picking in the worst way. It's like when a NBA player goes into the stands or fights he's a thug but let them start a hockey game with a brawl and it's just 'competitive nature.'

This is a race thing. Behavior in predominantly white sports is just as reckless. No one complains about players and managers losing their minds in baseball over a bad call.

Again, this has everything to do with race.


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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#52 » by azwfan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:47 pm

Soupman wrote:
azwfan wrote:
Black Jack wrote:
It's not just the media. The Americans who can afford to travel often act super trashy. I'm not talking about poor people from ghettoes and trailer parks. I'm talking well off Americans, who go abroad and act like jerks. Not all of us; but enough that anyone who travels knows EXACTLY what reputation I'm talking about.

There's something in our culture that has bred arrogance. I was in a fairly exotic location one time and wound up having drinks with a couple dudes from Wales. After a couple of drinks they started grilling me about why Americans are so arrogant and always beating their chest about "best country on earth" etc. It's just embarrassing. I hear that every trip I take.

Not saying the other rich country travelers all behave perfectly (hi Aussies :lol: ) but still...it's a thing.


In my experience abroad, **it is obvious to me, that we have a nationalist culture** (compared to many other countries). We think America is the best and care little for countries outside America. American culture isn't the only one that has this attitude. I'd say this type of view its even more prevalent in China. There may be others, but Americans and Chinese are the two cultures that stand out to me in this regard. I'd say Chinese nationalism is stronger than USA's but... haha, recent results show the good 'ol USA nationalism may be surging so watch out China! haha

What is your definition of nationalism?

At any rate, I agree that Americans have a reputation - but i'll say its not as bad as some reputations of people from some other countries (at least in my experience). Ask a Taiwanese what they think of mainland Chinese tourists. Or a Qatari what they think of Saudis. I'd much rather have our rep.

I'd say in all, our rep is that we are arrogant and clueless to the world outside USA. And i'd say that's pretty much true. Sometimes its embarrassing, but usually i just gotta laugh at some of the idiots that happen to also be my countrymen.


Patriotic = I love my country.
Arrogant = My country is awesome and every other country is trash.

Patriotism is often confused with nationalism.


There's feelings to the left and right and everything in between. I see it as a scale. "I hate my country" "I don't love my country." "I don't know how I feel" "I love my country". "I love my country, and its the best - but other countries have some good qualities too." "I love my country, its the best, and don't know and don't want to know, a darn thing about any other country." "I love my country its the best, rest of the world is trash." "I love my country, its the best, and we should rule the world."

The difference between American culture and a lot of other countries? Our culture is one of "i love my country, its the best..." and start going to the right from there. From my experience, other countries (not China - China is more nationalist than USA is) they start at, "I love my country". Obviously, this doesn't cover everyone in the USA. I think people that travel more are more likely to not be raging nationalists. And like someone said earlier, only 30 something % of the USA has a passport.

I would say "I love my country" (patriotism) is required in order to even have a country. "Its the best" - well I think we can objectively see how that is going to be perceived as arrogant to others who love their country but don't feel the need to rate it as the best or worst or at all.

na·tion·al·ism
ˈnaSH(ə)nəˌlizəm/
noun
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, flag-waving, xenophobia, chauvinism, jingoism
"their extreme nationalism was frightening"
an extreme form of this, especially marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#53 » by Soupman » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:25 pm

azwfan wrote:
Soupman wrote:
azwfan wrote:
In my experience abroad, **it is obvious to me, that we have a nationalist culture** (compared to many other countries). We think America is the best and care little for countries outside America. American culture isn't the only one that has this attitude. I'd say this type of view its even more prevalent in China. There may be others, but Americans and Chinese are the two cultures that stand out to me in this regard. I'd say Chinese nationalism is stronger than USA's but... haha, recent results show the good 'ol USA nationalism may be surging so watch out China! haha

What is your definition of nationalism?

At any rate, I agree that Americans have a reputation - but i'll say its not as bad as some reputations of people from some other countries (at least in my experience). Ask a Taiwanese what they think of mainland Chinese tourists. Or a Qatari what they think of Saudis. I'd much rather have our rep.

I'd say in all, our rep is that we are arrogant and clueless to the world outside USA. And i'd say that's pretty much true. Sometimes its embarrassing, but usually i just gotta laugh at some of the idiots that happen to also be my countrymen.


