WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 3-2

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Series Prediction

Clippers in 4
5
1%
Clippers in 5
29
8%
Clippers in 6
71
20%
Clippers in 7
60
17%
Jazz in 4
10
3%
Jazz in 5
11
3%
Jazz in 6
99
28%
Jazz in 7
74
21%
 
Total votes: 359

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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#921 » by mudsak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:11 pm

SkyHook wrote:
Froob wrote:Jazz gotta let Hayward go to give Ingles a bigger role.


Fortunately it doesn't look like the Celtics will be an attractive option for him with the way they're getting worked by the Bulls in the first round. :D :nod: :lol:


Haha!!!... good point!
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#922 » by mudsak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:17 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:Lol 8 free throw attempts for Clippers. Franchise low despite 60 points in paint. Something doesn't add up.


Haha... Really?... did you watch the game?... Only 8 free throws because the Jazz gave the Clips an invitation to a game full of comfortable uncontested layups.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#923 » by MartinToVaught » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:23 pm

og15 wrote:The Clippers can get more production by playing Jamal a lot less, unless he's hot. If he's off, he sits. A player shooting 29% FG / 00% 3PT and who does nothing else isn't helping you win

I think it's time to accept that Jamal is never going to be "on" against a playoff defense. He should never get any playoff minutes unless injuries or fouls force Doc's hand. And I think "off" is the wrong word. "Off" implies that Jamal is just missing shots he could reasonably be expected to make. In reality, Jamal's shooting percentages are the predictable result of chucking up inefficient, low-percentage shots against playoff defenses.

This exemplifies what I mean with your analysis though:
MartinToVaught wrote:He's developed some bad habits because he's never really been coached at this level. The way Blake plays in the 4th is giving me Kaman flashbacks. Down the stretch, he either tries to put the ball on the floor and ends up turning it over, or he settles for too many jump shots. The latter is definitely Doc's influence at play;

Honestly, this is more of a Doc problem than a Blake problem. Blake is a hard worker and a great player who's practically begging to be coached. Every improvement he's made has been in spite of Dunleavy, VDN and Doc.

So, Blake has struggles down the stretch, and at first you say a little bit about Blake turning it over, shooting jumpers, but then the final conclusion is that it's not primarily or more about his own decision making or tentativeness, etc, but it is actually more about the coach. Now, you are setting a precedent on how to analyze a players decision making and performance and where we should give them leeway. So let's use the exact same standard for his teammate Paul. Chris Paul has been coached by Byron Scott, VDN and Doc. Who is better, Byron Scott or Mike Dunleavy? Yea, so why have you never given us this breakdown and explanation of any struggles Paul has had and said it is "more" a Doc problem? Why were none of New Orleans' issues more of a Byron Scott problem? Is that answer that "well Paul wanted Doc and forced the team to bring him", so it's his own fault! Of course the majority thought it was a good move including Blake himself and many others, but why do we have different standards, because Paul makes $1-2 million more? I'm really curious...

Understand this though, I actually don't care for this line of argument. I don't think Paul should be "excused" because of his coaching in terms of his own skills and decision making as it relates to attacking the defense, and I disagree with blaming a coach for limitations a players game. I'm just wondering it you see that you might be so ingrained in your biases, positive or negative that you consistently contradict yourself and use clear double standards but are seemingly unaware of it. Do you not realize it or are you just content with the double standards and contradictions?

There is no double standard. Blake's problem down the stretch is mechanical. He's not quick enough with his moves and tries to put the ball on the floor with consistently poor results. This is where a coach needs to step in, show him the tape and explain to him what he's doing wrong. It doesn't seem like any coaching staff has done that yet.

In contrast, Chris' passiveness is a mental flaw as opposed to mechanical. We know Chris can consciously flip the switch and choose to be aggressive, because he just did it last night. It's not something a coach can fix, because it's ultimately up to Paul to be self-confident enough to look for his own shot from the beginning. Doc has asked him to be more aggressive, his teammates have asked him to be more aggressive, he's acknowledged he needs to be more aggressive, yet it still isn't happening enough.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#924 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:32 pm

mudsak wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:Lol 8 free throw attempts for Clippers. Franchise low despite 60 points in paint. Something doesn't add up.


Haha... Really?... did you watch the game?... Only 8 free throws because the Jazz gave the Clips an invitation to a game full of comfortable uncontested layups.


