Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes)

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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#21 » by RaptorRed » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:28 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:How about I phrase it this way, the Rockets are an elite team with an elite record. To me any team that is elite is a contender. The Thunder are a marginal subpar team.


You're just phrasing how you want to phrase it to improve your point for Harden MVP. A contender is a team that has a realistic chance at winning the title , in the NBA a random team cannot win the title , it's impossible in a 7 game series the better team always wins unless a freak injury happens. Now , do the rockets have any sort of chance of winning the title ? the answer is no, even if they somehow beat the spurs , they still have to beat the warriors and cavs. This is impossible. They are not a contender.

And your definition is way more subjective than mine. You can make an argument that no team is a contender outside of GS this year. In any given year you could exclude 29 teams from being a "contender" if you think that there is a favorite for the title.

I'd rather stick with a simple definition, is the team elite or not? If you're elite, you're a contender.


Please define elite and contender
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#22 » by Shock Defeat » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:31 pm

RaptorRed wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
You're just phrasing how you want to phrase it to improve your point for Harden MVP. A contender is a team that has a realistic chance at winning the title , in the NBA a random team cannot win the title , it's impossible in a 7 game series the better team always wins unless a freak injury happens. Now , do the rockets have any sort of chance of winning the title ? the answer is no, even if they somehow beat the spurs , they still have to beat the warriors and cavs. This is impossible. They are not a contender.

And your definition is way more subjective than mine. You can make an argument that no team is a contender outside of GS this year. In any given year you could exclude 29 teams from being a "contender" if you think that there is a favorite for the title.

I'd rather stick with a simple definition, is the team elite or not? If you're elite, you're a contender.


Please define elite and contender

I view them as the same thing. You're elite if you have a top 4 or so record in the NBA during the season.

A contender is an elite team, that's it.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#23 » by HurricaneKid » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:50 pm

RaptorRed wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
You're just phrasing how you want to phrase it to improve your point for Harden MVP. A contender is a team that has a realistic chance at winning the title , in the NBA a random team cannot win the title , it's impossible in a 7 game series the better team always wins unless a freak injury happens. Now , do the rockets have any sort of chance of winning the title ? the answer is no, even if they somehow beat the spurs , they still have to beat the warriors and cavs. This is impossible. They are not a contender.

And your definition is way more subjective than mine. You can make an argument that no team is a contender outside of GS this year. In any given year you could exclude 29 teams from being a "contender" if you think that there is a favorite for the title.

I'd rather stick with a simple definition, is the team elite or not? If you're elite, you're a contender.


Please define elite and contender


They had an SRS of 5.84 this season. That is a better SRS than 4 of the last 7 NBA Champions. You can be suspicious if their style will translate into playoff success. But you cannot say they weren't good enough in the RS to challenge for a title.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#24 » by BeatDaCavs420 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:52 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:3rd best record in the NBA...


So they have a shot at the title ? You really believe that ?

How about I phrase it this way, the Rockets are an elite team with an elite record. To me any team that is elite is a contender. The Thunder are a marginal subpar team.

So Rockets are finally admitting Harden is surrounded with a elite team compared to Russ surrounded with bums
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#25 » by RaptorRed » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:53 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:And your definition is way more subjective than mine. You can make an argument that no team is a contender outside of GS this year. In any given year you could exclude 29 teams from being a "contender" if you think that there is a favorite for the title.

I'd rather stick with a simple definition, is the team elite or not? If you're elite, you're a contender.


Please define elite and contender


They had an SRS of 5.84 this season. That is a better SRS than 4 of the last 7 NBA Champions. You can be suspicious if their style will translate into playoff success. But you cannot say they weren't good enough in the RS to challenge for a title.

I'm not suspicious, I'm certain it won't. So you believe they have a shot at the title ?
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#26 » by RaptorRed » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:54 pm

BeatDaCavs420 wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
So they have a shot at the title ? You really believe that ?

How about I phrase it this way, the Rockets are an elite team with an elite record. To me any team that is elite is a contender. The Thunder are a marginal subpar team.

So finally Rockets are finally admitting Harden is surrounded with a elite team compared to Russ surrounded with bums


They change it up depending on their current argument
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#27 » by Shock Defeat » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:00 pm

BeatDaCavs420 wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
So they have a shot at the title ? You really believe that ?

How about I phrase it this way, the Rockets are an elite team with an elite record. To me any team that is elite is a contender. The Thunder are a marginal subpar team.

So finally Rockets are finally admitting Harden is surrounded with a elite team compared to Russ surrounded with bums

Uh what? Last I checked Harden was a huge part of why the Rockets are an elite team, and Westbrook is big part of the Thunder being a marginal team.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#28 » by 10DayContract » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:02 pm

I love all the tears in MVP threads. It's like talking politics.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#29 » by cpower » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:02 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:Harden got screwed twice for opposite reasons.

