In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF?

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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#21 » by Ballings7 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:30 pm

Shooting guard,

Players are generally smaller in one way or another, but not as small as PGs... 6'4"-ish-6'7"-ish, 190ish-215LBs-ish (+/-), and not as long overall... and are usually quicker due to the size makeup.

Prototypical shooting guards today are: Evan Fournier, Klay Thompson, Victor Oladipo, James Harden (really just a wing-player because he can go to all three spots, usually PG/SG - but for this topic, to pick one position it's SG), Courtney Lee, JJ Redick, Waiters, Hield, Danny Green, Beal, Booker, W. Barton, etc.

This is based off their offensive style, size, and quickness.

For example, an outlier, is Andre Roberson... this guy was a PF in college but really has the physical make up of a prototypical SF, but due to his inability offensively he was put closer to the basket to minimize spacing issues as much as possible.

But overall size-wise, style of play and abilities on both ends - he is most definitely a wing-player -- but one who could also play the four when going small or for a certain matchup. Has been an SG by necessity because of Durant and now George, and because of his versatile defensive ability... can guard from 1-4, and perimeter-based 5s, at least.

--------------

Small forward,

Players are generally mid-sized and at least as big as the biggest SGs... so like, 6'6"-ish to 6'10", and 215ish-240-ish LBs (-/+)... but quickness and ability to shoot dictates if you can play SF consistently or not, or less often in most matchups from game-to-game, or just not at all.

There are several examples of prototypical SFs in the league, if had to pick one position for them, based off size, quickness, and ability to shoot (and ideally handle the ball solidly): Jason Tatum, Paul George, Kevin Durant, Draymond Green, Kawhi Leonard, Trevor Ariza, Mo Harkless, Al-Farooq Aminu, Harrison Barnes, W. Chandler, Rudy Gay (though he's become more of a four most recently; over his career), Wiggins, Solomon Hill, Mbah 'a Moute, Ingles, etc.

Most of these guys and others not listed, can play the four effectively at least as well and consistently if needed, and a few even the five (Harrison Barnes before Dallas, played the four a lot and out of the post with GS). But tradtionally going by history and for the intent of setting them at a positional slot, they are all indeed small forwards.

Patrick Patterson, for example, is 6'8"/6'9" 230, but just doesnt' have the overall perimeter skills to really play the three, on a decent basis or more. He is a stretch big, who plays the four, and could play the five in going small if desired. If he was as quick as Draymond Green or Aminu, he could definitely play the three.

Lamar Odom is a unique case like Draymond Green and Durant, where he could play from three to five competently through out his whole career. Though primarily became a four in his prime years due to adding some more muscle as he was never a floor-stretcher, by design, but could knock down jumpers from mid-range and out from game to game, but not one of his "strengths" either.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#22 » by LuDux1 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:36 pm

I remember few years ago someone divided players statistically into i think 9 "positions". That someone should redo it
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#23 » by Ballings7 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:40 pm

TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:Literally no difference. Only difference is for idiots who take things too much into technicalities.


Analytics stats all the new-age people adore mean nothing, and Ron Artest should of played SG primarily until he came to the Lakers, and LeBron, and Paul Pierce, and Scottie Pippen, and Shane Battier, and Luol Deng, and Tayshaun Prince, and Otto Porter, and Carmelo, and Nicolas Batum, and Quentin Richardon, and Peja Stojakovic., and Richard Jefferson, and Wilson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza, and James Posey, and Rudy Gay, and Kevin Durant... all really could of played and would play SG just as well as SF.

And vice versa for anyone who played SG primarily, they really could of played SF from night to night, just as well as they actually did at SG.

But I'm an idiot and so were all the coaches of those players judging their lineups to matching up with other teams.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#24 » by TheWolfoftheNBA » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:25 pm

Ballings7 wrote:
TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:Literally no difference. Only difference is for idiots who take things too much into technicalities.


Analytics stats all the new-age people adore mean nothing, and Ron Artest should of played SG primarily until he came to the Lakers, and LeBron, and Paul Pierce, and Scottie Pippen, and Shane Battier, and Luol Deng, and Tayshaun Prince, and Otto Porter, and Carmelo, and Nicolas Batum, and Quentin Richardon, and Peja Stojakovic., and Richard Jefferson, and Wilson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza, and James Posey, and Rudy Gay, and Kevin Durant... all really could of played and would play SG just as well as SF.

