Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot

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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#41 » by vxmike » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:05 pm

G35 wrote:
Kevin Johnson wrote:I was shocked when I saw Pop yell frantically at Pau Gasol for not running a play right in the playoffs. He continued yelling at him after time out with Gasol timidly apologizing.

I can understand why NBA veterans would not put up with that and not surprised that Aldridge tired of that really quick. Remember, Rodman said Pops has a big ego and thinks he's god.

People love to put Pop on a pedestal but every coach has their flaws. Even Phil Jackson's rep has taken a big hit lately and Riley is not revered as he once was.



And people think that if Kevin Garnett switched places with Tim Duncan they would have done the same. Not in a million years, Pop has his own particular way of doing things and he was lucky to have Duncan who took it. KG would not take that. Shaq wouldn't take it, Lebron, Kobe, Jordan wouldn't take what Pop dishes out.

I can see why Pop does it to promote a certain culture and way of doing things but superstar players are not hearing that anymore. Players have more power now and getting more everyday. They see how Lebron is running his team and they are going to want to do the same thing or they will leave......


That's why Phil is a better top end coach for winning championships. Pop is a better coach for consistently winning with average players and he's better at player development.

Phil controlled his stars that weren't always easy to control like MJ, SHAQ, Kobe, Rodman...
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#42 » by Mass Rig » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:15 pm

Most American players can't be coached. They think they know better than an entire set of coaches that have been studying basketball for over 30 years. It's actually quite funny!
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#43 » by spacemonkey » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:33 pm

MartinToVaught wrote:I'd ask why Horry's so salty, but the answer is pretty obvious. Being a hater gets you TV time and attention when you're a former player. Sad, but true.


Yeah, Horry is definitely a mercenary, but to be honest, I don't really see any fault in that. Man knows how to get his name into the headlines, from the insane savagery he inflicted upon Tracy McGrady to casually implying Timmy Duncan didn't have a good work ethic.
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#44 » by thinkingwarriors » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:45 pm

Stars that play the right way don't have to "dumb down their game". Roleplayers like Horry and Finley(at that point in his career) do because they aren't good enough to utilize the entirety of their repertoire on a team looking to win championships. I'm sure Finley could have gone and continued to do all the ball dominating, ISO post up, mid range stuff he had done with the Mavs for a decade on a bad team but they would have remained bad. But what is Horry complaining about? He is a career roleplayer. Is he saying he had an entire repertoire of moves he never got to use because of Pop? Because of Rudy T and PJax too apparently because he never did anything much different on any of those teams.
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#45 » by Dominater » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:47 pm

Knrstz wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Popovich can always be questioned until he wins a championship without Tim Duncan.


I agree. Some people will never satisfy critics. Popovich proved he was a fraud this year. Getting to the WCF after losing Duncan, controlling game 1 against the warriors without your starting pg until Kawhi got hurt against the Warriors...the game has clearly passed him by. Just like spurs players are only system players, pops is a system coach. Never mind that he implemented the system, the point remains- if popovich didn't build a successful winning culture at the spurs then he wouldn't be a successful winning coach. He is nothing more than a product of himself.

I'm guessing he also didn't watch 2014 when the Spurs had their most impressive run of them all with Duncan hanging by a thread at that point
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#46 » by Ballings7 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:50 pm

McDyess was a pure role-player at that point in his career, and was a bit better in that role because he was a bit younger, with Detroit.

And this was well after his career-changing surgery. McDyess was a ring-chasing veteran like D. West, Horry, Dampier, Rasheed, N. Mohammed, Posey, etc. He did not care that much about touches and getting numbers... those days were long gone once he started playing with Detroit. McDyess was actually really good for SA on both ends of the floor, it just came in the worst years of Duncan-era, and in transition as Duncan had to change his game and body, injuries to Manu/Tony happened in '09-'11, and Splitter/Leonard/Green were not in the fold or established yet. If it was two years before or McDyess was younger and it was 2012/2013 +, then his play would of been more impactful on the team.

Bad, non-example. Never close to a star.

Finley, was at the end of his prime, and wanted to win with a good chance for a ring, after losing out to the Spurs and Kings for years.. ring-chasing veteran status began and ended with the Spurs. He knew what he was getting into, especially with Manu, Tony, and eventually Brent Barry (who was a good playmaker so would get the ball when he came in), aside from Duncan. Finley was a great role-player for the Spurs who hit many big shots, and was clutch as hell.

Bad, non-example. Never close to a star.

Jefferson turned out to be a mediocre fit, over the long-haul, he was a cutter, spot-up shooter, and fast-break guy... other players could of filled this better than Jefferson (Ariza, Dorell Wright, etc.). He was always going to be a 3.5/4th option with Tim/Tony/Manu around. Also didn't help that Bruce Bowen was done when he came in, so he was forced to be the main wing defender.

And, again this came during the worst years, which were tranistion years in the Duncan-era. Still "good" generally for any team, but the most flawed Spurs teams overall of the Duncan-era, and injuries bit them pretty good from '09'-'11.