Yup. An uncontested 24 layups and dunks sounds legit. NBA record!!
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Re: RE: Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#925 » by og15 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:50 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
og15 wrote:The Clippers can get more production by playing Jamal a lot less, unless he's hot. If he's off, he sits. A player shooting 29% FG / 00% 3PT and who does nothing else isn't helping you win

I think it's time to accept that Jamal is never going to be "on" against a playoff defense. He should never get any playoff minutes unless injuries or fouls force Doc's hand. And I think "off" is the wrong word. "Off" implies that Jamal is just missing shots he could reasonably be expected to make. In reality, Jamal's shooting percentages are the predictable result of chucking up inefficient, low-percentage shots against playoff defenses.

I like Jamal the man, but I've wanted him moved since 13-14 summer, so I have no partiality towards him. He can be useful as a heat check, but a player like him consistently being on the floor for half the game or more is not conducive to playoff success, that's the reality.

Austin actually would be helpful right now if he was to take Jamal's minutes, but Doc would probably just pay both, soo...


This exemplifies what I mean with your analysis though:
MartinToVaught wrote:He's developed some bad habits because he's never really been coached at this level. The way Blake plays in the 4th is giving me Kaman flashbacks. Down the stretch, he either tries to put the ball on the floor and ends up turning it over, or he settles for too many jump shots. The latter is definitely Doc's influence at play;

Honestly, this is more of a Doc problem than a Blake problem. Blake is a hard worker and a great player who's practically begging to be coached. Every improvement he's made has been in spite of Dunleavy, VDN and Doc.

So, Blake has struggles down the stretch, and at first you say a little bit about Blake turning it over, shooting jumpers, but then the final conclusion is that it's not primarily or more about his own decision making or tentativeness, etc, but it is actually more about the coach. Now, you are setting a precedent on how to analyze a players decision making and performance and where we should give them leeway. So let's use the exact same standard for his teammate Paul. Chris Paul has been coached by Byron Scott, VDN and Doc. Who is better, Byron Scott or Mike Dunleavy? Yea, so why have you never given us this breakdown and explanation of any struggles Paul has had and said it is "more" a Doc problem? Why were none of New Orleans' issues more of a Byron Scott problem? Is that answer that "well Paul wanted Doc and forced the team to bring him", so it's his own fault! Of course the majority thought it was a good move including Blake himself and many others, but why do we have different standards, because Paul makes $1-2 million more? I'm really curious...

Understand this though, I actually don't care for this line of argument. I don't think Paul should be "excused" because of his coaching in terms of his own skills and decision making as it relates to attacking the defense, and I disagree with blaming a coach for limitations a players game. I'm just wondering it you see that you might be so ingrained in your biases, positive or negative that you consistently contradict yourself and use clear double standards but are seemingly unaware of it. Do you not realize it or are you just content with the double standards and contradictions?

There is no double standard. Blake's problem down the stretch is mechanical. He's not quick enough with his moves and tries to put the ball on the floor with consistently poor results. This is where a coach needs to step in, show him the tape and explain to him what he's doing wrong. It doesn't seem like any coaching staff has done that yet.

In contrast, Chris' passiveness is a mental flaw as opposed to mechanical. We know Chris can consciously flip the switch and choose to be aggressive, because he just did it last night. It's not something a coach can fix, because it's ultimately up to Paul to be self-confident enough to look for his own shot from the beginning. Doc has asked him to be more aggressive, his teammates have asked him to be more aggressive, he's acknowledged he needs to be more aggressive, yet it still isn't happening enough.

Do you really think Blake and the whole coaching staff are all oblivious to his struggles and that no one has shown him that? Even if the coaching staff didn't show him that, which they likely have, and they shouldn't have to for him to be aware, players are quite self aware. If Blake can't figure that out himself, that's a problem, but I don't think Blake is dumb and he certainly is quite aware of his current limitations. You speak of the guy like he's a child or a rookie, he's an 8 year vet in the league, he knows basketball, he can analyze film himself.

Blake does not and has never had great isolation skills. He's a good ball handler, but he doesn't have isolation handles, sometimes people don't understand the difference, but there is a difference. He's also not good at shooting off the dribble, and he doesn't use any consistent pull up game or consistent set up to create good separation. Those skills are what can allow a player to be a consistent threat down the stretch from a face up position or attacking off the dribble.