And vice versa for anyone who played SG primarily, they really could of played SF from night to night, just as well as they actually did at SG.

But I'm an idiot and so were all the coaches of those players judging their lineups to matching up with other teams.


Yeah you are. They're interchangeable. Deal with it.

Coaches put players in positions that are the norm or preferred by their stars. Thinking otherwise proves my point.

Everyone you've mentioned has played the 2 and 3, and in some cases the 4. Get it?
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#25 » by Luigi » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:39 pm

TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:
Ballings7 wrote:
TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:Literally no difference. Only difference is for idiots who take things too much into technicalities.


Analytics stats all the new-age people adore mean nothing, and Ron Artest should of played SG primarily until he came to the Lakers, and LeBron, and Paul Pierce, and Scottie Pippen, and Shane Battier, and Luol Deng, and Tayshaun Prince, and Otto Porter, and Carmelo, and Nicolas Batum, and Quentin Richardon, and Peja Stojakovic., and Richard Jefferson, and Wilson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza, and James Posey, and Rudy Gay, and Kevin Durant... all really could of played and would play SG just as well as SF.

And vice versa for anyone who played SG primarily, they really could of played SF from night to night, just as well as they actually did at SG.

But I'm an idiot and so were all the coaches of those players judging their lineups to matching up with other teams.


Yeah you are. They're interchangeable. Deal with it.

Coaches put players in positions that are the norm or preferred by their stars. Thinking otherwise proves my point.

Everyone you've mentioned has played the 2 and 3, and in some cases the 4. Get it?


There is no difference between 1s and 2s. There is no difference between 2s and 3s. There is no difference between 3s and 4s. There is no difference between 4s and 5s. There is no difference between 1s and 5s. This is why Gary Payton was highly recruited to slow down Shaq when diesel was in his prime. Nobody else could guard him, but the Glove could.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#26 » by whocurrz » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:16 am

Well I feel more undersized SGs or two ball handler lineups are being utilized. But in general teams like to use two wings with a bit different skill set. One who is more oddball and can hit outside shots and one who can do some secondary creating. PF or a third wing is being incorporated more and more for spacing and switching purposes
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#27 » by SanDavid » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:18 am

Luigi wrote:
TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:
Ballings7 wrote:
Analytics stats all the new-age people adore mean nothing, and Ron Artest should of played SG primarily until he came to the Lakers, and LeBron, and Paul Pierce, and Scottie Pippen, and Shane Battier, and Luol Deng, and Tayshaun Prince, and Otto Porter, and Carmelo, and Nicolas Batum, and Quentin Richardon, and Peja Stojakovic., and Richard Jefferson, and Wilson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza, and James Posey, and Rudy Gay, and Kevin Durant... all really could of played and would play SG just as well as SF.

And vice versa for anyone who played SG primarily, they really could of played SF from night to night, just as well as they actually did at SG.

But I'm an idiot and so were all the coaches of those players judging their lineups to matching up with other teams.


Yeah you are. They're interchangeable. Deal with it.

Coaches put players in positions that are the norm or preferred by their stars. Thinking otherwise proves my point.

Everyone you've mentioned has played the 2 and 3, and in some cases the 4. Get it?


There is no difference between 1s and 2s. There is no difference between 2s and 3s. There is no difference between 3s and 4s. There is no difference between 4s and 5s. There is no difference between 1s and 5s. This is why Gary Payton was highly recruited to slow down Shaq when diesel was in his prime. Nobody else could guard him, but the Glove could.


No worries, Anthony Davis can be d'ed up by Jimmy Butler quite easily.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#28 » by TheWolfoftheNBA » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:22 am

Luigi wrote:
TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:
Ballings7 wrote:
Analytics stats all the new-age people adore mean nothing, and Ron Artest should of played SG primarily until he came to the Lakers, and LeBron, and Paul Pierce, and Scottie Pippen, and Shane Battier, and Luol Deng, and Tayshaun Prince, and Otto Porter, and Carmelo, and Nicolas Batum, and Quentin Richardon, and Peja Stojakovic., and Richard Jefferson, and Wilson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza, and James Posey, and Rudy Gay, and Kevin Durant... all really could of played and would play SG just as well as SF.

And vice versa for anyone who played SG primarily, they really could of played SF from night to night, just as well as they actually did at SG.

