Interesting article on Black Players In Utah

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Re: Black Players In Utah 

Post#221 » by OmegaAtrocity » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:35 pm

ItsThatEasy wrote:I wrote an entire dissertation on the black barbershop a few years ago.

It's about more than a haircut, it's a cultural staple. It's where we talk sh*t, it's where we decompress from the world, it's where we network, it's where we laugh and cry all in the same day, it's where we decide which bar we're going to that weekend, growing up as a young black man my barber was one of my biggest mentors, they're father figures to many young men in the community.

Everybody won't understand, hell, every black person might not understand. But it's a big part of many of our lives.

So for guys in this thread to outright tell us "you can get a haircut anywhere", it's dismissive to our experience and our values. You actually took the time to ask because you were unaware, I don't understand why more can't just ask instead of assuming.


I appreciate this explanation a lot, being from western NC (one of the absolute whitest places in the US, playing basketball were some of the only times I even saw black people before college) I honestly know next to nothing about black culture. Barber shop visits are just a way of shooting the **** and making plans, I can understand that for sure.

Keep writing stuff like this, people willing to learn will listen to it.
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#222 » by heatwillbeback » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:38 pm

I am not reading 11 pages, so if I missed it, sorry.

I think it's place but also the Jazz owner why players may not want to play there. This is the same guy who rallied against "urban" songs on local radio.

Some players will collect the pay check and not care. Others will be drafted and not have a choice. And some will like it. But it's not going to be for everyone.
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#223 » by Goldbum » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:48 pm

Honestly I have lived in SLC for almost 8 years now and I hate it. I had a lot of LDS friends back in Washington state who talked it up so I was willing to take that transfer. Since being here I can't think of s place I have lived or worked that I like less. It's an insular and xenophobic community, I-15 traffic is awful, the winters are terrible, the separation of church and state is murky at best, and the air quality rivals LA.
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#224 » by Eyeamok » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:50 pm

The Average NBA career length is 4.8 years. Some of these young guys who do not want to go to Utah are doing themselves a disservice. I understand about SLC not being rich in the culture you are used to, but if you go to a city that is “low” on your culture scale, you basically have nothing to do but work on your craft. With minimal distractions. This could pay off in huge dividends in the length of your NBA career and your ability to make money. Also your level of maturity should grow too. All pluses in the NBA.

Secondly there is the off season. You want to hang out and party go rent a condo in LA or NY in the off season and party it up. That’s your right.

Yes living in Utah you may not be surrounded with people that look like you or like all the same things you like, but if you are an NBA player chances are you are making more money than the average guy. Guess what most people in that income bracket don’t look like you or share your cultural values. It’s part and parcel of moving up in income brackets. Learn to deal with it.

On the flip side Utah needs to do something incredible to get stars to come to their city and play. Not just black players. It’s part and parcel of being in a smaller market and not having a history of winning championships. Because of the new CBA teams that draft a player can offer him more money than ever before. Perhaps a 1 to 2 year extreme tanking philosophy is what Utah needs to do. Draft top talent and lock them up long term.
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#225 » by Eyeamok » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:52 pm

heatwillbeback wrote:I am not reading 11 pages, so if I missed it, sorry.

I think it's place but also the Jazz owner why players may not want to play there. This is the same guy who rallied against "urban" songs on local radio.

Some players will collect the pay check and not care. Others will be drafted and not have a choice. And some will like it. But it's not going to be for everyone.


Actually one of the better threads I've read in a while. Some interesting view points. It's worth the read IMHO.

And you are right it's not just on the player.
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Re: Black Players In Utah 

Post#226 » by ItsThatEasy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:01 pm

OmegaAtrocity wrote:
ItsThatEasy wrote:I wrote an entire dissertation on the black barbershop a few years ago.

It's about more than a haircut, it's a cultural staple. It's where we talk sh*t, it's where we decompress from the world, it's where we network, it's where we laugh and cry all in the same day, it's where we decide which bar we're going to that weekend, growing up as a young black man my barber was one of my biggest mentors, they're father figures to many young men in the community.

Everybody won't understand, hell, every black person might not understand. But it's a big part of many of our lives.

So for guys in this thread to outright tell us "you can get a haircut anywhere", it's dismissive to our experience and our values. You actually took the time to ask because you were unaware, I don't understand why more can't just ask instead of assuming.


I appreciate this explanation a lot, being from western NC (one of the absolute whitest places in the US, playing basketball were some of the only times I even saw black people before college) I honestly know next to nothing about black culture. Barber shop visits are just a way of shooting the **** and making plans, I can understand that for sure.

Keep writing stuff like this, people willing to learn will listen to it.


