How come Westbrook gets bashed so much

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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#61 » by jimmy_smith » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:34 pm

He stop passing once he get 10 assist.
Last game he has 11 assist in the 1st half and finish with 13.

Down 6 with 13 seconds to play, he go for a lay up instead of 3 because he need TD with 50 points.

He score 51 with 17-43 FG, 15-18 FT. That's just .50 TS, wayyyyy below league average. (around .55 TS).
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#62 » by leolozon » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:36 pm

nbafan38 wrote:
Crooked-I wrote:
lamscott wrote:Westbrook looks like Kobe part deux. he'll understand it sooner or later.


Yeah he's pretty much getting the Kobe treatment in 2006. Selfish, chucker, not a winner, doesn't make teammates better, etc. Kobe shut everyone up by winning tho. Maybe Westbrook will do the same(definitely not on that sorry ass Thunder team).


Westbrook won't be able to become Kobe unless he somehow lands Blake Griffin as his Paul Gasol.


... He had Durant who's better than Griffin or Gasol. Are we acting like Westbrook never played with a top 3 player?
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#63 » by Crooked-I » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:37 pm

nbafan38 wrote:
Crooked-I wrote:
lamscott wrote:Westbrook looks like Kobe part deux. he'll understand it sooner or later.


Yeah he's pretty much getting the Kobe treatment in 2006. Selfish, chucker, not a winner, doesn't make teammates better, etc. Kobe shut everyone up by winning tho. Maybe Westbrook will do the same(definitely not on that sorry ass Thunder team).


Westbrook won't be able to become Kobe unless he somehow lands Blake Griffin as his Paul Gasol.


Lakers sign Blake Griffin this offseason then trade for Westbrook :wink:
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#64 » by nbafan38 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:38 pm

leolozon wrote:
nbafan38 wrote:
Crooked-I wrote:
Yeah he's pretty much getting the Kobe treatment in 2006. Selfish, chucker, not a winner, doesn't make teammates better, etc. Kobe shut everyone up by winning tho. Maybe Westbrook will do the same(definitely not on that sorry ass Thunder team).


Westbrook won't be able to become Kobe unless he somehow lands Blake Griffin as his Paul Gasol.


... He had Durant who's better than Griffin or Gasol. Are we acting like Westbrook never played with a top 3 player?


Durant would be more the Shaq figure if you compare the careers and prime Shaq was much more dominant than Durant but either way I think Kobe was better than Westbrook but their are definitely similarities in playing style and drive.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#65 » by leolozon » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:45 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:Many Warriors/Durant fans feel the need to downplay Westbrook's season in order to validate Durant's decision to leave OKC. Many Rockets/Harden fans feel the need to downplay Westbrook's season in order to prop up Harden's MVP case. It adds up to a lot of people with agendas grasping for any reason to blame Westbrook for everything that goes wrong.


About 7% of the league's fans... 2 teams out of 30...

You want to talk about those that praises Westbrook for everything that goes right and ignore when everything goes wrong?

Some people just prefer when basketball is played as team's game and not as an individual game. Because, you know, basketball is actually a team's game, and some people think that you should win as a team and lose as a team.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#66 » by and1GS » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:45 pm

nbafan38 wrote:
Chinook wrote:
Nolan wrote:His shot selection and decision making are big part of it.


Honestly, it just seems like he's a lot younger than he is. If a guy like Murray ran through games like a bull in a china shop while flashing brilliant play-making and tremendous athleticism, it would be really exciting. But Russ has been in the league for like a decade. He's too old to still have so many "rough patches" to his game.


If he played with a capable team I think he'd play different. Anyone watching the games can see how the Rockets bench just completely outclasses the Thunder.


Obviously a moot point now, but he played this same way at a lower volume last year on a very good team after years of practice to 'get it right' by cleaning up his shot selection and making smarter plays. In last year's series v. the warriors I was praying Russ would go into 'y'all can't stop me!' mode...because that was the only way we were gonna beat the Thunder. That's basically what happened.