But I'm an idiot and so were all the coaches of those players judging their lineups to matching up with other teams.


Yeah you are. They're interchangeable. Deal with it.

Coaches put players in positions that are the norm or preferred by their stars. Thinking otherwise proves my point.

Everyone you've mentioned has played the 2 and 3, and in some cases the 4. Get it?


There is no difference between 1s and 2s. There is no difference between 2s and 3s. There is no difference between 3s and 4s. There is no difference between 4s and 5s. There is no difference between 1s and 5s. This is why Gary Payton was highly recruited to slow down Shaq when diesel was in his prime. Nobody else could guard him, but the Glove could.


Woah.

My post and the logic went right over your head lol.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#29 » by Luigi » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:46 am

TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:
Luigi wrote:
TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:
Yeah you are. They're interchangeable. Deal with it.

Coaches put players in positions that are the norm or preferred by their stars. Thinking otherwise proves my point.

Everyone you've mentioned has played the 2 and 3, and in some cases the 4. Get it?


There is no difference between 1s and 2s. There is no difference between 2s and 3s. There is no difference between 3s and 4s. There is no difference between 4s and 5s. There is no difference between 1s and 5s. This is why Gary Payton was highly recruited to slow down Shaq when diesel was in his prime. Nobody else could guard him, but the Glove could.


Woah.

My post and the logic went right over your head lol.


Is interchangeable not a transitive relation?
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#30 » by InsanityKills » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:03 am

The "G" and the "F".
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#31 » by OptionZero » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:14 am

Wish we had evolved beyond strict PG/SG/SF/PF/C definitions

In practice, the role is more important than the name of your position

In the spread pick and roll that teams run alot, you have "primary ball handler" that initiates the pick and roll, "big" that sets screens and rim runs, and the other three are just "wings" who space the floor. The height of each guy doesn't really matter, except your rim runner probably shouldn't be a six foot dude.

but

if you run your offense out of the high post, then the "big" is really the guy getting the ball first and making decisions about where to pass/hand it off, so . . . isn't he in a sense the PG?

And if your offense has multiple layers like high level teams, where it can start as a pick and roll and then flow into a high post attack and then flow into a secondary pick and roll

who cares what you're called, i'm just rambling
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#32 » by watch1958 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:34 am

SFs need to be able to play some PF
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#33 » by baldur » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:21 am

i was taught sg's better have some playmaking and ball-handling abilities where necessary and in order to ease pg's burden, as well. also they tend to score more than sf's.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#34 » by Nazrmohamed » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:13 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:Yeah, generally it's size for defensive purposes. Star SFs are usually guards on offense. Thabo Sefolosha was not a guard on offense for the Thunder, Danny Green is not a guard on offense for the Spurs, etc.


Sorry to turn this into a Melo thing but to me THIS is the real reason Melo isn't liked, or people feel the game has passed him by.
Critics feel its all about decisions. If Melo changed his game to X then he would be better off. If Melo decided to do X then hed be better off.

Now whats true is that Melo is indifferent on defense but he wouldn't be the only star player weak on defense and there are quite a few who are liked. Whats true is he does isolate but when you compare him to other number one options there are plenty of well liked players who isolate even more. I watch Harden isolate non stop. Lebron isolates all the time. Paul George and Jimmie Butler isolate more than Melo and take just as many midrange shots. So what's everyone's problem with Melo? I know the answer that people never really attribute. Its HOW he isolates, its HOW he initiates his move.

POST UP FROM A NON BIG MAN POSITION

Thats a death sentence in today's nba. And that's what its really all about. Ever since Scotty Pippen dominated this league the position has been evolving more and more into one where star SF needed to be point forwards and act more as a guard than a forward. And Melo is simply incapable. Hes always played more as a exceptionally quick PF. Hes in the same mold as a Larry Johnson, Glenn Rice. Definitely guys who can dominate but he isn't doing it with his dribble, its all gonna happen within a 3 ft box. Now if Melo was a dribble drive isolator like Lebron is, I bet nobody would even say he isolates even if he did it more often. Why cause its not isolation purely that people hate, they hate SFs who post up.

