Jokic is just another example of how incompetent NBA GMs are

[StatLine]

Anyone can criticize and act like a know-it-all when there's hindsight

[fufofly]

Also, on Giannis story,
For every Giannis there's a Bruno Caboclo.

Giannis was playing in "Greek 2nd Division" when he was drafted. How can you determine a player's skill level/potential when he's playing at such a low level? Not the same thing as scouting players like Bender, Furkan Korkmaz etc. who play for great euroleague teams.


@simmons25
Furkan wasn't playing for a "scrub euro team" (Efes, which is a really good but not an elite euro team) but he now plays for a way weaker team and the team's not in the euroleague but gets playing time and shows his potential. His current team has a better front office and they trust him.


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[predators]

International basketball is played in a completely different style than in the US; it's more like hardwood soccer, than star-centric. it's hard to determine who can be a star when the European game doesn't allow for players to average 30ppg.

Also, coming to the US is adapting to a whole new culture and way of life, which affects how some players will grow. And, you can't Scout work ethic. There will always be sleepers who become superstars, based on sheer will to overcome doubters

this is so true. kristaps porzingis was a role player in a mid-level team. that is why i got shocked by his rookie year.

Porzingis was the 2nd leading scorer and 2nd leading rebounder on his team his last year in europe. An 18 year old kid doing that in the best league outside of the NBA is probably a stronger resume than dominating the NCAA. If your young and put up numbers in the ACB or Euroleague you will get drafted in the lottery as long as people think you will come over and don't have trash size.

[pelifan]

You gotta understand these GMs want to keep their job. Could you imagine what would happen to a GM if he drafted a guy he thought was Giannis at #5 and he ended up being Bruno

[Curmudgeon]

LOL, now we have all of the lottery bound teams shutting down their good players for the rest of the year in an unabashed race to the bottom-- so that their GMs can make the same drafting and trading mistakes that they made in years past (which is why they are lottery teams).

[Pharaoh]

Teams have no idea what's going on inside a guy's head or if he's got the drive and will to develop into something special.

That's why dudes bust - it's not just about talent.

Corey Brewer dropped 50! He & a ton of other guys are talented, they're just not willing to go Kobe mode and lock themselves in a gym to become great.

No scout, GM or coach can ever know for sure given the limited samples they have to go on

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[peja_the_legend]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1245539&hilit=giannis#start_here

Check this thread from May 2013..If ReALGM users knew than Giannis was in reality a top 10 pick then the GM's should think the same..But they didn't.They thought the likes of Alex Len and Bennet and Olynyk were safer picks.

[reload141]

People say its a crap shoot, and they have a point, but its not the total crapshoot. I am euro hops fan, and maybe thats just hindsight speaking, but all you needed is basic scouting to realize Hezonja sucks, and that Jokic is at least very intriguing and worth a first round shot. I cant believe scouts projecting players like Hezonja and Bender so high, while at the same time having Jokic marely undrafted.

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Curious with what you think about Ante Zizic then

[Egg Nog]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1245539&hilit=giannis#start_here

Check this thread from May 2013..If ReALGM users knew than Giannis was in reality a top 10 pick then the GM's should think the same..But they didn't.They thought the likes of Alex Len and Bennet and Olynyk were safer picks.

HAHAHA, wow...they probably spelled his name 20 different ways without ever getting it right.

**EDIT...actually, I guess that was resolved on the last page.

[youngthegiant]

Jokic just got a triple double in 22 minutes....wow

[Curmudgeon]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1245539&hilit=giannis#start_here

Check this thread from May 2013..If ReALGM users knew than Giannis was in reality a top 10 pick then the GM's should think the same..But they didn't.They thought the likes of Alex Len and Bennet and Olynyk were safer picks.

Lemmings all.

[Flash Falcon X]

This is a general problem, not an international problem.

Even Americans like Isiah Thomas, Gilbert Arenas, Draymond Green, etc. got slept on in drafts.

Meanwhile, international players get drafted high and still don't produce like Andrea Bargnani and Nikoloz Tskitishvili.


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[UcanUwill]

People say its a crap shoot, and they have a point, but its not the total crapshoot. I am euro hops fan, and maybe thats just hindsight speaking, but all you needed is basic scouting to realize Hezonja sucks, and that Jokic is at least very intriguing and worth a first round shot. I cant believe scouts projecting players like Hezonja and Bender so high, while at the same time having Jokic marely undrafted.