2015: Harden lost the MVP to Curry because Curry's team was better. Harden had the raw stats advantage and let's not act like the Rockets were nobodies, they were contenders as the #2 seed and division champs. Most of his team was garbage especially due to Dwight missing half the season. Harden carried that squad. No one cared that Curry's team was also stacked with the best bench in the NBA.

2017: Harden loses to Westbrook even though Westbrook's team is worse. We are talking about a sixth seed here, a non-contending team. Westbrook has better raw stats and apparently that's enough. Harden gets penalized for having more help yet nobody penalized Curry in 2015.

Harden does not have a case in 2015 though. Curry had a better season stat wise and he led to a better team record. All advance stats went for his way.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#30 » by Shock Defeat » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:06 pm

RaptorRed wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
Please define elite and contender


They had an SRS of 5.84 this season. That is a better SRS than 4 of the last 7 NBA Champions. You can be suspicious if their style will translate into playoff success. But you cannot say they weren't good enough in the RS to challenge for a title.

I'm not suspicious, I'm certain it won't. So you believe they have a shot at the title ?

What if he says yes the Rockets are contender? How would you go about disproving that theory? Obviously you can't use the fact that they don't win a title as proof, because only one team can win a title a year. You are essentially saying that there is only one rightful contender a year, the champion. Very pointless to even go into that discussion because there's no right or wrong.

My definition of contender is vastly superior to yours.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#32 » by RaptorRed » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:11 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:
They had an SRS of 5.84 this season. That is a better SRS than 4 of the last 7 NBA Champions. You can be suspicious if their style will translate into playoff success. But you cannot say they weren't good enough in the RS to challenge for a title.

I'm not suspicious, I'm certain it won't. So you believe they have a shot at the title ?

What if he says yes the Rockets are contender? How would you go about disproving that theory? Obviously you can't use the fact that they don't win a title as proof, because only one team can win a title a year. You are essentially saying that there is only one rightful contender a year, the champion. Very pointless to even go into that discussion because there's no right or wrong.

My definition of contender is vastly superior to yours.


I already explained .. a contender has a realisitic chance of winning the title , even a slim chance. Obviously the warriors and cavs have a very good chance . Aside from that ? The spurs have an outside chance , most people don't see them beating the warriors and cavs but there is a very small chance it could happen and you could make a case for it. Aside from that there really aren't any contenders , I personally think the Clippers have an outside chance if they somehow get it all together and play at an elite level so I would consider them marginal contenders. But the rockets ? they have no chance , you can't argue they will beat spurs warriors and cavs. It's just not happening. If you want to make a case for how thy can beat those teams then please go ahead. If not , they aren't a contender.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#33 » by MagicMadness » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:11 pm

LeBron is the MVP, and proved it again last night.

In the second half of that game he had "nobody" around him, just like Westbrook. Yet, per usual, he was 10 times more effective and efficient, and actually helped his team win.

Switch out Harden for James and the Rockets go from semi-contenders to legit contenders.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#34 » by Confiture » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:14 pm

MagicMadness wrote:LeBron is the MVP, and proved it again last night.

In the second half of that game he had "nobody" around him, just like Westbrook. Yet, he was 10 times more effective and efficient.


LeBron plays winning basketball, plain and simple
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#35 » by durka » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:15 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:
They had an SRS of 5.84 this season. That is a better SRS than 4 of the last 7 NBA Champions. You can be suspicious if their style will translate into playoff success. But you cannot say they weren't good enough in the RS to challenge for a title.

I'm not suspicious, I'm certain it won't. So you believe they have a shot at the title ?

What if he says yes the Rockets are contender? How would you go about disproving that theory? Obviously you can't use the fact that they don't win a title as proof, because only one team can win a title a year. You are essentially saying that there is only one rightful contender a year, the champion. Very pointless to even go into that discussion because there's no right or wrong.

My definition of contender is vastly superior to yours.


I'd argue that they play under a coach who always has elite offensive teams that dominate in the RS but get snuffed out once they play a good defensive team in the playoffs. A MDA coached team is never winning a title, I'd bet lots of money on that.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#36 » by BombsquadSammy » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:17 pm

RaptorRed wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:I'm not suspicious, I'm certain it won't. So you believe they have a shot at the title ?

What if he says yes the Rockets are contender? How would you go about disproving that theory? Obviously you can't use the fact that they don't win a title as proof, because only one team can win a title a year. You are essentially saying that there is only one rightful contender a year, the champion. Very pointless to even go into that discussion because there's no right or wrong.

