Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together?

Moderators: BombsquadSammy, Yuri Vaultin, Tarik Black, Mr. E, bwgood77, Rhettmatic, Duke4life831, KF10, GimmeDat, Knickstape1214, DayofMourning, Capn'O, Dirk, CoreyGallagher, magnumt, ken6199

shanghaifanzi
Junior
Posts: 473
And1: 676
Joined: Mar 26, 2016
 

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#21 » by shanghaifanzi » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:21 am

wait until CP3 had enough of Harden laziness on D, he will scream the hell out of him
User avatar
Young_Star11
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 21,185
And1: 935
Joined: Oct 28, 2005
Location: RealGM
   

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#22 » by Young_Star11 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:31 am

shanghaifanzi wrote:wait until CP3 had enough of Harden laziness on D, he will scream the hell out of him


Here is where CP3 and also Tucker will hold Harden accountable.

Have to also remember Harden has had to generate Houston at the offensive end of the floor - these responsibilities can now be shared.
NaturalBuns
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,805
And1: 1,226
Joined: Jul 20, 2012
     

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#23 » by NaturalBuns » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:37 am

bwgood77 wrote:I think they could be, but I also think it won't work as well as people might think. You KNOW they both want the ball in their hands and making all the decisions all the time. Paul SHOULD win out if there is a choice, but Harden is the incumbent. I can also see it working out badly. And honestly, if they get Melo, I think it makes it worse...with either of these guys you want catch and shoot guys around them, but with BOTH?...to add iso Melo? It makes zero sense to me...I think Anderson just fits better.


Disagree, come playoffs you need options.
Adding melo would be big in case the other two having a bad night. Also forces more of 1 on 1 scenarios less pressure less doubles. Would be more worried about the defense but they seem to be signing good defenders knowing this.

Houston will be very dangerous if they land melo.
In terms of system fit sure Anderson fits the tap but come meaning ful games you need the star power.
oldscho0led wrote:Baseball is all about momentum. Pirates will carry their winning ways and beat Giants in the Wildcard.

A's over Royals. Lester and experience will prove that he's worth the trade.

Tigers winning it all. Tigers are, imo, peaking at the right time.
JGOJustin
Sophomore
Posts: 124
And1: 89
Joined: Feb 04, 2015
 

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#24 » by JGOJustin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:02 am

Young_Star11 wrote:They've both been saying the right things so far.

Great players would make it work.

CP3 almost beat the Jazz (a very respectable 51-win team) by himself.


Don't remind me.

I still think a healthy Clipper team was better than the Jazz this past season.
Rednation91
Freshman
Posts: 77
And1: 51
Joined: Jul 05, 2016
     

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#25 » by Rednation91 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:13 am

Young_Star11 wrote:
shanghaifanzi wrote:wait until CP3 had enough of Harden laziness on D, he will scream the hell out of him


Here is where CP3 and also Tucker will hold Harden accountable.

Have to also remember Harden has had to generate Houston at the offensive end of the floor - these responsibilities can now be shared.

Exactly. Lots of people gave russ a pass this yr for his defense cus he was carrying the offense by himself. Harden has had to do that for the past 5 yrs. While also playing the most minutes in the league the past 3 yrs (a couple of games worth more minutes)
Patches Perry
Starter
Posts: 2,467
And1: 3,077
Joined: May 11, 2016

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#26 » by Patches Perry » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:15 am

It's not that it won't work but rather there is an overlap in ability, so both players will not be used to their full capacity. When you put 2 top 8 players on the court together, you'd like to cover as much ground as possible. This means ideally you'd get a great defensive player who plays well off the ball, and a great ball handler who scores and distributes. Some combination like that. That way, they're both still being used to full capacity. You'd see the Rockets become a lot more of a threat if they had added Anthony Davis, rather than Chris Paul for example. Both top 10 players, but Davis fills more gaps for the Rockets than Paul does. Paul adds things that the Rockets already had an abundance of.

I'm also not sold on either of them being effective off the ball. Neither are truly elite shooters (like Curry or Klay) and so they won't pull defenses with their movement, and neither are above-the-rim guys so it's not like you can work them along the baseline for lobs and things of that nature. What are they going to do off the ball? Not much. They're both superb creators, crafty ball handlers and nifty passers. You can't do any of that without the ball in your hands.

I don't think they're worse for it, but I think the gain is minimal considering the overlap.
benef
Freshman
Posts: 67
And1: 20
Joined: Dec 26, 2016
   

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#27 » by benef » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:22 am

I cannot WAIT for Harden, Paul, Ariza, Mbah a Moute, Capela, Nene, Tucker, Gordon and Anderson to break the West this year. Especially if we can somehow offload Anderson for Melo along with Troy Williams or someone, even though Williams has looked great in summer league.
User avatar
MartinToVaught
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,447
And1: 9,211
Joined: Oct 19, 2014
     

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#28 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:08 pm

I'll believe CP3 is willing to cede control and share the playmaking duties with someone else when I see it. Until then, it's just empty platitudes.
Image
Curmudgeon
RealGM
Posts: 23,580
And1: 4,466
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#29 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:30 pm

I think they will constantly fight each other over the ball.
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
Shock Defeat
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,694
And1: 6,655
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
       

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#30 » by Shock Defeat » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:39 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
JGOJustin wrote:Too many times IMO people overthink things. Two players as great as Harden and Paul are, will figure it out. They'll make it worth. Both have the skillsets to be fluid in that regard. Will that result in a deep playoff run is another story though.

What I'm curious about, is that IF it ends up working out just "okay" or IF it indeed doesn't work out as well as they thought it would and it's a 1st or 2nd round exit, what does Houston do with Paul? I'm assuming they have a max deal lined up with Paul, but would they go through with it?