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Curious with what you think about Ante Zizic then

Good question. To be honest, I have seen Darussafaka games, but Zizic never stood out to me, but I never paid too much attention to him. I am not an expert on him (I am more familiar with guys like Hartenstein and Doncic), altho unlike Hezonja, I think he definitely has translatable NBA skills. His touch around the rim is really solid and he is very good offensive rebounder. On offense he looks competent, I dont know much about his defense, that will probably be the main factor of his success in the NBA.

[andyhop]

What I would love to get hold of is the notes that teams had on these draft steals to see what they actually thought they might be getting rather than what they actually got, because everyone gives credit for the Giannis and Jokic picks but if the teams actually drafted them expecting them to be totally different players than they turned into why would they be due any special credit. They just got lucky in that case

[Bolivar]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1245539&hilit=giannis#start_here

Check this thread from May 2013..If ReALGM users knew than Giannis was in reality a top 10 pick then the GM's should think the same..But they didn't.They thought the likes of Alex Len and Bennet and Olynyk were safer picks.

Interesting read. It's nothing extreme though, the general consensus seems to be that he's definitely worth the risk somewhere in the mid- first round. So the #15 pick is quite logical, grats to the Bucks. Looking at the list of 2013 draft, the only guy that makes no sense whatsoever is obviously Bennett. I mean holy mother of God, how can you in this day and age of proper scouting budgets waste a number 1 pick on something like that And win a championship three years later.

[Patsfan1081]

This previous draft all we heard were complaints on teams reaching on Euro/international players.

[PhillySixers22]

Teams have no idea what's going on inside a guy's head or if he's got the drive and will to develop into something special.

That's why dudes bust - it's not just about talent.

Corey Brewer dropped 50! He & a ton of other guys are talented, they're just not willing to go Kobe mode and lock themselves in a gym to become great.

No scout, GM or coach can ever know for sure given the limited samples they have to go on

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This is exactly it. Nobody knew Kawhi would evolve into what he is now because you just don't really know a persons mentality and deepest desire. Guys like Kobe or Leonard or Jordan or LeBron want to be great bad enough that they are willing to make any sacrifice necessary to get there. There are so many highly talented players that bust in every single draft and most of it has to do with their drive, focus, mentality etc and those things can only be known by knowing a person intimately. It's why Pop knew Leonard would be the face of the Spurs franchise while he was putting up less than 15 a game and people thought he was crazy.

[Alfred]

Isn't Nikola Jokic the worst example of how incompetent NBA GMs are? He used to be fat, he's very unathletic and his skillset is best utilized by running the offense through him. That doesn't exactly scream "elite NBA prospect" to me.

The fact that he turned into an elite offensive player is a surprise to everyone, which is why it's so cool.

[UcanUwill]

Also, on Giannis story,
For every Giannis there's a Bruno Caboclo.

Giannis was playing in "Greek 2nd Division" when he was drafted. How can you determine a player's skill level/potential when he's playing at such a low level? Not the same thing as scouting players like Bender, Furkan Korkmaz etc. who play for great euroleague teams.


@simmons25
Furkan wasn't playing for a "scrub euro team" (Efes, which is a really good but not an elite euro team) but he now plays for a way weaker team and the team's not in the euroleague but gets playing time and shows his potential. His current team has a better front office and they trust him.


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Yeah, I am not blaming GMs for passing on Giannis. Giannis was very hard to project, not to mention he is just one of those players who excels much better in NBA game. He played for U18 (i believe) team prior to draft, most NBA scouts were there truly seeing him for the first time, and although he had those great tools, he still had a few games where he went scoreless. NBA level prospects usually put up tons of points against these types of competition, but Giannis is just one of those guys who struggles in FIBA ball.

[UcanUwill]

Isn't Nikola Jokic the worst example of how incompetent NBA GMs are? He used to be fat, he's very unathletic and his skillset is best utilized by running the offense through him. That doesn't exactly scream "elite NBA prospect" to me.

The fact that he turned into an elite offensive player is a surprise to everyone, which is why it's so cool.

He lost a lot of weight before joining Mega, so it was a sign of good workethic. My boy Karnisovas saw something in that guy, or maybe he just got lucky.