With his back to the basket, he's unconventional, but I've always argued that he is effective. The problem there is that ideally he needs to get low post position, and he's not huge and can't always get good enough position where he can make quick moves. Mid-post is fine if he has the touch and length of Dirk, but for him it can be problematic when the defense starts clamping down.

If he's further out in a post-up, he has to start backing down, and then he's now turnover prone, he can't see the floor or see help defenders well. In the closer mid-range with his back to the basket, he doesn't have the length or touch to be utilizing turnaround jumpshots or short fade aways. Then you have to account that posting up uses up time.

A lot of the stuff he's been doing all game still works late in games. Pick and pop if you catch and are open, fire, don't hold and start to think too much. I know Blake likes to be a passer and ball mover, and it is not necessarily a bad thing, but you can't neglect scoring angles or space when you are the teams leader in USG and FGA. He gets tentative about shooting the same shots he's been taking all game and his confidence in his jumpshot is not the same. So we have a Blake who at times thinks he must get to the basket, he forces against traffic or at poor angles, and that's why he has more games than you would expect where he's struggling, or he just keeps moving the ball and setting screens / doing dribble handoffs instead or looking at the rim, and people say "where's Blake in the offense".

He has to trust the same shots and opportunities that he's taken advantage of all game.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | TIED 1-1 

Post#926 » by mudsak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:25 pm

This is a solid series. This game was pretty interesting (frustrating for me to watch early on, but still a good game overall). The Clips came out with way more fire, and crushed the Jazz in the first quarter. The game was absolutely won in the first quarter. They also killed the Jazz in the paint. It was a fairly dominant performance by the Clips. Yet, somehow the Jazz were never completely out of it. The Jazz kept pressure on them through the entire game, and the Clips managed to answer every time they needed to in order to finish with a win.

The Clippers looked like the better defensive team in this game. The Jazz defense looked just sad. They couldn't get a stop to save their lives. The only stops they really got were by the Clippers own mistakes. But also... credit due to CP3, Blake, and Jordan for making some tough shots, and playing with such intensity.

I'm a little disappointed the Jazz didn't come out fighting harder right out of the 1st quarter, but I'm still happy with how they never give up and constantly keep fighting. They don't seem to panic at all, which is really awesome to watch. If they had matched the intensity right out of the gate I think they probably win that game. The Jazz were only a couple missed shots away from taking this game back to the buzzer. I feel like the Clips look a little bit discouraged by how the Jazz just never seem to be completely out of it...even if they start out down by double digits.

Stoked to see more of this series. Super competitive games. I think the Jazz are going to continue to struggle to control the paint until (IF) Rudy comes back. Jordan, and Blake... led by CP3 is just too much for an out of shape Favors, and a clearly out-matched Withey. If the Jazz want to win they're going to have to play with fire from opening tip until the buzzer and just keep sticking to their game.

Such a shame we don't get to see the Jazz play with their best player.
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Re: RE: Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#927 » by MartinToVaught » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:28 pm

og15 wrote:I like Jamal the man, but I've wanted him moved since 13-14 summer, so I have no partiality towards him. He can be useful as a heat check, but a player like him consistently being on the floor for half the game or more is not conducive to playoff success, that's the reality.

Austin actually would be helpful right now if he was to take Jamal's minutes, but Doc would probably just pay both, soo...

Jamal is a career sub-40% shooter in the playoffs and he's 37 years old now. He's not even going to give us a "heat check" in the playoffs. He shouldn't be playing at all unless we literally have no other choice. I'd rather give those minutes to Alan Anderson than Jamal. He couldn't possibly do worse.

Do you really think Blake and the whole coaching staff are all oblivious to his struggles and that no one has shown him that? Even if the coaching staff didn't show him that, which they likely have, and they shouldn't have to for him to be aware, players are quite self aware. If Blake can't figure that out himself, that's a problem, but I don't think Blake is dumb and he certainly is quite aware of his current limitations. You speak of the guy like he's a child or a rookie, he's an 8 year vet in the league, he knows basketball, he can analyze film himself.

Blake does not and has never had great isolation skills. He's a good ball handler, but he doesn't have isolation handles, sometimes people don't understand the difference, but there is a difference. He's also not good at shooting off the dribble, and he doesn't use any consistent pull up game or consistent set up to create good separation. Those skills are what can allow a player to be a consistent threat down the stretch from a face up position or attacking off the dribble.

