Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit?

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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#381 » by lordjeff05 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:46 pm

If I were to create an ideal complimentary player for AD, I would have told you that it would be a player who can shoot from 3, yet is big enough to guard the post, and can rebound. Ideally that player would have the handle to get past bigger guys, and the post moves to punish smaller guys, thereby creating a matchup problem.

Demarcus fits all of that really well. I care more about him being used in a way that compliments AD, far more than I care about him being used in a way that maximizes his own potential.

If he can play that complimentary role with the starters, and play sub back in with the bench, like he has been doing, then he will be an amazing asset and fit for this team. When he subs in, feed him in the post and let him beat up on bench bigs. Maybe that causes a dip in his own numbers, but if it creates wins then I think we can sell him on it.

The four strategic moves that I want the Pels to make this offseason (outside of personnel) are:

1) Change Boogie's positioning from the top of the key to the corner 3. It creates more space. Give him free reign to camp out there when playing with the starters. Let him space the floor and attack closeouts.

2) Slow the pace of the offense so Boogie doesn't get exhausted and implement some elements of the triangle.

3)Recommit to defensive rebounding

4) Have our guard practice their entry passes all summer long so that we are getting the ball to AD and Boogie in the right area, and making it easier on them when they post up/ iso.
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#382 » by sackings916 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:00 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:If I were to create an ideal complimentary player for AD, I would have told you that it would be a player who can shoot from 3, yet is big enough to guard the post, and can rebound. Ideally that player would have the handle to get past bigger guys, and the post moves to punish smaller guys, thereby creating a matchup problem.

Demarcus fits all of that really well. I care more about him being used in a way that compliments AD, far more than I care about him being used in a way that maximizes his own potential.

If he can play that complimentary role with the starters, and play sub back in with the bench, like he has been doing, then he will be an amazing asset and fit for this team. When he subs in, feed him in the post and let him beat up on bench bigs. Maybe that causes a dip in his own numbers, but if it creates wins then I think we can sell him on it.

The four strategic moves that I want the Pels to make this offseason (outside of personnel) are:

1) Change Boogie's positioning from the top of the key to the corner 3. It creates more space. Give him free reign to camp out there when playing with the starters. Let him space the floor and attack closeouts.

2) Slow the pace of the offense so Boogie doesn't get exhausted and implement some elements of the triangle.

3)Recommit to defensive rebounding

4) Have our guard practice their entry passes all summer long so that we are getting the ball to AD and Boogie in the right area, and making it easier on them when they post up/ iso.


So basically a defensive big who can rebound with the offense of a guard on the perimeter and a post game to go with it?
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#383 » by BadWolf » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:29 pm

That. Not Kawhi or Curry or LeBron, it's got to be the unicorn.
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Re: RE: Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#384 » by City of Trees » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:36 pm

Hadley wrote:Obviously. Both are playing the same Position. Davis needs to learn that he has to play at Center.

But I'm sure Cousins is play on a different Team next Year.

Do the Pelicans gave up Hield, top 10 1st(likely), and a high 2nd. Do they get the same value back in trading Cousins away?

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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#385 » by lordjeff05 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:39 pm

sackings916 wrote:
lordjeff05 wrote:If I were to create an ideal complimentary player for AD, I would have told you that it would be a player who can shoot from 3, yet is big enough to guard the post, and can rebound. Ideally that player would have the handle to get past bigger guys, and the post moves to punish smaller guys, thereby creating a matchup problem.

Demarcus fits all of that really well. I care more about him being used in a way that compliments AD, far more than I care about him being used in a way that maximizes his own potential.

If he can play that complimentary role with the starters, and play sub back in with the bench, like he has been doing, then he will be an amazing asset and fit for this team. When he subs in, feed him in the post and let him beat up on bench bigs. Maybe that causes a dip in his own numbers, but if it creates wins then I think we can sell him on it.

The four strategic moves that I want the Pels to make this offseason (outside of personnel) are:

1) Change Boogie's positioning from the top of the key to the corner 3. It creates more space. Give him free reign to camp out there when playing with the starters. Let him space the floor and attack closeouts.

2) Slow the pace of the offense so Boogie doesn't get exhausted and implement some elements of the triangle.

3)Recommit to defensive rebounding

4) Have our guard practice their entry passes all summer long so that we are getting the ball to AD and Boogie in the right area, and making it easier on them when they post up/ iso.


So basically a defensive big who can rebound with the offense of a guard on the perimeter and a post game to go with it?


Yep, like I said, that was ideal, a player you would make up from scratch. Having said that, Cousins hits a lot of those marks. And while it is really early, the Davis and Cousins pairing has yielded only 99 points per possession 100 possessions. For reference, that is lower than the best defense in the league. Of course the same things that we say about the offense could be said about the defense. Just as the offense could be better, the defense could get worse as the sample size increases. Still the ability to do that well on d for even 9 games, means AD and Cousins have it in them to anchor a really good defense.
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#386 » by sackings916 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:49 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:
sackings916 wrote:
lordjeff05 wrote:If I were to create an ideal complimentary player for AD, I would have told you that it would be a player who can shoot from 3, yet is big enough to guard the post, and can rebound. Ideally that player would have the handle to get past bigger guys, and the post moves to punish smaller guys, thereby creating a matchup problem.

