Blue_and_Whte wrote:Personally Im tired of us giving away talent for no reason and I've said numerous times that we need to add to the existing talent and make moves if they benefit the team as they become available. I don't agree that they would need to shop Payton if they drafted DSJ, I'd be thrilled to keep both. While I don't think Payton is a starter, I do think he's an NBA pg. On that we slightly disagree on.
I see your point about playing the young guys they've invested high picks in but Vogel and ownership have again targeted playoff push which i personally think is premature. They'll try to win games
Vogel showed he can be a good defensive coach even without elite defensive talent; the year PG13 went down, the Pacers were surprisingly feisty. I don't know if thats overall good for ORL, because in today's league you HAVE to be good at offense as well, and we've seen literally nothing in either IND or ORL to show Vogel knows how to coach offense. He's been incredibly insistent on staying big, and shoehorning AG to the 3 was just ludicrous. I don't buy he was forced into it by management, because Vogel was JUST signed to a five year deal - thats as much security as possible.
Vogel might be a guy thats a really good defensive assistant, but not sharp enough tactically to make it as the guy in charge of everything. Unfortunately, that same five year contract means he's not going anywhere for at least a year or two, so he'll have time to prove me wrong.
As for Payton: it comes down to $$$. He knows what ORL invested in him, and he may feel like he's entitlted to start. As a result, he may demand starter money. Hell, he may demand the max, just because . . . money.
If Payton is your backup PG defensive specialist, he's worth . . . what? Bear in mind his main value in theory is guarding 1's, some 2's, and he's not big enough to guard 3's. He does not shoot well enough to space the floor, so he needs the ball in his hand, but he isn't an elite playmaker. Really, he's soaking up touches but not doing that much with them, and otherwise his value is extremely limited. So again . . . if he says, gimme max money (25% max is over $25M starting), you laugh and trade him. If he says gimme good starter money $15-20M, you laugh and trade him. To keep him, I think you gotta get down to under $10M . . . probably something like, sadly, DJ Augustin money for like three years or something. At that point, I think Payton laughs at ORL and doesn't take it, because most agents for young "Starting point guards" think they deserve way more.
This is a delicate situation: if Payton is slighted by the offer, he's gonna potentially sulk all year. You don't need that attitude on a rebuilding team. He might even be somewhat justified in being miffed, but this is the reality of being a bad team that made a mistake. The relationship just isn't healthy for either side, so split while u can.
There is a real danger of making a PDX type mistake: their owner thought, KEEP ALL ASSETS AND RESIGN EVERYONE. Thus, Meyers Leonard got $41M; Crabbe got $75M or whatever (i think thats closer to a neutral contract than a bad one, tbh); Harkless got $40M (i think thats actually solid) . . . and Even Turner. Once you re-sign these guys, however their value automatically changes. It's like buying a car, the second u sign the paperwork you take the depreciation.
Payton on a rookie deal? You can live with that. Payton for, say 5 years, $75M? Not so much.
Consider also this draft is PG heavy AND there might be free agent PG's available on the market from those teams that draft PGs.
They already have Augustin to be the caretaker veteran to whatever PG they draft, assuming they go with a PG