My definition of contender is vastly superior to yours.


I already explained .. a contender has a realisitic chance of winning the title , even a slim chance.


This is self-contradictory, as 'realistic chance' and 'slim chance' are somewhat contrary terms. I have a slim chance of winning the lottery and a realistic chance of not winning it.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#37 » by RaptorRed » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:24 pm

BombsquadSammy wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:What if he says yes the Rockets are contender? How would you go about disproving that theory? Obviously you can't use the fact that they don't win a title as proof, because only one team can win a title a year. You are essentially saying that there is only one rightful contender a year, the champion. Very pointless to even go into that discussion because there's no right or wrong.

My definition of contender is vastly superior to yours.


I already explained .. a contender has a realisitic chance of winning the title , even a slim chance.


This is self-contradictory, as 'realistic chance' and 'slim chance' are somewhat contrary terms. I have a slim chance of winning the lottery and a realistic chance of not winning it.


I guess if you want to be picky about it ? I could also say the spurs have a realistic chance of winning the title. You can make the case for it, but it's also a slim possibility it happens...
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#38 » by BombsquadSammy » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:31 pm

RaptorRed wrote:
BombsquadSammy wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
I already explained .. a contender has a realisitic chance of winning the title , even a slim chance.


This is self-contradictory, as 'realistic chance' and 'slim chance' are somewhat contrary terms. I have a slim chance of winning the lottery and a realistic chance of not winning it.


I guess if you want to be picky about it ? I could also say the spurs have a realistic chance of winning the title. You can make the case for it, but it's also a slim possibility it happens...


Well, that speaks to my point. To say a team has a slim chance of winning is to say that they could but probably won't. So to say that the MVP can only come from a contender, if you maintain that a contender must have a realistic chance to win the title, you necessarily limit the award to GS (and possibly Cleveland) players.

The other problem with your position is your assertion that the Rockets have no chance. I get the argument that they probably can't beat GS, but to say it definitely can't happen is claiming to know something you can't know, and since you give other teams a slim chance, it seems odd to single out the Rockets as a 50+ team with no chance.
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#39 » by Dupp » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:37 pm

I don't even like harden at all but it irks me when someone doesn't get what they earnt. Harden is clearly the MVP.

Westbrook might have performed at a SLIGHTLY higher lever... maybe.

But hardens got a significantly better team record and the team has improved and smashed expectations in a way the thunder haven't come close to.

All things that usually factor heavily in MVP voting.

It's a sham... I mean shame
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Re: Russell Westbrook will win the NBA MVP award over James Harden (after considering 62/100 votes) 

Post#40 » by RaptorRed » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:45 pm

BombsquadSammy wrote:
RaptorRed wrote:
BombsquadSammy wrote:
This is self-contradictory, as 'realistic chance' and 'slim chance' are somewhat contrary terms. I have a slim chance of winning the lottery and a realistic chance of not winning it.


I guess if you want to be picky about it ? I could also say the spurs have a realistic chance of winning the title. You can make the case for it, but it's also a slim possibility it happens...


Well, that speaks to my point. To say a team has a slim chance of winning is to say that they could but probably won't. So to say that the MVP can only come from a contender, if you maintain that a contender must have a realistic chance to win the title, you necessarily limit the award to GS (and possibly Cleveland) players.

The other problem with your position is your assertion that the Rockets have no chance. I get the argument that they probably can't beat GS, but to say it definitely can't happen is claiming to know something you can't know, and since you give other teams a slim chance, it seems odd to single out the Rockets as a 50+ team with no chance.


Okay I can word it another way , I contender has a chance of winning the championship. Like I said previously , the Spurs aren't favored to win but you can make an argument that they can beat the warriors. The clippers are a marginal contender as well , I can make a case that they can beat the warriros because they have a superstar in Chris Paul and have 2 great bigs ( which is the warriors weakness) obviously they've been playing terrible but if they somehow start playing at an elite level like they did a few years ago , you can make a case that they can beat the cavs and warriors. The rockets ? You can maybe make a case for them beating the spurs , although I really doubt it happens , but the warriors and cavs ? it's just not happening. I say that as a certainty because the NBA is not like NHL or MLB where a few lucky bounces and a hot streak can win you the title. The best team always wins in a 7 game series. I mean sure, you can hope for a freak injury to win a round , but the rockets would need freak injuries to the warriors and cavs to even have a chance of beating them and what are the chances of that happening ? I would bet any money at any odds they don't win the title. It just not even a remote possibility. If you want to make a case for them , please tell me how they can beat the warriors and cavs in a 7 game series
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