With his back to the basket, he's unconventional, but I've always argued that he is effective. The problem there is that ideally he needs to get low post position, and he's not huge and can't always get good enough position where he can make quick moves. Mid-post is fine if he has the touch and length of Dirk, but for him it can be problematic when the defense starts clamping down.

If he's further out in a post-up, he has to start backing down, and then he's now turnover prone, he can't see the floor or see help defenders well. In the closer mid-range with his back to the basket, he doesn't have the length or touch to be utilizing turnaround jumpshots or short fade aways. Then you have to account that posting up uses up time.

A lot of the stuff he's been doing all game still works late in games. Pick and pop if you catch and are open, fire, don't hold and start to think too much. I know Blake likes to be a passer and ball mover, and it is not necessarily a bad thing, but you can't neglect scoring angles or space when you are the teams leader in USG and FGA. He gets tentative about shooting the same shots he's been taking all game and his confidence in his jumpshot is not the same. So we have a Blake who at times thinks he must get to the basket, he forces against traffic or at poor angles, and that's why he has more games than you would expect where he's struggling, or he just keeps moving the ball and setting screens / doing dribble handoffs instead or looking at the rim, and people say "where's Blake in the offense".

He has to trust the same shots and opportunities that he's taken advantage of all game.

I agree with your analysis of Blake's game. It's thorough and well-explained.

What I take exception to is the implication that Blake is somehow "dumb" or a "child" if he needs to be coached. Blake is a smart guy and a hard worker. His game has improved by leaps and bounds. But there's a reason why NBA teams hire coaching staffs. Nobody's perfect and even superstars can benefit from continued instruction.

I do believe that Doc, VDN and Dunleavy have been oblivious to Blake's struggles, actually. Those guys have all been oblivious to basically all other issues with the team during their stints as our coach. Why should we believe that this one is any exception?
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#928 » by mudsak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:47 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
mudsak wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:Lol 8 free throw attempts for Clippers. Franchise low despite 60 points in paint. Something doesn't add up.


Haha... Really?... did you watch the game?... Only 8 free throws because the Jazz gave the Clips an invitation to a game full of comfortable uncontested layups.


Yup. An uncontested 24 layups and dunks sounds legit. NBA record!!


Via @ESPNStatsInfo ...
Paint Offense - Game 2 - Jazz vs Clippers

Jazz -
Points 38
FG - 19/31
Dunks - 1

Clips -
Points 60
FG 30/44
Dunks - 10

Clippers paint production in Game 2…

- The Clippers outscored the Jazz 18-0 in the paint in the 1st quarter, and ultimately scored the first 20 paint points of the game.

- They shot 79% in the restricted area, shooting 27-of-34. The Jazz season average only allowed opponents to shoot 57% in the restricted area (3rd best in NBA).

- The 27 makes in the restricted area matched a season-high for the Clippers

- 15 of those 27 makes were UNCONTESTED...more than HALF. By comparison, the Jazz had 2 uncontested FG in the restricted area.

- 10 of those makes were dunks, tied for 3rd most by the Clips this season.

- DeAndre Jordan had 7 of those dunks. He made 9 FG for the entire game.

- Blake Griffin made 10 of his 11 FG on the game in the restricted area, including 3 dunks.

- Even 39-year-old Paul Pierce made 2 FG in the restricted area. He only had 4 such makes in 25 regular season games.

Jazz defense was porous to say the least. Minus Gobert, this team has a red carpet set up in front of the basket.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#929 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:14 pm

mudsak wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
mudsak wrote:
Haha... Really?... did you watch the game?... Only 8 free throws because the Jazz gave the Clips an invitation to a game full of comfortable uncontested layups.


Yup. An uncontested 24 layups and dunks sounds legit. NBA record!!


Via @ESPNStatsInfo ...
Paint Offense - Game 2 - Jazz vs Clippers

Jazz -
Points 38
FG - 19/31
Dunks - 1

Clips -
Points 60
FG 30/44
Dunks - 10

Clippers paint production in Game 2…

- The Clippers outscored the Jazz 18-0 in the paint in the 1st quarter, and ultimately scored the first 20 paint points of the game.