Patriotic = I love my country.
Arrogant = My country is awesome and every other country is trash.

Patriotism is often confused with nationalism.


There's feelings to the left and right and everything in between. I see it as a scale. "I hate my country" "I don't love my country." "I don't know how I feel" "I love my country". "I love my country, and its the best - but other countries have some good qualities too." "I love my country, its the best, and don't know and don't want to know, a darn thing about any other country." "I love my country its the best, rest of the world is trash." "I love my country, its the best, and we should rule the world."

The difference between American culture and a lot of other countries? Our culture is one of "i love my country, its the best..." and start going to the right from there. From my experience, other countries (not China - China is more nationalist than USA is) they start at, "I love my country". Obviously, this doesn't cover everyone in the USA. I think people that travel more are more likely to not be raging nationalists. And like someone said earlier, only 30 something % of the USA has a passport.

I would say "I love my country" (patriotism) is required in order to even have a country. "Its the best" - well I think we can objectively see how that is going to be perceived as arrogant to others who love their country but don't feel the need to rate it as the best or worst or at all.

na·tion·al·ism
ˈnaSH(ə)nəˌlizəm/
noun
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, flag-waving, xenophobia, chauvinism, jingoism
"their extreme nationalism was frightening"
an extreme form of this, especially marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.


"Nationalism - loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially : a sense of national consciousness (see consciousness 1c) exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups <Intense nationalism was one of the causes of the war.

Patriotism - love that a person feels for his or her country.

Nationalism has a number of near-synonyms, each of which carries its own distinct meaning. Patriotism is similar insofar as it emphasizes strong feelings for one’s country, but it does not necessarily imply an attitude of superiority. Sectionalism resembles nationalism in its suggestion of a geopolitical group pursuing its self-interest, but the group in question is usually smaller than an entire nation. Jingoism closely resembles nationalism in suggesting feelings of cultural superiority, but unlike nationalism, it always implies military aggressiveness."

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationalism

Like I said, patriotism is often confused with nationalism. Patriotism is common. Nationalism can be extremely dangerous.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#54 » by Black Jack » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:07 pm

azwfan wrote:
Soupman wrote:
azwfan wrote:
In my experience abroad, **it is obvious to me, that we have a nationalist culture** (compared to many other countries). We think America is the best and care little for countries outside America. American culture isn't the only one that has this attitude. I'd say this type of view its even more prevalent in China. There may be others, but Americans and Chinese are the two cultures that stand out to me in this regard. I'd say Chinese nationalism is stronger than USA's but... haha, recent results show the good 'ol USA nationalism may be surging so watch out China! haha

What is your definition of nationalism?

At any rate, I agree that Americans have a reputation - but i'll say its not as bad as some reputations of people from some other countries (at least in my experience). Ask a Taiwanese what they think of mainland Chinese tourists. Or a Qatari what they think of Saudis. I'd much rather have our rep.

I'd say in all, our rep is that we are arrogant and clueless to the world outside USA. And i'd say that's pretty much true. Sometimes its embarrassing, but usually i just gotta laugh at some of the idiots that happen to also be my countrymen.


Patriotic = I love my country.
Arrogant = My country is awesome and every other country is trash.

Patriotism is often confused with nationalism.


There's feelings to the left and right and everything in between. I see it as a scale. "I hate my country" "I don't love my country." "I don't know how I feel" "I love my country". "I love my country, and its the best - but other countries have some good qualities too." "I love my country, its the best, and don't know and don't want to know, a darn thing about any other country." "I love my country its the best, rest of the world is trash." "I love my country, its the best, and we should rule the world."

The difference between American culture and a lot of other countries? Our culture is one of "i love my country, its the best..." and start going to the right from there. From my experience, other countries (not China - China is more nationalist than USA is) they start at, "I love my country". Obviously, this doesn't cover everyone in the USA. I think people that travel more are more likely to not be raging nationalists. And like someone said earlier, only 30 something % of the USA has a passport.

I would say "I love my country" (patriotism) is required in order to even have a country. "Its the best" - well I think we can objectively see how that is going to be perceived as arrogant to others who love their country but don't feel the need to rate it as the best or worst or at all.

na·tion·al·ism
ˈnaSH(ə)nəˌlizəm/
noun
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, flag-waving, xenophobia, chauvinism, jingoism
"their extreme nationalism was frightening"
an extreme form of this, especially marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.


