What is Ainge and Magic smoking?

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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#81 » by Wilfried » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:47 am

robbie84 wrote:lol @ all those judging the situation 2 days after the trade was made.
Let's see what kind of roster Ainge puts out on opening night.
If he can add one of PG13/Butler and one of Hayward/Griffin and keep a few of those golden Brooklyn/LA/PHI picks AND keep Jaylen Brown, he's going to have the last laugh.

It's pretty unlikely that this trade for the #3 is the end game here. Ainge has always said he'd take proven talent over draftees unless it's a generational Durant/Duncan/Lebron talent.
He didn't see that in Fultz so he's probably going to try and get 2 guys who the 76ers hope Fultz will be as good as one day.

Patience people. Of course some morons will just crap on the Celtics and Ainge no matter what moves he makes. If you're one of those people, go back to your cave and stay miserable.
Dude knows what he's doing.


I also think he knows what he's doing, and he's doing a great job.

But normally, superstars aren't obtainable via trade. Mostly via Free Agency and draft.
So all these chips are very good, but he has now the problem to wait and draft and maybe become a real contender (which they aren't right now) in 5-8 years.
Or trade the picks for all-stars (not superstars) and hope it' enough to contend now.

But don't forget, if you want Butler AND Hayward, there will be other players (read: contracts) that has to go.
You can't have them both (Hayward will be around 24-25 million? Butler is around 18-19 million, you already have Horford at 27 million) and keep your core (Bradley or IT/Crowder/Olynyk) together
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#82 » by Acountant_Z » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:15 am

Ponchos wrote:
Wilfried wrote:
Ponchos wrote:
So do you think that Bebe Noguiera, Aron Baynes and David West are better defenders than Kawhi and Jokic?

Also, Steph Curry isn't a C. He isn't the anchor of the Defense. You can't have a Center who plays crap D and still be a superstar. That's why a guy like Gobert will always be better than Jokic if you want to win.


Pachulia is the anchor of the Warriors D than?

No I don't think Noguiera, Baynes and West are better defenders than Kawhi.
You cannot compare players who only play a couple of minutes with a very clear defensive role to players who play both end of the floor for 35+ minutes.

But let's leave it here. To me, Jokic is a franchise talent, with which I mean you can built a contender around. You probably will need to add good defensive players around him. But I don't see him as an incredible liability on D (like Okafor), so it would be impossible with him in the middle to win something.

First because the stats tell different and second because being incredibly good at offense is very valuable too.


Draymond is. But Zaza played very decent D when called upon.

I do hope that Jokic turns out to be the type of player you envision though, that would be fun to see.


Ponchos, you insert Jokic for KO in Boston lineup and you get 60+ win team. Offensive rating will soar, rebounding will go way up and I am certain defensive rating will not go down. You don't need Butler or Hayward (though they'd be nice to have). It's that simple.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#83 » by yesh » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:56 am

I'm sorry Josh Jackson, Ainge is for real
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#84 » by PerkinsFor3 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:03 am

Don't know about Ainge, but that other Celtics guard was smoking Kents.


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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#85 » by NormanDale » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:07 am

simmbiid wrote:
NormanDale wrote:
simmbiid wrote:


Do you want salt with those chips on your shoulders?

48 hours ago, Boston fans were calling him a beast and the consensus number 1 pick. Now, he has a losing mentality, low motor, bust potential, etc.

In all honesty, it was the right decision for both teams. Boston didn't want another guard and felt they could get what they wanted at a lower pick and walk away with another asset, and the sixers wanted him badly due to his fit on the team. A win-win for both. Both GMs were happy, I figure.


I agree with your first point. Either Fultz is a stud or he's not, but he can't be a stud when he's going to Boston and mediocre when he's going to Philly.

You're wrong about the second point, because (1) I doubt "fit" is the reason for the trade, and if it is, it's a stupid reason. You don't trade the #1 pick for fit reasons, you take the best player. None of the Celtics guards are worth passing on a future star, if that's what fultz is.