- They shot 79% in the restricted area, shooting 27-of-34. The Jazz season average only allowed opponents to shoot 57% in the restricted area (3rd best in NBA).

- The 27 makes in the restricted area matched a season-high for the Clippers

- 15 of those 27 makes were UNCONTESTED...more than HALF. By comparison, the Jazz had 2 uncontested FG in the restricted area.

- 10 of those makes were dunks, tied for 3rd most by the Clips this season.

- DeAndre Jordan had 7 of those dunks. He made 9 FG for the entire game.

- Blake Griffin made 10 of his 11 FG on the game in the restricted area, including 3 dunks.

- Even 39-year-old Paul Pierce made 2 FG in the restricted area. He only had 4 such makes in 25 regular season games.

Jazz defense was porous to say the least. Minus Gobert, this team has a red carpet set up in front of the basket.


Nobody asked whether or not the Clippers dominated the paint. With a duo like Griffin/DJ they should. Point was you said they were all wide open, a blatant lie.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | TIED 1-1 

Post#930 » by Clyde Frazier » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:26 pm

Read on Twitter


Gotta give credit where credit is due. Impressive.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | TIED 1-1 

Post#931 » by nickhx2 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:35 pm

clips legit would be in pretty bad shape without luc. he's been phenomenal on defense all season and he's worked really hard at making impact on offense. he's getting closer to giving what matt barnes gives on that side while doing all kinds of work on the other.

mbah a moute is not a dude to trifle with. it's just too bad doc rivers insists on playing crawford over him at critical junctures.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | TIED 1-1 

Post#932 » by TheNewEra » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:38 pm

Blake has taken a huge dip in his face up game. Think him being told to go out to the three point line before he mastered his face up attack game was a big mistake.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#933 » by mudsak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:43 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
mudsak wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Yup. An uncontested 24 layups and dunks sounds legit. NBA record!!


- 15 of those 27 makes were UNCONTESTED...more than HALF. By comparison, the Jazz had 2 uncontested FG in the restricted area.



Nobody asked whether or not the Clippers dominated the paint. With a duo like Griffin/DJ they should. Point was you said they were all wide open, a blatant lie.


Nobody asked me anything. You made a post on an open forum. I read your post that you felt it was unfair the lack of free throws the Clippers took on such a high amount of shots in the paint. I had coincidently read a post by ESPN breaking down statistics that could easily outline exactly why there weren't a lot of fouls called on all those points in the restricted area. Thought I would share it, because that's why we're all here...to share relevant information. Relax man... no reason to start calling people lairs.

When I make statements like "they had a red carpet in the paint to the basket" that doesn't literally mean that EVERY SINGLE point in the paint was uncontested. That would obviously be a ridiculous thing to say. I was simply making a point that there was an incredible amount of uncontested points in the paint in that game... as you can see ESPN stated that more than half of their 27 shots made in the paint were, in fact...uncontested shots.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | TIED 1-1 

Post#934 » by mudsak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:48 pm

Clyde Frazier wrote:
Read on Twitter


Gotta give credit where credit is due. Impressive.


WOW!... I'd like to see some comparisons of other big name players vs LMaM... What are Durant's, Kawhi's, Lebron's season averages vs their averages agains LMaM. I'm super impressed watching this guy. He's a free agent at season's end if I'm not mistaken, no?...player option? Guy is rock solid on defense.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | TIED 1-1 

Post#935 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:19 pm

I'm not intending to be uptight man, just felt like you were being unreasonable and making me sound nuts for suggesting that they may not of gotten enough FT. It was a legit surprise for me to have 60 points in paint and only 8 FT, while Jazz got a lot more.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#936 » by SkyHook » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:52 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
mudsak wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Yup. An uncontested 24 layups and dunks sounds legit. NBA record!!


Via @ESPNStatsInfo ...
Paint Offense - Game 2 - Jazz vs Clippers

Jazz -
Points 38
FG - 19/31
Dunks - 1

Clips -
Points 60
FG 30/44
Dunks - 10

Clippers paint production in Game 2…

- The Clippers outscored the Jazz 18-0 in the paint in the 1st quarter, and ultimately scored the first 20 paint points of the game.

- They shot 79% in the restricted area, shooting 27-of-34. The Jazz season average only allowed opponents to shoot 57% in the restricted area (3rd best in NBA).