I get what he's trying to do, but it's just tough to envisage how he improves from here as a 10-year pro who has a high chance at winning an MVP for playing the way he does.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#67 » by Scizzup » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:49 pm

I don't think he is getting bashed that much but any player would get bashed after going 4/18 in the 4th Q. I like him but simply put he doesn't play the game the way some people expect and sometime he really does too much. I know he was disappointed they almost lost the lead when he sat but those were the same teammates that helped him get the lead in the first place. Adams didn't shoot in the 4th and he was taking dribble pull ups without even initiating any real action. Mcbuckets was in and aside of the one 3 he made start of 4th not sure Russ passed to him anymore.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#68 » by devilsace » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:53 pm

GrandTheftRondo wrote:
dontforget wrote:
GrandTheftRondo wrote:Because he's been like this for years and the Thunder probably didn't win a title because of it. Yes they had health issues in some of those seasons, but last season they didn't and they absolutely blew their biggest chance. Durant sucked as well, but at least Durant isn't constantly determined to take as many horrible shots as he can just because he knows he's talented and a number of them will go in.

Westbrook is a lot like Kobe and honestly that type of playstyle is hard to watch.

Honestly though, all this defence for Westbrook is even worse. The teammates are bad argument has some merit, but we need to quit acting like he's on the Brooklyn Nets. The team is mostly the same as last year's and they were a game off beating the Warriors.

Does the team go to **** when Westbrook sits? Yes. But I think a lot of people are ignoring a great point a few people have brought up lately. How fun and good is it for the other players when your star guy is dominating the ball and giving it up only when he doesn't score? Not very. It's a lot like Iverson with the 76ers. His play got some wins and even a finals appearance, but it's hardly going to take you plays. Westbrook dominating the ball is never going to allow his teammates to have any sort of rhythm or confidence. So of course when you sub Westbrook they totally go to ****. I find it hard to believe that the likes of Oladipo wouldn't be a better player if Westbrook was a more willing passer of the ball. LeBron had some terrible teams in his first stint in Cleveland, yet always passed the ball and his teammates certainly didn't go to **** like Westbrook's do when called upon to make plays.


That's short sighted. The Thunder didn't win a title with KD & Westbrook because management was cheap and let Harden go because they didn't want to pay him. The core of KD, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka went to the finals when they were so young. KD (4th year) Westbrook (3rd year), Harden and Ibaka (2nd year). After that it seemed they had a injury every year.

Watching Westbrook play with the raw intensity is a beauty of thing to watch. People can crap on his shot selection all they want, but I'd take a guy with the fire and intensity of Westbrook any day. Especially in a league where the regular season is so boring.

The only thing that was hard to see was that crap of team around him. Westbrook leaves with 2 mins in the 3rd up 12, and by the time the 4th begins it was down to a 3 point lead. The game was lost there.

And you think OKC blowing a 12 point lead has nothing to do with the way Westbrook plays?

Sure you sit a star player and you'll probably blow a few points. Understandable. What people seem to ignore though is how Westbrook's play likely has an impact on his teammates. You ever played with a ball hog? Standing there calling for the ball while they go 1 on 5, only dumping it to you when they can't score makes it incredibly hard to get going. The NBA is a league where the players are all about rhythm, muscle memory and consistency. Westbrook hogging the ball throws that all out the window for his teammates. Then when he sits down these guys are getting used to the ball again, they're not in rhythm when it comes to their shots and they won't find a rhythm because the defence clamps down on them fully aware that Westbrook is on the bench. It's not rocket science. It's hard to quantify it, but I'd be staggered if that isn't part of the reason OKC looks so poor when Westbrook isn't making plays. Guys like Oladipo, Kanter, Grant, McDermott etc are not high school role players completely incapable of making some nice plays.


Thank you...Ive been trying to say this for awhile...Russell Westbrook is having an incredible season dont get me wrong and he deserves to be in the MVP convo...But if the whole offensive gameplan has been designed around you and the rest of the team doesnt get touches when your own the floor, how do you expect to have a rhythm and put a gameplan into action when you are not on the floor...Every superstar gets dumped on but Westbrook has been getting the same criticism since he has been in this league, tunnel vision & poor shot selection...That hasnt changed this year but granted he has had to force alot more this year than previous years...OKC has proved that they can't win with just Westbrook but the question is can they win if they put a better team around him...Will he be able to lead a team to a championship?
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#69 » by MartinToVaught » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:10 pm

leolozon wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:Many Warriors/Durant fans feel the need to downplay Westbrook's season in order to validate Durant's decision to leave OKC. Many Rockets/Harden fans feel the need to downplay Westbrook's season in order to prop up Harden's MVP case. It adds up to a lot of people with agendas grasping for any reason to blame Westbrook for everything that goes wrong.