This thread has been productive due to folks like yourself who just admit that they don't understand something. We all should have no problem listening to others experiences and simply taking them at their word when it comes to those experiences. Once people start trying to tell you how YOU should feel then it becomes dismissive and people get defensive.

Maybe my biggest issue is that people didn't even read the article and assumed it's a bunch of black guys complaining about white people lol it's just guys speaking on the difficulties of adjusting to a different culture. The exact same article is written about international players EVERY single year and nobody bats an eye.
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#227 » by Nate505 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:02 pm

heatwillbeback wrote:I am not reading 11 pages, so if I missed it, sorry.

I think it's place but also the Jazz owner why players may not want to play there. This is the same guy who rallied against "urban" songs on local radio.

You mean Larry Miller, who's been dead for 8 years?
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Re: Black Players In Utah 

Post#228 » by mtron929 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:07 pm

ItsThatEasy wrote:
OmegaAtrocity wrote:
ItsThatEasy wrote:I wrote an entire dissertation on the black barbershop a few years ago.

It's about more than a haircut, it's a cultural staple. It's where we talk sh*t, it's where we decompress from the world, it's where we network, it's where we laugh and cry all in the same day, it's where we decide which bar we're going to that weekend, growing up as a young black man my barber was one of my biggest mentors, they're father figures to many young men in the community.

Everybody won't understand, hell, every black person might not understand. But it's a big part of many of our lives.

So for guys in this thread to outright tell us "you can get a haircut anywhere", it's dismissive to our experience and our values. You actually took the time to ask because you were unaware, I don't understand why more can't just ask instead of assuming.


I appreciate this explanation a lot, being from western NC (one of the absolute whitest places in the US, playing basketball were some of the only times I even saw black people before college) I honestly know next to nothing about black culture. Barber shop visits are just a way of shooting the **** and making plans, I can understand that for sure.

Keep writing stuff like this, people willing to learn will listen to it.


This thread has been productive due to folks like yourself who just admit that they don't understand something. We all should have no problem listening to others experiences and simply taking them at their word when it comes to those experiences. Once people start trying to tell you how YOU should feel then it becomes dismissive and people get defensive.

Maybe my biggest issue is that people didn't even read the article and assumed it's a bunch of black guys complaining about white people lol it's just guys speaking on the difficulties of adjusting to a different culture. The exact same article is written about international players EVERY single year and nobody bats an eye.


Well, this inability to tell people how they should feel has a slippery slope aspect to it. And we are start becoming hypocrits because to a certain extent, pretty much everyone tells others to feel a certain way about something sometime in their lives.
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Re: Black Players In Utah 

Post#229 » by ItsThatEasy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:13 pm

mtron929 wrote:
ItsThatEasy wrote:
OmegaAtrocity wrote:
I appreciate this explanation a lot, being from western NC (one of the absolute whitest places in the US, playing basketball were some of the only times I even saw black people before college) I honestly know next to nothing about black culture. Barber shop visits are just a way of shooting the **** and making plans, I can understand that for sure.

Keep writing stuff like this, people willing to learn will listen to it.


This thread has been productive due to folks like yourself who just admit that they don't understand something. We all should have no problem listening to others experiences and simply taking them at their word when it comes to those experiences. Once people start trying to tell you how YOU should feel then it becomes dismissive and people get defensive.

Maybe my biggest issue is that people didn't even read the article and assumed it's a bunch of black guys complaining about white people lol it's just guys speaking on the difficulties of adjusting to a different culture. The exact same article is written about international players EVERY single year and nobody bats an eye.


Well, this inability to tell people how they should feel has a slippery slope aspect to it. And we are start becoming hypocrits because to a certain extent, pretty much everyone tells others to feel a certain way about something sometime in their lives.


Perhaps you're speaking for yourself, I haven't and never will tell anyone how they should feel about anything.

My experiences are mine and yours are yours, you have every right to feel whatever you feel about those experiences.

We can both walk into the same room at the same time and feel completely different ways about that room.
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#230 » by ItsThatEasy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:19 pm

I have no idea what it's like to walk into an airport wearing a hijab.

It would be ridiculously entitled, dismissive, almost inhuman of me to tell that person who has gone through that how they should feel.

Whatever that person tells me they feel during that scenario I'm going to believe, simple as that.
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Re: RE: Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#231 » by Nate505 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:36 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Nate505 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:You black? If not you probably don't get it but being black in America means you have tons in common with each other no matter what background you personally have. That's just the way the country is. In my personal experience I'll flat out say 90% of white people I've met are racist. Not that they notice it or are consciously racist but that's just life growing up in the US - it's conditioning.

So what's your definition of racist, and what separates the 10% of whites who are not?

My definition of racist goes as far as you treating someone differently or acting differently around people of different races. What separates the other 10% is that they act comfortable, don't really change up when they're around different people, and if they did and you said something about it they actually listen and don't respond with hostility like the poster right after you. That's not something easy to achieve when you're raised in the US and constantly taught to be hostile towards people of color in all situations.

