Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter

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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#81 » by Mister Ze » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:28 pm

Simmons25 wrote:
Master Ze wrote:
TTP wrote:
Short-sighted thought processes and arbitrary rules like the bolded are how the Magic are stuck in the spot they're in - it's how teams become stuck in mediocrity and end up having to rebuild again in a few years.

You're acting like the 76ers are 3rd in the East or something. They have a few promising prospects but that's about it. How long until they have a winning season? 7-8 years after the fire sale? Wow really nice rebuild by Hinkie, he's a real genius.

Embiid was such a great pick too, he's not gonna be plagued with injuries at all throughout his career. :roll:


LOL wow you are bitter aren't you. :lol: A "few promising prospects but that's about it". :lol:

Embiid - Potential superstar
Simmons - Considered a generational talent... that Magic Johnson called the most complete player since Lebron.

Yeah a lot of teams would kill for 2 players like that to build around.

But according to you because we aren't "3rd in the East" with our #1 pick having missed the entire season and Embiid having played only 30 odd games on minutes restriction coming off 2.5 years out..... you've looked at some standings and thought... Gee Philly are still **** :lol: :lol: :lol:

No I looked at the standings last year and thought wow 10-72 is the third worst record in league history, the Sixers are a joke. Embiid missing all those games this season is a cause for concern. Like I said, he's gonna be plagued with injuries throughout his career. Simmons is really your teams only hope but too bad he's surrounded by solidified scrubs.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#82 » by Mister Ze » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:31 pm

TTP wrote:
Master Ze wrote:
TTP wrote:
I'd bet even money that the Sixers are a playoff team next year. We can do an avatar bet for next season instead if you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is.

It's also been less than 4 years since Hinkie was hired (and he was employed less than 3) if you want to keep your information accurate - it's easier to just be ignorant and spread misinformation though.


Let's do an avatar bet then. If the Sixers do make the playoffs next year good for them.


Alright, if the Sixers make the playoffs in the 2017-18 season, I choose your avatar. If the Sixers miss the playoffs in the 2017-18 season, you choose mine.

The avatar can be enforced immediately following the end of the 2017-18 regular season. Said avatar must be displayed until the final game of the 2018-2019 playoffs (thus it will be displayed for all of the 2017-18 playoffs and the following season). Avatars must comply with forum rules obviously.

Deal? Quote to confirm.

Deal. As soon as the Sixers clinch/are eliminated from the playoffs we can start it up.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#83 » by TTP » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:32 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Master Ze wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Of course they haven't won anything yet but you can celebrate the direction he took them after the disasterous Bynum trade has put them in an excellent position today? Do we need to see a 50 win season before making that proclamation? Arent the Wolves in a better position now then they were before they traded Love despite currently winning less games? Why are people being so black and white with this?

And would people please stop exaggerating the time line. Hinkie was implored as GM for 35 months, not 5 years. You can't blame him for the horrible decisions made before he was hired or for the slow direction Colangleo has taken them in his 12 months on the job.

They went 10-72 in 2016, third worst record in NBA history and still they have a losing record for the foreseeable future. There's nothing for me to celebrate about that. I celebrate how fast Danny Ainge turned around the Celtics after the KG trade + Pierce rebuild.

As a franchise you can sell tickets with wins or a promising future and I'm just not a fan of the latter when it takes this long.


If you're quoting last seasons record then you're still not understanding (or refusing to acknowledge) the entire picture. The Sixers were set up to lose on purpose last year. 2 lottery picks from the rebuild, Embiid and Saric, weren't in uniform and a 3rd, Carter Williams, had been traded for a future lottery pick. If they didn't go 10-72 they miss out on Simmons, potentially one of the best players on the league and undoubtedly the best player in an otherwise weak draft. Even mentioning their past records is pointless.

I expect them to make the playoffs next season so I don't see the the same losing record in the foreseeable future you do. Their 2 best players have played a total of 700 minutes combined this season and they have 2 more lottery picks in a very strong guard heavy draft. They could be jockeying for A top 2 team in the conference as soon as 2018-19.


Yep. They're projected to finish with ~31 wins (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2017-nba-predictions/?ex_cid=rrpromo) despite their top 2 players playing a combined 786 minutes.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#84 » by TTP » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:32 pm

Master Ze wrote:
TTP wrote:
Master Ze wrote:
Let's do an avatar bet then. If the Sixers do make the playoffs next year good for them.


Alright, if the Sixers make the playoffs in the 2017-18 season, I choose your avatar. If the Sixers miss the playoffs in the 2017-18 season, you choose mine.