No, Ainge has convinced himself that Fultz is not the best player in the draft, and has his heart set on Jackson or Tatum. He probably considered shocking everyone by picking his real favorite at 1, but then realized he could get him anyway and add a future asset.

This move makes sense if you believe that the guy who wanted to trade 4 first round picks for Justice Winslow knows more about who will be the best player in this draft than everyone else combined.

I'm skeptical.


Do you realise how cocky you sound when you say somebody is wrong when they are just expressing an opinion? Lighten up.

Of course the sixers want Fultz because of fit. It just so happens that he is extremely gifted, which is why they were willing to trade up. The Celtics have a great PG already and a talented SG (Bradley). Their SFs are meh, so he could be seen as an upgrade over the ones they have. A combination of talent and need. That makes sense to avoid a log jam at certain positions and prevent your best players getting peeved when they lose minutes (aka Sixers center logjam).


I'm plenty "light," just commenting on a basketball forum. I didn't mean to insult you. I even agreed with your first point.

From the Celtics perspective, the fact remains that trading the #1 pick for "fit" reasons would be a bad move, particularly if you don't already have a transcendent player. You can't credibly justify this trade based on that reasoning, from the Celtics standpoint. For the Sixers, this move is a no-brainer.

Again, the only credible reasoning I could see from the Celtics standpoint is either (a) this is a precursor to something else, or (b) Ainge doesn't like Fultz nearly as much as everyone else, or likes Jackson/Tatum more.

I know the buzz is all around (a), but I find (b) more likely.

All over the Celtics board there are people saying things like, "We have to understand that Ainge's board looks nothing like everyone else's board." Less frequently discussed is whether that's actually a good thing. I don't think it is, in this case.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#86 » by fouronesix22 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:15 am

I think Lonzo is a better player than fultz. He just seems "the most nba ready" more of an all around guard. So imo he is a "generational talent" and ainge messed up by not taking him. However we dont know the up coming drafts so you cant really say anyone got fleeced. Lets revist this trade in 2019 or something
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#87 » by chrisab123 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:23 am

Could Josh Jackson become a superstar? Sure. Could Brown? Sure. I mean when dealing with upside and youth lots of things could happen. Is it likely? No. Both will probably be solid players in their careers. But the lack of a jump shot is going to hurt. Danny valued Josh Jackson as the guy in this draft and given the light return for 1 he was probably taking him at the top of the draft anyways. Because for some reason athletic wings who possess a bad jump shot such as him and Winslow are a necessity. If he ends up with Blake or Hayward then I guess the offseason went well. Even though the Fultz trade probably haunts the team for 15 years. If he somehow walks away with 2 starts then even better but the Fultz trade is still going to sting.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#88 » by Ponchos » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:25 am

Acountant_Z wrote:
Ponchos wrote:
Wilfried wrote:
Pachulia is the anchor of the Warriors D than?

No I don't think Noguiera, Baynes and West are better defenders than Kawhi.
You cannot compare players who only play a couple of minutes with a very clear defensive role to players who play both end of the floor for 35+ minutes.

But let's leave it here. To me, Jokic is a franchise talent, with which I mean you can built a contender around. You probably will need to add good defensive players around him. But I don't see him as an incredible liability on D (like Okafor), so it would be impossible with him in the middle to win something.

First because the stats tell different and second because being incredibly good at offense is very valuable too.


Draymond is. But Zaza played very decent D when called upon.

I do hope that Jokic turns out to be the type of player you envision though, that would be fun to see.


Ponchos, you insert Jokic for KO in Boston lineup and you get 60+ win team. Offensive rating will soar, rebounding will go way up and I am certain defensive rating will not go down. You don't need Butler or Hayward (though they'd be nice to have). It's that simple.


That's certainly possible. I love Jokic. He'll be an All-Star sometime in the next few years no doubt. That doesn't really change my assessment of him though. He's great, he won't be a superstar.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#89 » by Hangtime84 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:34 am

RingsDontLie wrote:Someone needs to say it. May go down as one of the worst moves in NBA history.