- The 27 makes in the restricted area matched a season-high for the Clippers

- 15 of those 27 makes were UNCONTESTED...more than HALF. By comparison, the Jazz had 2 uncontested FG in the restricted area.

- 10 of those makes were dunks, tied for 3rd most by the Clips this season.

- DeAndre Jordan had 7 of those dunks. He made 9 FG for the entire game.

- Blake Griffin made 10 of his 11 FG on the game in the restricted area, including 3 dunks.

- Even 39-year-old Paul Pierce made 2 FG in the restricted area. He only had 4 such makes in 25 regular season games.

Jazz defense was porous to say the least. Minus Gobert, this team has a red carpet set up in front of the basket.


Nobody asked whether or not the Clippers dominated the paint. With a duo like Griffin/DJ they should. Point was you said they were all wide open, a blatant lie.


I don't see where he said that they were ALL wide open. Certainly nothing remotely worthy of calling him a liar. Maybe you should try decaf. Or reading comprehension. :wink:
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 1-0 

Post#937 » by og15 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:39 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
og15 wrote:I like Jamal the man, but I've wanted him moved since 13-14 summer, so I have no partiality towards him. He can be useful as a heat check, but a player like him consistently being on the floor for half the game or more is not conducive to playoff success, that's the reality.

Austin actually would be helpful right now if he was to take Jamal's minutes, but Doc would probably just pay both, soo...

Jamal is a career sub-40% shooter in the playoffs and he's 37 years old now. He's not even going to give us a "heat check" in the playoffs. He shouldn't be playing at all unless we literally have no other choice. I'd rather give those minutes to Alan Anderson than Jamal. He couldn't possibly do worse.

Do you really think Blake and the whole coaching staff are all oblivious to his struggles and that no one has shown him that? Even if the coaching staff didn't show him that, which they likely have, and they shouldn't have to for him to be aware, players are quite self aware. If Blake can't figure that out himself, that's a problem, but I don't think Blake is dumb and he certainly is quite aware of his current limitations. You speak of the guy like he's a child or a rookie, he's an 8 year vet in the league, he knows basketball, he can analyze film himself.

Blake does not and has never had great isolation skills. He's a good ball handler, but he doesn't have isolation handles, sometimes people don't understand the difference, but there is a difference. He's also not good at shooting off the dribble, and he doesn't use any consistent pull up game or consistent set up to create good separation. Those skills are what can allow a player to be a consistent threat down the stretch from a face up position or attacking off the dribble.

With his back to the basket, he's unconventional, but I've always argued that he is effective. The problem there is that ideally he needs to get low post position, and he's not huge and can't always get good enough position where he can make quick moves. Mid-post is fine if he has the touch and length of Dirk, but for him it can be problematic when the defense starts clamping down.

If he's further out in a post-up, he has to start backing down, and then he's now turnover prone, he can't see the floor or see help defenders well. In the closer mid-range with his back to the basket, he doesn't have the length or touch to be utilizing turnaround jumpshots or short fade aways. Then you have to account that posting up uses up time.

A lot of the stuff he's been doing all game still works late in games. Pick and pop if you catch and are open, fire, don't hold and start to think too much. I know Blake likes to be a passer and ball mover, and it is not necessarily a bad thing, but you can't neglect scoring angles or space when you are the teams leader in USG and FGA. He gets tentative about shooting the same shots he's been taking all game and his confidence in his jumpshot is not the same. So we have a Blake who at times thinks he must get to the basket, he forces against traffic or at poor angles, and that's why he has more games than you would expect where he's struggling, or he just keeps moving the ball and setting screens / doing dribble handoffs instead or looking at the rim, and people say "where's Blake in the offense".

He has to trust the same shots and opportunities that he's taken advantage of all game.

I agree with your analysis of Blake's game. It's thorough and well-explained.

What I take exception to is the implication that Blake is somehow "dumb" or a "child" if he needs to be coached. Blake is a smart guy and a hard worker. His game has improved by leaps and bounds. But there's a reason why NBA teams hire coaching staffs. Nobody's perfect and even superstars can benefit from continued instruction.

I do believe that Doc, VDN and Dunleavy have been oblivious to Blake's struggles, actually. Those guys have all been oblivious to basically all other issues with the team during their stints as our coach. Why should we believe that this one is any exception?