The avatar can be enforced immediately following the end of the 2017-18 regular season. Said avatar must be displayed until the final game of the 2018-2019 playoffs (thus it will be displayed for all of the 2017-18 playoffs and the following season). Avatars must comply with forum rules obviously.

Deal? Quote to confirm.

Deal. As soon as the Sixers clinch/are eliminated from the playoffs we can start it up.


Alright, going to add it to my signature to remember.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#85 » by Prez » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:36 pm

Trades like this and the MCW for Lakers pick trade are what the Hinkie supporters are talking about. The dude didn't just blow it up and tank with zero regard for anything else like people like to simplify it to. He made some pretty outstanding auxiliary trades along the way and pretty clearly has a great mind for the business side of the sport. It's just a joke that this dude isn't employed right now and there's such a huge chunk of the fan population and media who legitimately believe he sucked as a GM.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#86 » by eagereyez » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:40 pm

TTP wrote:There's also a fairly good chance they finish with a worse record than the Sixers - they're only 2.5 games apart right now and the teams appear to be on opposite trajectories.

Reports are SAC is looking to dump every half-way decent player left on their roster. This after replacing a top 15 player in the NBA with one of the worst players in the league. With Embiid returning to the 76ers lineup, I see the Kings finishing with a worse record as a near certainty.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#87 » by Tacoma » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:45 pm

Master Ze wrote:
TTP wrote:
Master Ze wrote:People keep acting like the 76ers got a great rebuild.

They started their little fire sale in 2013. It's 2017 now and they're still a lottery team.

Granted they have Simmons and more picks on the way, but before we praise Hinkie let's see how long it takes them to win a playoff series... Rebuilds shouldn't last more than 3 seasons imo.


Short-sighted thought processes and arbitrary rules like the bolded are how the Magic are stuck in the spot they're in - it's how teams become stuck in mediocrity and end up having to rebuild again in a few years.

You're acting like the 76ers are 3rd in the East or something. They have a few promising prospects but that's about it. How long until they have a winning season? 7-8 years after the fire sale? Wow really nice rebuild by Hinkie, he's a real genius.

Embiid was such a great pick too, he's not gonna be plagued with injuries at all throughout his career. :roll:


Going with your estimate that Hinke started his tank and rebuild plan in 2013, that means he would be drafting 19-20 yr old prospects from 2014 to 2016. Given that players don't normally start their peak until arond 25-27 years old, that means it's going to be at least 5 years before you start to see results. That would be around 2018-2019 if you assume they started the tank in 2013. So, in other words, contrary to your opinion, they're right on schedule.

And to your question "How long before they have a winning season?", the point is not about just having a winning season (like Toronto, for example, since you're a Raptors fan). The point and the plan was to build a team that can contend for a Championship. They have more Top-10 lottery picks coming that are assets they can use or trade. They are on the right track.

The Sixers are 13-11 so far in 2017 and looking up. Hinke took a lot of criticism for his "extreme tank" plan. It was very risky and likely cost him his job. But the strategy paid off and they're positioned well for Championship contention in the post-LeBron world beginning in a few years. Unfortunately for Hinke, Colangelo gets to reap the benefits.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#88 » by eskimo » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:47 pm

Master Ze wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
Master Ze wrote:People keep acting like the 76ers got a great rebuild.

They started their little fire sale in 2013. It's 2017 now and they're still a lottery team.

Granted they have Simmons and more picks on the way, but before we praise Hinkie let's see how long it takes them to win a playoff series... Rebuilds shouldn't last more than 3 seasons imo.


Why? Why a timeline? Why be mediocre for decades and get mad a rebuild takes more than three years?

Hinkie is amazing. He deserves all the credit.

What credit does he deserve? They have young promising players but almost 5 years since the fire sale they're still not anywhere close to the playoffs. Are they making the playoffs next season? I don't think so.

They've drafted Embiid, Noel, and Simmons, all of whom have had serious injuries that could persist in the long run.

Again, let's celebrate and praise Hinkie because the 76ers are "gonna" be good, they're not good yet though.


Noel had an ACL injury which was major but he has fully recovered and now played 3 more years without a recurrence and seems to have lost nothing athletically afterwards. The Plica surgery this year was very minor and was called elective by the Sixers.

Simmons seems to have recovered just fine from his Jones fracture. He is running, cutting, jumping and doing box jumps. Why the Sixers are holding him out is unclear but he looks healthy and has one more doc visit and scan this week.