About 7% of the league's fans... 2 teams out of 30...

You want to talk about those that praises Westbrook for everything that goes right and ignore when everything goes wrong?

Some people just prefer when basketball is played as team's game and not as an individual game. Because, you know, basketball is actually a team's game, and some people think that you should win as a team and lose as a team.

You can appreciate a team game without being delusional. I hate isoball and heroball as much as anyone, but I'm not going to criticize Westbrook too harshly for it when he's literally the only option on a terrible team. Whipping the ball around like the Spurs do won't magically turn Roberson into Steph Curry or Oladipo into D-Wade. The Thunder still would have lost if Westbrook spent the fourth quarter setting his teammates up with bricks instead of laying all the bricks himself. The difference is that Westbrook heroballing still has a higher ceiling than Westbrook passing - that's how bad the Thunder's roster is.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#70 » by nbafan38 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:12 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
leolozon wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:Many Warriors/Durant fans feel the need to downplay Westbrook's season in order to validate Durant's decision to leave OKC. Many Rockets/Harden fans feel the need to downplay Westbrook's season in order to prop up Harden's MVP case. It adds up to a lot of people with agendas grasping for any reason to blame Westbrook for everything that goes wrong.


About 7% of the league's fans... 2 teams out of 30...

You want to talk about those that praises Westbrook for everything that goes right and ignore when everything goes wrong?

Some people just prefer when basketball is played as team's game and not as an individual game. Because, you know, basketball is actually a team's game, and some people think that you should win as a team and lose as a team.

You can appreciate a team game without being delusional. I hate isoball and heroball as much as anyone, but I'm not going to criticize Westbrook too harshly for it when he's literally the only option on a terrible team. Whipping the ball around like the Spurs do won't magically turn Roberson into Steph Curry or Oladipo into D-Wade. The Thunder still would have lost if Westbrook spent the fourth quarter setting his teammates up with bricks instead of laying all the bricks himself. The difference is that Westbrook heroballing still has a higher ceiling than Westbrook passing - that's how bad the Thunder's roster is.



Yes exactly if you're point was the Thunder lost with hero ball I agree and if you're point is the Thunder would have lost by even more if Westbrook deferred to his teammates throughout the 4th quarter I also agree.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#71 » by Ballerhogger » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:32 pm

His shot selection is crazy when hes worn down. He needs to let the game come to him. He needs better team around him no dobut, but his turbo boost can only go so long.. Gotta slow down the pace of the game when you have lead over better team.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#72 » by Scizzup » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:33 pm

nbafan38 wrote:
MartinToVaught wrote:
leolozon wrote:
About 7% of the league's fans... 2 teams out of 30...

You want to talk about those that praises Westbrook for everything that goes right and ignore when everything goes wrong?

Some people just prefer when basketball is played as team's game and not as an individual game. Because, you know, basketball is actually a team's game, and some people think that you should win as a team and lose as a team.

You can appreciate a team game without being delusional. I hate isoball and heroball as much as anyone, but I'm not going to criticize Westbrook too harshly for it when he's literally the only option on a terrible team. Whipping the ball around like the Spurs do won't magically turn Roberson into Steph Curry or Oladipo into D-Wade. The Thunder still would have lost if Westbrook spent the fourth quarter setting his teammates up with bricks instead of laying all the bricks himself. The difference is that Westbrook heroballing still has a higher ceiling than Westbrook passing - that's how bad the Thunder's roster is.



Yes exactly if you're point was the Thunder lost with hero ball I agree and if you're point is the Thunder would have lost by even more if Westbrook deferred to his teammates throughout the 4th quarter I also agree.


We don't know that and hero ball/ suspect decision making has always been his weakness. The others scored 50+ through 3's Quarters but they never got a lot of tries after that. It's not even so much he shot all those shot it's how he did it. Dribble pull ups, dribble screen pull up. Yes he was making them in regular season but enough sample size available that Russ isn't that good of a shooter. I mean the 3 he made off the uncalled backcourt should have been a pass to a open Mcdemort who was shooting well.

People say KD was poor in game 6 which he was but Russ had like 4 turnovers in the last 2 mins....
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#73 » by Sebastian » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:38 pm

nbafan38 wrote:yet his roster is much worse than either of their rosters ever were.