Its even starting to become wierd to see PFs who post up. Evidenced by the LMA thread. But Im not trying to go all in on the rest of the stuff with Melo, Im just showing how his skillset makes it hard for him to be enjoyed in today's nba without a position change to PF. Doesnt help that hes older and slower either. But I just feel like in the early 2000, 90s and 80s his game...AT SF.....wouldve been more desired.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#35 » by Alonzo_Morning » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:11 pm

Tiesto_Lakers wrote:PG's can play SG.

They can't play SF.


Unless your name is Tyreke :banghead:
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#36 » by RyderMike » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:33 pm

Tiesto_Lakers wrote:PG's can play SG.

They can't play SF.

Tell that to Dwane casey. He played 3 point guard lineups last year with Lowry, Cory Joseph, and Delon Wright all on the floor at the same time, making Delon play SF when he's a pass first PG
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#37 » by Patsfan1081 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:32 pm

It could be different among teams. Boston doesn't have one traditional shooting guard with Bradley now gone, they just have three ball handlers and the rest wings then bigs. So most likely guys like Hayward, Brown, Tatum, Crowder, ect...will play positionless basketball. I guess you could say that it means something on defense but it's just about matchups there also. At least with Boston they have players like Brown that are big enough to guard the threes yet are also athletic/quick enough to guard twos also. I don't know how other teams are constructed but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more teams start to adapt more to that style of play, especially with how big men space the floor so much better now. Playing three small forwards/wings most likely will be a common occurance.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#38 » by Patsfan1081 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:39 pm

RyderMike wrote:
Tiesto_Lakers wrote:PG's can play SG.

They can't play SF.

Tell that to Dwane casey. He played 3 point guard lineups last year with Lowry, Cory Joseph, and Delon Wright all on the floor at the same time, making Delon play SF when he's a pass first PG


In Boston Smart played three positions also, and could guard against three positions also. A lot of teams are rolling out lineups without traditional point guards, Giannis, Simmons, Harden, etc.. might not be able to guard some opposing ones but they can guard twos, threes, and even some fours.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#39 » by RyderMike » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:07 pm

Patsfan1081 wrote:
RyderMike wrote:
Tiesto_Lakers wrote:PG's can play SG.

They can't play SF.

Tell that to Dwane casey. He played 3 point guard lineups last year with Lowry, Cory Joseph, and Delon Wright all on the floor at the same time, making Delon play SF when he's a pass first PG


In Boston Smart played three positions also, and could guard against three positions also. A lot of teams are rolling out lineups without traditional point guards, Giannis, Simmons, Harden, etc.. might not be able to guard some opposing ones but they can guard twos, threes, and even some fours.


That's different in the sense that the players you named are multi-position players. You're talking about using players who aren't point guards as point guards because they have the passing and vision skills. Casey did the exact opposite, put three traditional point guards on the floor, when they don't really possess the skills to play those other positions.
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Re: In today's NBA what is the difference between a SG and a SF? 

Post#40 » by Ballings7 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:54 pm

TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:
Ballings7 wrote:
TheWolfoftheNBA wrote:Literally no difference. Only difference is for idiots who take things too much into technicalities.


Analytics stats all the new-age people adore mean nothing, and Ron Artest should of played SG primarily until he came to the Lakers, and LeBron, and Paul Pierce, and Scottie Pippen, and Shane Battier, and Luol Deng, and Tayshaun Prince, and Otto Porter, and Carmelo, and Nicolas Batum, and Quentin Richardon, and Peja Stojakovic., and Richard Jefferson, and Wilson Chandler, and Trevor Ariza, and James Posey, and Rudy Gay, and Kevin Durant... all really could of played and would play SG just as well as SF.

And vice versa for anyone who played SG primarily, they really could of played SF from night to night, just as well as they actually did at SG.

But I'm an idiot and so were all the coaches of those players judging their lineups to matching up with other teams.


Yeah you are. They're interchangeable. Deal with it.

Coaches put players in positions that are the norm or preferred by their stars. Thinking otherwise proves my point.

Everyone you've mentioned has played the 2 and 3, and in some cases the 4. Get it?



No, I am not. And, I won't deal with it, because you're just flat out wrong and ignorant.

Yeah, sure, those players have played both positions, not denying that; but they were not defined by playing the position they played less than the one they played the most (SF or SG).

No, I won't be getting something that conflicts heavily against reality and proven in history. There is nothing to get when it's already been established as the truth. Too bad.

But, hey, remain being delusional to reality and history, squirt.

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