Hmmm...I don't believe most people are taught to be hostile towards people of color in all situations. Especially some absurd percentage like 90%. I also believe most people act different around people they don't know, people tend to be around people who are similar to them (be it based on race or class or ethnicity or religion or whatever). I wouldn't call that racism though. To me racism is the belief that one race is superior to another or that race inherently imparts negative characteristics on a person.
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#232 » by shoefly1 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:49 pm

EAS Law wrote:
shoefly1 wrote:
EAS Law wrote:So you are condemning people for dismissing someone's opinion while also praising the idea that a player believes an entire group of people have no right to an opinion based on the color of their skin...

2017 I guess


I recently listened to a radio show where a woman was talking about her discomfort and dislike of being catcalled on the street. She spoke to a man who had catcalled her for hours, trying to communicate her experience to the man. The man she talked to was a nice guy, sweet and charming, but no matter how much she tried, he kept telling her that her experience was wrong, that she should be flattered that he was catcalling her on the street. He told her that it was all in good fun, so she and the vast majority of women who feel the way she does just need to change their way of thinking.

I don't think it's, "2017" to allow people to share their own experience and preferences without telling them they are wrong.. I think it's decency.

Agreed on catcalling.

Can we not distinguish between someone being personally harassed/their right to privacy and security in their person and this new wave idea that entire groups of people are not allowed to even think about/opine/discuss issues based on the color of their skin or culture?


I'm trying to state a distinction but I feel like it's not getting across.

You respect and appreciate that a woman has a right to feel a certain way when she gets catcalled.

Would you respect the way a disabled person felt if they didn't have equal access? Would you respect how a gay person felt if they lived in a certain city, a Jewish person in another city?

What I'm trying to say is, you can have an opinion and say that you like a certain city and find it comfortable there. It just seems weird to me that when multiple people are saying that from their experience they prefer one city to another you should be able to judge them and tell them that they're wrong.

Isn't that distinction clear? They are telling you their experience, you don't have to change your behavior or agree with them, but you should give them the respect to acknowledge their experience without you telling them that they are wrong.
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Re: RE: Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#233 » by E-Balla » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:00 pm

Nate505 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:
Nate505 wrote:So what's your definition of racist, and what separates the 10% of whites who are not?

My definition of racist goes as far as you treating someone differently or acting differently around people of different races. What separates the other 10% is that they act comfortable, don't really change up when they're around different people, and if they did and you said something about it they actually listen and don't respond with hostility like the poster right after you. That's not something easy to achieve when you're raised in the US and constantly taught to be hostile towards people of color in all situations.

Hmmm...I don't believe most people are taught to be hostile towards people of color in all situations. Especially some absurd percentage like 90%. I also believe most people act different around people they don't know, people tend to be around people who are similar to them (be it based on race or class or ethnicity or religion or whatever). I wouldn't call that racism though. To me racism is the belief that one race is superior to another or that race inherently imparts negative characteristics on a person.

No everyone is taught that. 100%. And this isn't what I think its what I know and what's obvious. 90% of the time it works. And when I said different I should've specified I meant in a negative or ignorant manner.
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#234 » by heatwillbeback » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:46 pm

Nate505 wrote:
heatwillbeback wrote:I am not reading 11 pages, so if I missed it, sorry.

I think it's place but also the Jazz owner why players may not want to play there. This is the same guy who rallied against "urban" songs on local radio.

You mean Larry Miller, who's been dead for 8 years?


Yes, but the team is still controlled by his wife/family. Some people consider remarks he made to be racist and homophobic, so I think the same is relevant to this discussion.

I could of done more research for my post, but it was off memory. Also important to note that it was not radio, but tv (UPN) where he wanted less "urban" programming.
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Re: Black Players In Utah 

Post#235 » by LLJ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:50 pm

Winglish wrote:
Basically the married and attached guys LOVE it here and the single guys looking to party often have to look a little harder in Utah to find those opportunities than in other states.


So there is an underground sex movement in Utah? :)
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#236 » by HeartBreakKid » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:15 pm

Tracymcgoaty wrote:I dont live in the states but whats wrong with Utah? Boring? I could see if someone lived in New york or LA for most of their life making a change to go to Utah would be rough or am i just lost?


Pretty much, it's very rural compared to where most basketball players come from. It's also worth noting, that African-Americans also are afraid of racial hostilities in the rural parts of the US.