Demarcus fits all of that really well. I care more about him being used in a way that compliments AD, far more than I care about him being used in a way that maximizes his own potential.

If he can play that complimentary role with the starters, and play sub back in with the bench, like he has been doing, then he will be an amazing asset and fit for this team. When he subs in, feed him in the post and let him beat up on bench bigs. Maybe that causes a dip in his own numbers, but if it creates wins then I think we can sell him on it.

The four strategic moves that I want the Pels to make this offseason (outside of personnel) are:

1) Change Boogie's positioning from the top of the key to the corner 3. It creates more space. Give him free reign to camp out there when playing with the starters. Let him space the floor and attack closeouts.

2) Slow the pace of the offense so Boogie doesn't get exhausted and implement some elements of the triangle.

3)Recommit to defensive rebounding

4) Have our guard practice their entry passes all summer long so that we are getting the ball to AD and Boogie in the right area, and making it easier on them when they post up/ iso.


So basically a defensive big who can rebound with the offense of a guard on the perimeter and a post game to go with it?


Yep, like I said, that was ideal, a player you would make up from scratch. Having said that, Cousins hits a lot of those marks. And while it is really early, the Davis and Cousins pairing has yielded only 99 points per possession 100 possessions. For reference, that is lower than the best defense in the league. Of course the same things that we say about the offense could be said about the defense. Just as the offense could be better, the defense could get worse as the sample size increases. Still the ability to do that well on d for even 9 games, means AD and Cousins have it in them to anchor a really good defense.


You do realize a big with that skill set is a hall of fame level player right? Those don't exactly grow on trees.
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#387 » by The Penguin » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:55 pm

sackings916 wrote:
lordjeff05 wrote:If I were to create an ideal complimentary player for AD, I would have told you that it would be a player who can shoot from 3, yet is big enough to guard the post, and can rebound. Ideally that player would have the handle to get past bigger guys, and the post moves to punish smaller guys, thereby creating a matchup problem.

Demarcus fits all of that really well. I care more about him being used in a way that compliments AD, far more than I care about him being used in a way that maximizes his own potential.

If he can play that complimentary role with the starters, and play sub back in with the bench, like he has been doing, then he will be an amazing asset and fit for this team. When he subs in, feed him in the post and let him beat up on bench bigs. Maybe that causes a dip in his own numbers, but if it creates wins then I think we can sell him on it.

The four strategic moves that I want the Pels to make this offseason (outside of personnel) are:

1) Change Boogie's positioning from the top of the key to the corner 3. It creates more space. Give him free reign to camp out there when playing with the starters. Let him space the floor and attack closeouts.

2) Slow the pace of the offense so Boogie doesn't get exhausted and implement some elements of the triangle.

3)Recommit to defensive rebounding

4) Have our guard practice their entry passes all summer long so that we are getting the ball to AD and Boogie in the right area, and making it easier on them when they post up/ iso.


So basically a defensive big who can rebound with the offense of a guard on the perimeter and a post game to go with it?



So the perfect compliment for Anthony Davis is Anthony Davis.
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#388 » by lordjeff05 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:24 pm

sackings916 wrote:
You do realize a big with that skill set is a hall of fame level player right? Those don't exactly grow on trees.


Not to be overly snarky, but you do realize what the term "ideal" means, right?
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#389 » by thomchatt3rton » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:24 pm

og15 wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:
joedumars1 wrote:Not huge names, but I think Ben and Sheed would eat these two alive. Cousins would get all frustrated.


Cousins IS a modern day Sheed and thats why your duo isnt at the top of the list. I loved Sheed but as talented as he was he slacked big time over his career. He wasn't even at his most dominant on Detroit. Imagine if he didn't have that bad streak. But I think your combo would give anyone fits.

Sheed was a much lower volume player and a much better defender. Sheed's impact was generally better than his numbers as opposed to Cousins who whether true or not, people are more inclined to say that his numbers overrate his impact.

I'm assuming you are comparing in terms of getting technicals and such though, right?


I don't like all these Sheed/DMC comparisons- I think they're primarily superficial (like you say based really only on the technical fouls etc).

The fundamental difference between the two- a difference which makes any comparison meaningless imo- is that Cousins seems capable of deeply passive-aggressive behavior- but Sheed didn't have a passive-aggressive bone in his body.

DMC seems like he goes in these brooding funks where it's "me against the world" and it's almost like he's taking out his frustrations with his team/teammates/whomever in little passive sabotage-y ways. Wallace wasn't like that at all.

And the point that Wallace was lower volume (a point I've made myself actually) is important; and not simply because it means "Sheed wasn't capable of doing as much damage" (which would be like getting off on a technicality). I think it speaks to Rasheed's having a more healthy and natural sense of team- a sense Cousins may or may not have.

What you say about impact-vs-stats is right-on too, I think.