Al Franken had a good line...conservatives love their country like a small child loves their parent: uncritically, almost worshipful, without seeing any possible wrong. Liberals love their country like a spouse sees their longtime partner: with great care, while seeing the faults and accepting them.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#55 » by NZB2323 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Synciere wrote:No. This is cherry picking in the worst way. It's like when a NBA player goes into the stands or fights he's a thug but let them start a hockey game with a brawl and it's just 'competitive nature.'

This is a race thing. Behavior in predominantly white sports is just as reckless. No one complains about players and managers losing their minds in baseball over a bad call.

Again, this has everything to do with race.


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There are white American players in the NBA and black foreign players. This has nothing to do with race.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#56 » by Synciere » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:34 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
Synciere wrote:No. This is cherry picking in the worst way. It's like when a NBA player goes into the stands or fights he's a thug but let them start a hockey game with a brawl and it's just 'competitive nature.'

This is a race thing. Behavior in predominantly white sports is just as reckless. No one complains about players and managers losing their minds in baseball over a bad call.

Again, this has everything to do with race.


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There are white American players in the NBA and black foreign players. This has nothing to do with race.


The fact that there are white American players or black foreign players doesn't mean this isn't about race. Again, I pointed out other sports which are predominantly white who have as much if not more violence associated without regards to play and they are not vilified in the same way. They are not described in the same way. This question, whether right or wrong, is never even brought up in those sports. If you would like to use examples that transcend sports, look at the descriptions that describe white bikers brawling or riots after championships in Canada vs. riots of African Americans here in the States. Look at the descriptions.

Listen, it's not right, it's not the way we want it to be, but putting our heads in the sand and pointing out single exceptions does not invalidate what does or doesn't exist in regards to race.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#57 » by lamscott » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:35 pm

They act less self entitled. Thats for sure.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#58 » by xRapHeadx » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:36 pm

The OP tried to thinly veil his racism. Hilarious.
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#59 » by NZB2323 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:49 pm

Synciere wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
Synciere wrote:No. This is cherry picking in the worst way. It's like when a NBA player goes into the stands or fights he's a thug but let them start a hockey game with a brawl and it's just 'competitive nature.'

This is a race thing. Behavior in predominantly white sports is just as reckless. No one complains about players and managers losing their minds in baseball over a bad call.

Again, this has everything to do with race.


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There are white American players in the NBA and black foreign players. This has nothing to do with race.


The fact that there are white American players or black foreign players doesn't mean this isn't about race. Again, I pointed out other sports which are predominantly white who have as much if not more violence associated without regards to play and they are not vilified in the same way. They are not described in the same way. This question, whether right or wrong, is never even brought up in those sports. If you would like to use examples that transcend sports, look at the descriptions that describe white bikers brawling or riots after championships in Canada vs. riots of African Americans here in the States. Look at the descriptions.

Listen, it's not right, it's not the way we want it to be, but putting our heads in the sand and pointing out single exceptions does not invalidate what does or doesn't exist in regards to race.


So we can't have a discussion about technical fouls, off-court issues, and how Americans act because these discussions aren't happening on the MLB board or NHL board? :crazy: :lol:
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Re: Are Non-American Players More Well-Behaved? 

Post#60 » by Synciere » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:52 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
Synciere wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
There are white American players in the NBA and black foreign players. This has nothing to do with race.


The fact that there are white American players or black foreign players doesn't mean this isn't about race. Again, I pointed out other sports which are predominantly white who have as much if not more violence associated without regards to play and they are not vilified in the same way. They are not described in the same way. This question, whether right or wrong, is never even brought up in those sports. If you would like to use examples that transcend sports, look at the descriptions that describe white bikers brawling or riots after championships in Canada vs. riots of African Americans here in the States. Look at the descriptions.

Listen, it's not right, it's not the way we want it to be, but putting our heads in the sand and pointing out single exceptions does not invalidate what does or doesn't exist in regards to race.


So we can't have a discussion about technical fouls, off-court issues, and how Americans act because these discussions aren't happening on the MLB board or NHL board? :crazy: :lol:


Not what I said. I said it says something that those conversations do not happen on those boards, in spite of the fact that similar or worse behavior is displayed.

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