Embiid is the big question mark but it has nothing to do with his foot. His foot is 100% healed and has caused no problems since the operation which occurred about 18 months ago now. The big concern with Embiid's health is that he plays too reckless and I think the Sixers are working with him on that. He's moving around on the court well and should be back soon after his bone bruise.

Now in terms of your timeline, Hinkie was GM for only 3 years. It hasn't even been 4 years yet since he was originally hired so your timeline is a bit off there. Furthermore, Hinkie said it would take 5 years from the very beginning. The team put up a 10-3 record with Embiid healthy. Heck the team has been 14-10 since Dec 30th so they haven't even been bad for awhile now. So you ask are we making the playoffs next year - the answer is we are probably making the playoffs. I think the question for most 76ers fans is if Embiid returns could we make the playoffs this year but that becomes a bit less likely with each passing week.

Here's a stat for you to ponder. When Embiid is playing and Okafor is not playing the team has a Net Rating of +7.5 points per 100 possessions. That level of success is consistent with a 60 win team. So if Embiid plays 32 mins and we play neutral ball without him on the court that'd give the team a net rating of +5 with an expected win output of 54 games. Well let's say we go by Noel's current stats at -6 net rating playing 20 mpg. That'd give the team a net rating of +3 and an expected win output of 49 wins.

Now that's our current bare bones team full of young guys who are still on the upswing of their careers (TJ, Dario, TLC, Noel, Holmes) and Ben Simmons who we have yet to see. We also have about $65M in cap space that we can spend. We have a lottery pick if we don't make the playoffs with Sac swap rights as well as the Lakers top 3 protected pick.

So the situation is not so bleak here in Philly. We're going to be just fine thanks to our fallen captain, Sam Hinkie.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#89 » by eskimo » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:49 pm

TTP wrote:
Master Ze wrote:
TTP wrote:
Alright, if the Sixers make the playoffs in the 2017-18 season, I choose your avatar. If the Sixers miss the playoffs in the 2017-18 season, you choose mine.

The avatar can be enforced immediately following the end of the 2017-18 regular season. Said avatar must be displayed until the final game of the 2018-2019 playoffs (thus it will be displayed for all of the 2017-18 playoffs and the following season). Avatars must comply with forum rules obviously.

Deal? Quote to confirm.

Deal. As soon as the Sixers clinch/are eliminated from the playoffs we can start it up.


Alright, going to add it to my signature to remember.


You're pretty close to clinching your Avatar bet with HoosierDaddy. Have you figured out what you want him to put up?
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#90 » by Lazy10 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:07 pm

76ers fans, please the find that video of NIK ROCKS!
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#91 » by WVU » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:10 pm

Lazy10 wrote:76ers fans, please the find that video of NIK ROCKS!


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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#92 » by madmaxmedia » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:36 pm

Master Ze wrote:People keep acting like the 76ers got a great rebuild.

They started their little fire sale in 2013. It's 2017 now and they're still a lottery team.

Granted they have Simmons and more picks on the way, but before we praise Hinkie let's see how long it takes them to win a playoff series... Rebuilds shouldn't last more than 3 seasons imo.


It depends on what you have after the rebuild. If the Sixers end up with the Lakers pick this year and their own pick, plus potentially swapping picks with Sacramento this year, plus a 2019 Sacramento 1st rounder, AND all the guys they have now? (considering Simmons hasn't even played yet!) I think most Sixer fans will be pretty happy with the results. They are absolutely swimming in assets right now.

Before Hinkie started, they could have done a more traditional rebuild/reload that might have gotten them past the first round, but very little potential for more than that. Now they have a lot of potential (though it remains to be seen how much can be realized.)

Just getting Embiid has basically swung everything around for them, compared to any other of their draft picks. But that was part Hinkie's strategy- to maximize their chances at getting a AAA player (or multiple AAA players.)
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#93 » by nickhx2 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:39 pm

the whole point of what hinkie was doing was to set the foundation for a structure with as high a ceiling as possible. but honestly at this point i don't really see the hinkie detractors getting over shortsightedness or understanding that.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#94 » by TTP » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:43 pm

eskimo wrote:
TTP wrote:
Master Ze wrote:Deal. As soon as the Sixers clinch/are eliminated from the playoffs we can start it up.


Alright, going to add it to my signature to remember.


You're pretty close to clinching your Avatar bet with HoosierDaddy. Have you figured out what you want him to put up?