He wants a shot at Zion Williamson
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#90 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:45 am

I don't like this trade because I wanted Fultz but clearly Ainge didn't like what he saw with him and was not going to pick him anyway. The guy Ainge wants will be there at 3 plus he has another pick.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#91 » by whysoserious » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:56 am

It's good value for only moving down two spots and with no true generational player available at the first overall pick and with a roster full of PG options.

The problem with this is that the Celtics are in a very tough spot with all these picks and young guys. IT will get his max next year and many of the young guys they have are going to come up for big extensions with the sizeable increase in the cap. They are going to have to pay these guys serious coin and if they don't cash in those future picks plus a few roster players they're going to have to walk away from some guys.

Additionally, Ainge seems to want to make the trade for a superstar but wants to give up the least possible in the trade. Don't blame him for that but I think teams around the league look at it and say we're just not going to hand you a dynasty without giving us your top assets for our superstars.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#92 » by Froob » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:04 pm

I hope he's right...allegedly he was taking KD over Oden back in the day. You only make this trade if you think the guy at 3 is as good or better than Fultz. Legacy defining trade. Nobody will care what he did with the big 3 if he ****s this up.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#93 » by reggielewis » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:20 pm

Let's clear a few things up- first IT has already said that yes he wants to be paid but that he wants tow in and have talent around him, which means, he is not getting or taking 30 million dollars. So that's one.
Two, If Ainge didn't think that Fultz was a enter than a mix of Bradley, Smart, and IT then he has the right to break that pick into a lower ( albeit lottery pick) this year and continue to grab assets should someone else shake free.
Three- many writers do not believe that this is his last move, ppl think that he went this route to move this pick for someone else but that trading a first for whoever that person is could not be justified.
Fourth and most important, should we un-sticky the page when Ainge traded PP, KG and Terry for 3 future firsts and Wallace's albatross contract to see all the reactions at that point? My point is, time will tell as it did with that trade. I liked Fults, I though he would a good mix with Brown and are youth moving forward but I watched 2 games of his and can not be able to evaluate fully whether or not he is a stud or not. Ainge ( like every other NBA office) has people to do that for him and obviously they liked him enough to make he pick if they didn't like any deals out there but not enough to make him off limits. I think he will be good but he will take time. his numbers will be inflated because he will paly on a young team which is great for him, he would have come off the bench here and the value of moving him later on if we chose to would not have been a possibility. I am going to sit back and see how this plays out and we can begin to revisit this, next year, at this time.
P.S> I also believe he is thinking about trading the 3rd for PG and taking that gamble. I appreciate that he is not scared by things or lives in this place that he can't take chances. It Is because of him that we hired a no-name coach who has been brilliant. Traded our last all star for a pick and a throw in at the time ( or everyone thought) in Crowder who has been a solid rotation player who is on a scary good contract for either a trade or to keep. Moved dust and lint for IT who is making peanuts and has changed this team. Etc Etc ETC He has earned this city's trust so now we wait and see.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#94 » by Winter » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:20 pm

It just a move.

Although first pick overall usually turn out to be decent to great players, few seldom bring the teams draft them to the ring.

Of last 20+ years, Tim Duncan and David Robinson is the one that bring their original draft team to the ring.

You can count Kyrie Irving if you like. LeBorn went out and come back as FA.

And only TD and Kyrie Irving is the one that get ring within 7 years when they get drafted. With the way the players can now change team on their own will, they can consider change after 7 years without too hard a work. Frankly, when LeBorn sit, that Cav team can not win any games, so that gives you some idea the value of the 1st draft pick.

Even if you add the #1 draft bring his original team to final and not change team in between, you add LeBorn, AI, Howard and Shaq for the past 30 years. 7 players in 30 years draft. And only 2 bring you a ring before they earn right to change team in FA.

Even Ainge's team that won the ring the major player Pierce is draft #10, Rondo is #22, Heat Wade is #6, GSW Curry is #6, Kobe is #13, Dirk is picked at #7, Manu, Park, Kawhi all picked in middle to lower range.