With that being said, Utah is a unique part of the country, and not that many people know about the culture in Utah outside of Utah.
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Re: Black Players In Utah 

Post#237 » by Black Jack » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:13 pm

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Cyrusman122000 wrote:I've been to Utah and honestly other than there very strict alcohol rules and weed laws (I smoke) I'd like to live there. It has all the things any big city has just not as much. What do you need 1000 nightclubs and different restaurants for? As long as it has the basics your good restaurants, some good bars, id be good. I wouldn't need to live in a zoo like how New York and LA are. Utah is very clean, safe, beautiful in nature and has a true 4 seasons.
Maybe not salt lake but I'd way rather live in a place like Portland or Denver over LA.
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#238 » by KDBG » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:41 pm

This is the best representation of Utah folks. Diversity.

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Re: RE: Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#239 » by RSCD3_ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:54 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Nate505 wrote:
E-Balla wrote:My definition of racist goes as far as you treating someone differently or acting differently around people of different races. What separates the other 10% is that they act comfortable, don't really change up when they're around different people, and if they did and you said something about it they actually listen and don't respond with hostility like the poster right after you. That's not something easy to achieve when you're raised in the US and constantly taught to be hostile towards people of color in all situations.

Hmmm...I don't believe most people are taught to be hostile towards people of color in all situations. Especially some absurd percentage like 90%. I also believe most people act different around people they don't know, people tend to be around people who are similar to them (be it based on race or class or ethnicity or religion or whatever). I wouldn't call that racism though. To me racism is the belief that one race is superior to another or that race inherently imparts negative characteristics on a person.

No everyone is taught that. 100%. And this isn't what I think its what I know and what's obvious. 90% of the time it works. And when I said different I should've specified I meant in a negative or ignorant manner.


Yeah when I read this combined with the rest of your comments and general race related discussions in other areas of the forum I think you meant its beneath the surface teaching and people dont even realize it the implications and representations of minorities given are effecting people.

There's just a huge amount of push-back because odd as is it to say racism has been caricatured into only the KKK and Nazi's where subtle behaviors in white people reacting to interactions with black people with extra apprehensiveness and people in a parking lot late at night might see a young guy in front of him and, the guy turns around is he's black and the guy walking to his car grabs his keys extra firm or speeds up.

The stuff is under the surface level and is much less of a conservative / liberal issue than certain outlets would characterize it as, many liberals are fine championing themselves as civil right supporters but take many actions unknowing that prove their implicit biases. An instance of " subconscious racism or unknowingly offending someone" doesn't necessarily mean you are a piece of garbage it just means the conditioning hasnt been broken in ways that you can recognize the inequalities related to experiences with POC or minorities of any kind. The thing most frustrating in white black relations

Spoiler:
which I am supposing, as I am white but had many black close black friends high school and in general have been more cognizant of it since reading reviews and being on a pro minority civil rights facebook page ( yeah I know the whole silly " I have black friends so your argument is invalid" reason this argument is brought up usually but I am merely providing context to my statement here as I am white)so I definitely believe Im not just pulling this from my ass


is the whole defensiveness of an amount of white Americans that treat some criticism of their ideas of race or subtle prejudices as a full on accusation that they are basically a scumbag. It's almost as if certain people cannot entertain the idea that they arent already treating everyone fairly if they work on a surface level. The whole " I dont see color" and any derivative of that is deflecting away from any honest discussion on racism and an attempt to actually educate someone about why such a mindset can have many effects and how all these little biases can add up and have a tangible effect on the experience of being black in america.

I haven't really said any outright racist things because like most americans that have even a pedestrian understanding of the civil rights era that " I believe all men were created equal" just being a dick to someone because they are black will get you a bunch of dirty looks. however if someone is dressed urban and is behaving in non typical american cultural way and someone disguises there diatribe because of political correctness ( as eballa already stated the welfare queen, thug, etc. ) then most people wont be that worried and some people may even applaud it as some beneficial colonial type encouragement BS. But when Ive accidentally said some stupid "unthinking before i talk" thing to a black person that is borne of more thoughtlessness than hate or anything and someone calls me out and I apologize or I realize 10 seconds later most of the time they dont get pissed, just give me a " its cool bruh" or "you good" because the act of understanding what you did was wrong and just apologizing without any moral bargaining or trying to sidestep yourself as the person at fault is probably a lot more rare than white people in general end to think.

The main point is that being racist without thinking about it doesnt make you necessarily a bad person but being the kind of person that gets all defensive, throws out BS false equivalency, " respectability " arguments, deflects, and is generally an a-hole or belittling about it makes you a real jerk to those people and if you're quick to respond to such behavior with malice or belittling someone and it depends on race as to how you respond then you basically are a racist.

Was the whole dismissive
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Re: Interesting article on Black Players In Utah 

Post#240 » by KDBG » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:09 pm

IT and Gerald Green are in this. Utah at it's finest. Seriously though, this is true diversity. ALL colors, together. We don't give a ****.


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