Good example. Was still playing at an all-star level before he came to the Spurs.
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#47 » by LeMasta » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:52 pm

LMA was given opportunities. He didn't convert on them and let the team down watching the series against the Warriors. Blaming the Spurs and Pop and not yourself for that seems pretty pathetic in my point of view
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#48 » by spacemonkey » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:54 pm

LeMasta wrote:LMA was given opportunities. He didn't convert on them and let the team down watching the series against the Warriors. Blaming the Spurs and Pop and not yourself for that seems pretty pathetic in my point of view


Agreed. I mean, this season especially a strategy was to get LMA going by force feeding him early. Dude just choked when it mattered. I also think LMA might be a little out of shape, he's looking a lot chunkier these days.

I mean for most of season the offense was "Give the ball to LMA or Kawhi".
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#50 » by Agenda42 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:59 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:Pop forces you to play the right way, but at the same time it suffocates a player's creativity on the basketball floor. That's why Duncan and Leonard are perfect players for Pop. They are literal robots on the basketball court.


Dunno man. Manu Ginobili is among the most creative basketball players ever. He seems to get along fine there.
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#51 » by spacemonkey » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:59 pm

DaKnicksAreBack wrote:What does it even mean to dumb down your game?

Most likely min-maxing.

Dwight Howard famously refused to min-max to his strengths with the best PNR ball handler in the league.
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#52 » by spacemonkey » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:01 pm

Agenda42 wrote:
Shock Defeat wrote:Pop forces you to play the right way, but at the same time it suffocates a player's creativity on the basketball floor. That's why Duncan and Leonard are perfect players for Pop. They are literal robots on the basketball court.


Dunno man. Manu Ginobili is among the most creative basketball players ever. He seems to get along fine there.


On top of that, there is this laughable idea that most good coaches in the NBA aren't trying to promote the best parts of their players' games, hide the worst parts, all while playing the percentages. Like it's just Pop playing the odds to his players' 'detriment'.

If Pop had Kyrie, you can bet he'd let Kyrie go to work...
oh... just like how he lets Leonard go to work.

Because Leonard is actually a fantastic iso player now, and shock horror, that was like the bulk of the Spurs offense this past season.
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#53 » by Cycloneon » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:03 pm

LeMasta wrote:LMA was given opportunities. He didn't convert on them and let the team down watching the series against the Warriors. Blaming the Spurs and Pop and not yourself for that seems pretty pathetic in my point of view


Exactly lol. Aldridge had the greatest opportunity in the world in game 6 of the WCSF, and games 2, 3, and 4 of the WCF to show the world that he is still one of the best power forwards in basketball. But he deferred to a 39 year old Manu Ginobili and 2 year man Jonathon Simmons :crazy:
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#54 » by Genjuro » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:03 pm

Horry's words are very interesting and he's entitled to have an opinion, especially because he's been there. Pop's way of coaching has proved to be successful, but it also has a cost. Players need to adjust to the system and it takes a toll on their individual production if they come as stars.

However, the biggest exception IMO is Manu Ginobili. Indeed I think Jefferson is mistaken in his podcast when he doesn't label him as an establish star coming into the Spurs. He clearly was even without any NBA experience, and he was the one able to have his way with his game style, fighting hard with the coach to earn the right. It wasn't easy at all, as we all know. I don't think anybody else has challenged Pop nearly as much.

Still, in some way Pop has proved to be very flexible changing the playing style to better fit the personnel, the team's go-to players. But that doesn't extend to incoming secondary options.
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#55 » by tomacorandom » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:04 pm

Woodsanity wrote:Horry you aren't a star.


Better player than the knicks have had in 20 years
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#56 » by azcatz11 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:06 pm

tomacorandom wrote:
Woodsanity wrote:Horry you aren't a star.


Better player than the knicks have had in 20 years


Stop trolling :roll:
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#57 » by spacemonkey » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:06 pm

Genjuro wrote:Still, in some way Pop has proved to be very flexible changing the playing style to better fit the personnel, the team's go-to players. But that doesn't extend to incoming secondary options.


And, really, this is a fantastic point and the way it should be. Why should Pop change up his strategy to let a role player stroke his own basketball ego? It's team-first.

But with that said I don't really believe Horry wasn't a team-first player. By all accounts from his teammates, especially on the Rockets, he was a team-first player.

I think he's doing this just to make waves. He's probably rehearsing another sick burn on TMac should they ever meet on air again.
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#58 » by tomacorandom » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:10 pm

azcatz11 wrote:
tomacorandom wrote:
Woodsanity wrote:Horry you aren't a star.


Better player than the knicks have had in 20 years


Stop trolling :roll:


You wish I were trolling :roll:
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#59 » by TheWolfoftheNBA » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:16 pm

You know Horry is right. Stars have a difficult time conforming to Pop's ways. Look at LaMarcus, look at when stars relative to their career join them usually.

Don't forget too, Duncan was seconds away from leaving. Pop's not easy to work with at all.
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Re: Horry:"Stars Have to Dumb Down Their Game With The Spurs", Blames Pop for Fisher's '.4' shot 

Post#60 » by Ballings7 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:24 pm

Horry is right in that most stars do have to dumb down their games, and like Popovich says "One has to be over themself to fit in here". But, that doesn't mean they can't be a major piece to the team, especially recently as wing-talent has shrunk in SA to just Leonard really.

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