If your goal is win a ring in next 7 years, keep #1 pick and try to get him ready is as same to eye in a trading or FA. Unless 76er get a players that bring them a ring in 7 years, this trade can not be too ugly. For 76er that is different consideration, they first need to make their team a winning team.

Now, since they exchange the picks, it means at least Ainge has been listen to the offer, maybe he never got good enough offer for what he has, but we seldom know the offers, so can not based on pure imagination to judge if this is good or bad.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#95 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:23 pm

It's a calculated risk and it's really dependent upon how Fultz plays IMO. Ainge was obviously underwhelmed by Fultz or this trade doesn't happen.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#96 » by RightToCensor » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:36 pm

I'd picture residents of Boston as more of drinkers than smokers
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#97 » by whysoserious » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:38 pm

Froob wrote:I hope he's right...allegedly he was taking KD over Oden back in the day. You only make this trade if you think the guy at 3 is as good or better than Fultz. Legacy defining trade. Nobody will care what he did with the big 3 if he ****s this up.



I don't tend to believe a lot of things when it comes to Ainge and his like for certain players in past drafts. You're closer to the Celtics situation so there may have been talk about KD over Oden at that particular draft. It just seems, similar to Colangelo, he talks and leaks a bunch of stuff years after drafts about his desire to pick the known superstar over the bust.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#98 » by matt6715 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:45 pm

Smart move if he fell in love with Tatum and didn't love Fultz but he better start either pushing those picks to the center of the table for some bonafide stars or this will all be a moot point. Still unclear whether they are building for next year or 2022.
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#99 » by BorkLazer » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:45 pm

Wilfried wrote:
robbie84 wrote:lol @ all those judging the situation 2 days after the trade was made.
Let's see what kind of roster Ainge puts out on opening night.
If he can add one of PG13/Butler and one of Hayward/Griffin and keep a few of those golden Brooklyn/LA/PHI picks AND keep Jaylen Brown, he's going to have the last laugh.

It's pretty unlikely that this trade for the #3 is the end game here. Ainge has always said he'd take proven talent over draftees unless it's a generational Durant/Duncan/Lebron talent.
He didn't see that in Fultz so he's probably going to try and get 2 guys who the 76ers hope Fultz will be as good as one day.

Patience people. Of course some morons will just crap on the Celtics and Ainge no matter what moves he makes. If you're one of those people, go back to your cave and stay miserable.
Dude knows what he's doing.


I also think he knows what he's doing, and he's doing a great job.

But normally, superstars aren't obtainable via trade. Mostly via Free Agency and draft.
So all these chips are very good, but he has now the problem to wait and draft and maybe become a real contender (which they aren't right now) in 5-8 years.
Or trade the picks for all-stars (not superstars) and hope it' enough to contend now.

But don't forget, if you want Butler AND Hayward, there will be other players (read: contracts) that has to go.
You can't have them both (Hayward will be around 24-25 million? Butler is around 18-19 million, you already have Horford at 27 million) and keep your core (Bradley or IT/Crowder/Olynyk) together



Please do not ever put Olynyk as part of our core. Those are borderline fighting words
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Re: What is Ainge smoking? 

Post#100 » by Froob » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:48 pm

whysoserious wrote:
Froob wrote:I hope he's right...allegedly he was taking KD over Oden back in the day. You only make this trade if you think the guy at 3 is as good or better than Fultz. Legacy defining trade. Nobody will care what he did with the big 3 if he ****s this up.



I don't tend to believe a lot of things when it comes to Ainge and his like for certain players in past drafts. You're closer to the Celtics situation so there may have been talk about KD over Oden at that particular draft. It just seems, similar to Colangelo, he talks and leaks a bunch of stuff years after drafts about his desire to pick the known superstar over the bust.

Yeah I dunno if I believe everything he says lol. Claimed he had Draymond a lot higher on his board. He was very obsessed with KD pre draft but I dunno if he actually takes him first.
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