I don't think needing to be coached is bad at all. What I mean is that if Blake needs a coach to point out those specific things to him on film and tell him how to solve turn, which the average fan is capable of noticing, that's an issue for a pretty smart player like him. I don't think Blake is not observant and that he doesn't realize this, he does, the thing is that fixing it isn't as easy as it seems.

Two things are required, one is more confidence, which everyone can tell you to be more confident, but in the end it is up to you to embrace that and believe you are making everything you throw up. The second would be for him to really advance his isolation scoring abilities where he's able to create a plethora of different "solid shots" for himself. That tends to also increase confidence. That's actually not as easy as it seems though, and 8 seasons in and at 27 years old it isn't that likely that he develops that aspect, but not impossible.

The question though is how does he fix it? Blake is a good, but not extremely "versatile" scorer in the sense of having multiple moves and counters, etc. He also doesn't truly have a "go to" move. Paul for example has his step back jumpers and he's very adept at getting off some odd angle floaters off the drive late in games. Blake does a lot of his scoring as a finisher either pick and roll or pick and pop, in transition, and then self created he'll do some face up action or post up.

Defense gets more stingy down the stretch, sure, but opportunities for a lot of similar shots are still available. I don't know any easy solution to "solve" what Blake would need to do when those shots get taken away and the defense is stingy about giving up a 5 dribble post up or letting him face up and spin (second defender is coming to strip). He might be best served this off-season in really nailing down a go to move from the face-up. Everything else can then be built off that move. I do think he already knows this and has worked on some, but that's where confidence also becomes a factor. Of course we have to acknowledge that he was never a super fluid scorer type player, he has always been a more deliberate player in terms of his moves.

Doc also realizes a lot of things. There are few if any issues the team has that he isn't aware of since he mentions them at some point in time. It's whether he does anything about them or seemingly makes the right decisions to alleviate those issues that is the problem.

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In regards to Jamal, I want to be realistic. I'm not going to expect Doc to give him zero minutes, but you put him on & first 4 FGA, if he isn't 2/4 or better he's done for the half. Second half, if he doesn't make one of his first two shots, that's that. Of course heaves at then end of the quarter won't count, have to be real shots.

To give him his due, he shot very well for the last 30-35 games of the season. Something like 45/42/83 and I think his TS% was 58%. Don't think he's had the long a stretch of good shooting since 13-14. Still, doesn't make me any less uninterested in seeing him on the court in the playoffs.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | TIED 1-1 

Post#938 » by KqWIN » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:25 pm

I'd like to see Quin put Favors on Luc in the helper position. The Jazz cannot stop the high PnR with their current bigs. Favors and Withey just are mobile enough. I think you start Hayward on DJ, and live with the rebounding consequences. Doc doesn't prefer to send guys to crash the offensive glass anyways. It worked with Bogut against the Grizzlies, and the Bulls are also having Jimmy switch onto the roll man when they see the PnR coming as well. The Jazz will lose if they continue to allow CP3 to have everything he wants.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | TIED 1-1 

Post#939 » by Roscoe Sheed » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:27 am

gobert is definitely a valuable player, but I don't think he is the jazz best player. I think Hayward is.
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Re: WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | TIED 1-1 

Post#940 » by QRich3 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:31 am

KqWIN wrote:I'd like to see Quin put Favors on Luc in the helper position. The Jazz cannot stop the high PnR with their current bigs. Favors and Withey just are mobile enough. I think you start Hayward on DJ, and live with the rebounding consequences. Doc doesn't prefer to send guys to crash the offensive glass anyways. It worked with Bogut against the Grizzlies, and the Bulls are also having Jimmy switch onto the roll man when they see the PnR coming as well. The Jazz will lose if they continue to allow CP3 to have everything he wants.

Problem with that is now you have Hayward covering the Paul/DJ pick'n'roll, which is just gonna be easy lob after easy lob. And DJ does crash the offensive boards quite heavily, it's the rest of the team that don't even try. Doc usually lets one man do it, and DJ might be a top 3 offensive rebounder in the league, ability wise.

The Warriors tried that again against Robertson and the Thunder last year and it didn't work at all. To be honest, I think the main reason it worked against the Grizzlies was the shock factor. Once you're ready for it, there's many ways you can exploit it. Which doesn't mean that heavily sagging from Luc doesn't hurt the Clippers, it does, and a lot. But not enough to completely ignore him and let the big man of the team be free.

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