Maybe I'm wrong- maybe my memory of Wallace is faulty or I'm guilty of giving him a pass because I like him. POR fans could probably correct if I'm wrong. Kings fans too- maybe I haven't seen enough of DMC to have a valid opinion on him (I think i've seen enough though).
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#390 » by lordjeff05 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:25 pm

The Penguin wrote:
So the perfect compliment for Anthony Davis is Anthony Davis.


Nah, the perfect compliment to Anthony Davis would be thicker than AD, and a better shooter from 3.

For reference Demarcus is tied for first in 3 point attempts per game for a center, and tied for third for 3 point attempts from a power forward.
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#391 » by Jkam31 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:29 pm

City of Trees wrote:
Hadley wrote:Obviously. Both are playing the same Position. Davis needs to learn that he has to play at Center.

But I'm sure Cousins is play on a different Team next Year.

Do the Pelicans gave up Hield, top 10 1st(likely), and a high 2nd. Do they get the same value back in trading Cousins away?

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Without giving them a training camp or non 10 day contract players around them.


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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#392 » by sackings916 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:31 pm

lordjeff05 wrote:
sackings916 wrote:
You do realize a big with that skill set is a hall of fame level player right? Those don't exactly grow on trees.


Not to be overly snarky, but you do realize what the term "ideal" means, right?


Well my point was that you described a perfect basketball player who would be an "ideal fit" for every team in the league.
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#393 » by lordjeff05 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:48 pm

sackings916 wrote:
lordjeff05 wrote:
sackings916 wrote:
You do realize a big with that skill set is a hall of fame level player right? Those don't exactly grow on trees.


Not to be overly snarky, but you do realize what the term "ideal" means, right?


Well my point was that you described a perfect basketball player who would be an "ideal fit" for every team in the league.


I appreciate your point, but I am going to push back a little bit here. First off, I mentioned my ideal fit, just to show how close Boogie comes to meeting it. He can guard the post, hit the three, and take his man off the dribble. So that backups the point that not only is Boogie a great fit, he is near an ideal fit for Davis. That was my argument.

Secondly, while I described a great player, I also described a complimentary player, that fits a specific role. For some players that ideal compliment would be a rim runner that can provide rim protection, or a 3 and D wing stopper, or a pass first point guard, or a 3 and D point guard. The best player to put next to AD is one that spaces the floor on offense and guards bigger players on defense.
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#394 » by Alonzo_Morning » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:01 am

It's painfullly obvious 10 games in that this is going to work
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#395 » by GlenRiceARoni » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:53 pm

Noticed Cousins sat last night and the Pelicans destroyed Houston by dropping a 130 burger on their face.

Its painfully obvious 10 games in that this is not going to work

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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#396 » by lordjeff05 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:56 pm

GlenRiceARoni wrote:Noticed Cousins sat last night and the Pelicans destroyed Houston by dropping a 130 burger on their face.

Its painfully obvious 10 games in that this is not going to work

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You notice that Solomon Hill scored 30 points in that game? That's about 23 points over his season average. You notice too when the Pels beat a red hot Blazers team by 25 points with Demarcus starting?

No one is going who was in favor of the trade is going to give up on it before they all get a training camp together. Nylon Calculus did a great piece on the pairing recently. A lot of the shooting is straight up fluky. That's going to get ironed out over the course of the year.

My bigger question is whether the great defense they are playing together will hold over the course of a season, or is that as fluky as the missed shots.
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#397 » by 76ciology » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:24 am

No. One of them would need to be a full time stretch 4 that wouldn't maximize one of them.
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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#398 » by Jon1798 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:31 am

Pelicans are 5-4 in March

Kings are 2-7 in March

I think we can start to see which direction this is headed.
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Re: RE: Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#399 » by GlenRiceARoni » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:01 am

You notice that Solomon Hill scored 30 points in that game? That's about 23 points over his season average.


I dont see how this helps your argument.

When the Pelicans used a more traditional Iineup due to Cousins injury they scored 128 points and unlocked a 30 point, six treys, 9 FTA game game out of Solomon Hill. You really think he's going to often uncork one of those games playing with a frontcourt of Hill, Davis AND Cousins? Not likely.



You notice too when the Pels beat a red hot Blazers team by 25 points with Demarcus starting?


The Blazers shot 30% from the field and played Napier, Connaughton, Aminu, Vonleh, and Layman a combined 88 minutes. I'd say this was a good win but might be one of those "fluky" off nights you were referring to.


My bigger question is whether the great defense they are playing together will hold over the course of a season


I haven't reached your conclusion that this is a great defensive team. Like at all.

And I looked into the nylon calculus article. I drew the exact opposite conclusions you did. To me the numbers show the pelicans are taking more 3s and more shots near the rim but converting a FAR lower percentage. Certainly outside any comfortable margin of error. It certainly looks like they arent getting the same quality looks.


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Re: Are DeMarcus Cousins & Anthony Davis even a good fit? 

Post#400 » by Jables » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:30 am

Jon1798 wrote:Pelicans are 5-4 in March

Kings are 2-7 in March

I think we can start to see which direction this is headed.

Indeed, universal mediocrity.

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