No, not even close. Look at some of the Bulls teams MJ dragged into the playoffs early in his career. Arguably the worst supporting casts any top 20 player has ever had.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#74 » by nbafan38 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:40 pm

Sebastian wrote:
nbafan38 wrote:yet his roster is much worse than either of their rosters ever were.


No, not even close. Look at some of the Bulls teams MJ dragged into the playoffs early in his career. Arguably the worst supporting casts any top 20 player has ever had.


I meant the rosters they won championships with.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#75 » by Jedi32 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:58 pm

Bertrob wrote:like kobe his die-hard fans are 10 years old and annoy everyone

Yeah because posting things like this makes a person seem way more mature than a 10 year old. :roll:
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#76 » by Saint_Killa » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:02 pm

The most stupid thing is that people say, that he has bad teammates beside him. In what world Steven Adams, Taj Gibson, Andre Roberson, Victor Oladipo, Enes Kanter, Doug Mcdermott are bad players? LeBron had a freakin Larry Hughes and his team made to the finals.. c'mon people, that argument is just getting old.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#77 » by MartinToVaught » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:11 pm

Saint_Killa wrote:In what world Steven Adams, Taj Gibson, Andre Roberson, Victor Oladipo, Enes Kanter, Doug Mcdermott are bad players?

In this world. The world where Adams and Roberson were the only other players on the whole team with a positive BPM, and they were +0.5 and +0.1 respectively. The world where the Thunder were -8.2 net points per 100 possessions with Westbrook off the court. The world where the Thunder blew a 12-point lead in a game they were dominating as soon as Westbrook had to take a quick breather on the bench.

LeBron had a freakin Larry Hughes and his team made to the finals..

So basically, your biggest criticism of Westbrook is that he's "only" an MVP-caliber superstar and not a GOAT candidate like LeBron is. And that's supposed to diminish Westbrook as a player in his own right? :crazy:
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#78 » by Scizzup » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:35 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:
Saint_Killa wrote:In what world Steven Adams, Taj Gibson, Andre Roberson, Victor Oladipo, Enes Kanter, Doug Mcdermott are bad players?

In this world. The world where Adams and Roberson were the only other players on the whole team with a positive BPM, and they were +0.5 and +0.1 respectively. The world where the Thunder were -8.2 net points per 100 possessions with Westbrook off the court. The world where the Thunder blew a 12-point lead in a game they were dominating as soon as Westbrook had to take a quick breather on the bench.

LeBron had a freakin Larry Hughes and his team made to the finals..

So basically, your biggest criticism of Westbrook is that he's "only" an MVP-caliber superstar and not a GOAT candidate like LeBron is. And that's supposed to diminish Westbrook as a player in his own right? :crazy:



You might want to avoid BPM when Russ has over a 55% Ast and 40% usg. There is a reason he broke BPM and why Adams/Roberson/Oladipo all fell off on that metric from last year.... Oladipo still rates well in apbrmetrics and rpm even though he is has a CAREER low of -1.8 BPM.

Westbrook been great but this current okc squad even with Gallinari (no KD) would still be worse than this current OKC squad with KD and Bledoe (no Russ). He just isn't fit to carry a team like this
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#79 » by mvpshaq32 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:41 pm

nbafan38 wrote:
Chinook wrote:
Nolan wrote:His shot selection and decision making are big part of it.


Honestly, it just seems like he's a lot younger than he is. If a guy like Murray ran through games like a bull in a china shop while flashing brilliant play-making and tremendous athleticism, it would be really exciting. But Russ has been in the league for like a decade. He's too old to still have so many "rough patches" to his game.


If he played with a capable team I think he'd play different. Anyone watching the games can see how the Rockets bench just completely outclasses the Thunder.


he's played with more than a capable team for 8 years. He still makes the same mistakes we criticized him for back then, but now he doesn't have anyone else to shoulder the blame.
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Re: How come Westbrook gets bashed so much 

Post#80 » by AUnit1390 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:42 pm

Almost every top 5 players gets bash whenever they lose a game. Why would it be any different with Westbrook. Hell for Lebron he was so clearly the best player for a period of time but majority of media and fans kept talking trash about a player. Its the world we live in now with social media and constant feedback on players. I think if MJ lived during this time he would even get bashed.

My Take, I respect and think Westbrook is a great player but I would not want him on my team.

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