Still working on it hah. They need to go 18-6 the rest of the way for me to lose :lol:
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#95 » by Eyeamok » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:08 pm

Milbuck wrote:Trades like this and the MCW for Lakers pick trade are what the Hinkie supporters are talking about. The dude didn't just blow it up and tank with zero regard for anything else like people like to simplify it to. He made some pretty outstanding auxiliary trades along the way and pretty clearly has a great mind for the business side of the sport. It's just a joke that this dude isn't employed right now and there's such a huge chunk of the fan population and media who legitimately believe he sucked as a GM.


There is a no compete clause that Hinkie has, that ends after this season.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#96 » by Optimus_Steel » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:14 pm

seren wrote:Hinkie is great at trades. He just doesn't know basketball much. I would hire him as a cap person.

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His biggest issue is that he is a nerd and has terrible communication and PR skills. A GM needs to be adept at dealing with people. He is best served being the top assistant GM.


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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#97 » by nickhx2 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:17 pm

or he could ostensibly just hire someone who has experience with that stuff to do the talking for him. either way i don't see him being out of a job for too long. being awkward is pretty far down the list of hiring cons.
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#98 » by raptorstime » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:21 pm

hinkie deserves another job as a general manager
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#99 » by HotelVitale » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:36 pm

Master Ze wrote:
The_Hater wrote: And would people please stop exaggerating the time line. Hinkie was implored as GM for 35 months, not 5 years. You can't blame him for the horrible decisions made before he was hired or for the slow direction Colangleo has taken them in his 12 months on the job.
They went 10-72 in 2016, third worst record in NBA history and still they have a losing record for the foreseeable future. There's nothing for me to celebrate about that. I celebrate how fast Danny Ainge turned around the Celtics after the KG trade + Pierce rebuild. As a franchise you can sell tickets with wins or a promising future and I'm just not a fan of the latter when it takes this long.

Two big logical problems with saying 'do what the Celtics did!':
a) the Celtics started their rebuild with great assets, while the Sixers started off with scraps after gutting their cabinet for Bynum; a lot of the Celtics' success in rebuilding came from getting a great return on the big 4 (minus Ray Allen)
b) more importantly the Celtics have had a remarkable and remarkably lucky rebuilding run, and as a result it's not a 'model'; a rebuilding team can't say, 'what we're going to do is make three of the greatest low-risk trades of all time and then sign really good players to below market contracts.' That's what the Celtics did and Ainge deserves credit, but much of that was just luck--Crowder and IT2 are just way better than anyone thought, and a lot of the credit goes to them for improving their games. Ainge also got lucky not pulling off some of the trades he boasted about (trading a boatload of picks for Justise Winslow, trading for Okafor, etc). Of course every rebuilding team would love to repeat that streak of luck but just like you can't repeat the Sonics/Thunder model--draft four all-NBA players in 3 drafts--a franchise can't just say 'we'll just do that and rebuild quickly while staying good.'

Hinkie's model was based on the premise that draft picks and trades are mostly gambles revolving around luck (you do your homework and cross your fingers the players develop), hence you need to give your team multiple chances at hitting big rather than just using hubris to say you'll get as lucky as the Thunder or Celtics have. Most rebuilds that are 'three years or less' end up looking like the current Hornets or the Magic (who have actually been 'rebuilding' longer than the Sixers).
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Re: Sam Hinkie's trades get even getter 

Post#100 » by kukenotas » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:49 pm

No matter what after rebuilds sixers vs boston answer me one question:
What situation you would be more lucky to have sixers vs boston?
Boston one of the hottest teams this year.
possible even no 1 seed in the east( after love injury)
Has extra first round pick and a swap. In 17 and 18.
which one is lottery other possible lottery. Good team with expiring contracts rebuilding after generation change.
Boston still bleeds for bigs and a francize player, too bad 17 draft is guards loaded one.
Team plays great but wont contend for rings. Have cheap expiring contracts- which will eed to extend.
Started rebuild having starts and hof.
Meanwhile sixers are in opposite spot. Being in top 5 worst teams this year has something to smile about.
Having francize player in embiid who has concerns abb his health, opposite of boston who after draft will have logjam with guards- sixers has logjam of bigs- biid noel ok4 holmes saric simmons ilyasova.
Having embiid sixers has possible all star in simmons, lots of questions with that
Sixers has 2 extra firstrounders and a swap. (1 more than bost)
Picks might convey only 2018 and 2019 - both uprotected.
While boston is expecting no 1 ovr this year, sixers hope to grab 3-5, and hope lakers pick will convey this year.
During rebuild have expiring contracts of noel, embiid, corvington.
So as a gm as a fan as a normal person let m know what situation is better to be at? No 2 seed boston? Or top5 worst sixers?

sixers, it was always sixers

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