The thing is, when you have two ball dominant people, it's tougher. When Nash joined Kobe Nash basically became a spot up shooter (which actually was fine because he is a great shooter) but he didn't have the opportunity to run things himself...the was with D'Antoni too...I mean we are talking the same coach where they acquired Nash and Howard to join Gasol and Kobe. It didn't work very well.

I think they are set up fairly well though but I don't think it will be as easy as you think...it will be interesting to see who bring the ball up the court and directs the offense..they have to share it, but I honestly can't see either wanting to, especially Paul. I'm guessing Harden had to tell him it's his deal and will have the ball in his hands otherwise I can't imagine Paul wanting that unless he just wanted out of LA so bad he would be happy playing off ball.

Kobe is 3x more selfish than Harden and wouldn't give control up. That's the difference.
The_Hater
RealGM
Posts: 54,687
And1: 9,771
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#31 » by The_Hater » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:45 pm

I've read that CP's offensive numbers when he plays off the ball are elite. Among the best in the league. People just don't realize this because he generally has the ball in his hands. And Harden has been playing effectively both with and without the ball his entire career.

There's no doubt Moray was aware of this before making the deal.
I don't want to say we're dysfunctional. But we need to be more functional.
User avatar
raptor jesus
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,239
And1: 9,167
Joined: Feb 12, 2011
 

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#32 » by raptor jesus » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:46 pm

Young_Star11 wrote:
shanghaifanzi wrote:wait until CP3 had enough of Harden laziness on D, he will scream the hell out of him


Here is where CP3 and also Tucker will hold Harden accountable.

Have to also remember Harden has had to generate Houston at the offensive end of the floor - these responsibilities can now be shared.


Yes Tucker held Derozan in line pretty well last season. Had DD playing some of the best defence of his career.
Image
flintsky21
Freshman
Posts: 78
And1: 52
Joined: Oct 21, 2010

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#33 » by flintsky21 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 pm

Houston will have an elite playmaker on the floor at ALL times, which means Houston's offense is gonna be like a well-oiled machine for the entire game. I think it's gonna be great.
Nazrmohamed
Veteran
Posts: 2,784
And1: 1,097
Joined: May 16, 2013
     

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devasting together? 

Post#34 » by Nazrmohamed » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:00 pm

Shock Defeat wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
JGOJustin wrote:Too many times IMO people overthink things. Two players as great as Harden and Paul are, will figure it out. They'll make it worth. Both have the skillsets to be fluid in that regard. Will that result in a deep playoff run is another story though.

What I'm curious about, is that IF it ends up working out just "okay" or IF it indeed doesn't work out as well as they thought it would and it's a 1st or 2nd round exit, what does Houston do with Paul? I'm assuming they have a max deal lined up with Paul, but would they go through with it?


The thing is, when you have two ball dominant people, it's tougher. When Nash joined Kobe Nash basically became a spot up shooter (which actually was fine because he is a great shooter) but he didn't have the opportunity to run things himself...the was with D'Antoni too...I mean we are talking the same coach where they acquired Nash and Howard to join Gasol and Kobe. It didn't work very well.

I think they are set up fairly well though but I don't think it will be as easy as you think...it will be interesting to see who bring the ball up the court and directs the offense..they have to share it, but I honestly can't see either wanting to, especially Paul. I'm guessing Harden had to tell him it's his deal and will have the ball in his hands otherwise I can't imagine Paul wanting that unless he just wanted out of LA so bad he would be happy playing off ball.

Kobe is 3x more selfish than Harden and wouldn't give control up. That's the difference.


Also to Kobes defense, Nash wasnt the Nash we remembered at that point. Injuries had robbed him of all his speed.......but yeah, Kobe was way more ball dominant.

I think it'll work. I think people are worried alot about Paul the newcomer being now the primary ball handler. We'll I think Daantoni wouldn't be so excited if he felt it was a problem. While Harden was amazing at being the pg, he still operated as an elite scorer who could pass. I didn't even think hed have as much success as he did. Paul brings back more of that Steve Nash mentality, where I see him dribbling more in circles and dishing off not only to guys spread out but also finding cutters.

I hope Im explaining it right but Harden is more downhill. Such a scoring threat that defenses collapse and it opens things for shooters, not much different than he at SG except he just had the ball more often. Paul like Nash, can act more as a true facilitator who then scores as a last option.
paulbball
Senior
Posts: 605
And1: 310
Joined: Jun 30, 2016
   

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#35 » by paulbball » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:06 pm

Capela is going to get like 5 layups/lobs a game.
User avatar
bon
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,314
And1: 1,501
Joined: Jul 17, 2015
 

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#36 » by bon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:09 pm

Some people are acting like these two are Rondo-level shooters lol. They'll be just fine playing off each other..
User avatar
Joseph17
RealGM
Posts: 10,320
And1: 469
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Location: New York
   

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#37 » by Joseph17 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:11 pm

Harden definitely won't be as effective at SG, but Paul would put up better numbers than he did last year. I think the Rockets this year will actually be very similar to them last year. Now they have a true PG in Paul, but is that what they really needed? It was obvious to me that Harden is at his best when he was playing on the ball not off the ball. They don't need Melo either. It seems like they are just going after big names without taking into account how their chemistry will be with this "big 3." This class of free agents is pretty mediocre so there really wasn't that much that they could do. Signing big names for the sake of signing big names without taking chemistry into consideration is how the Knicks got to be in the position that they're in right now.
durden-tyler
Sophomore
Posts: 110
And1: 89
Joined: Jan 11, 2005
Location: France
   

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#38 » by durden-tyler » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:16 pm

Paul had a very capable playmaker with him in Blake but he still had the ball in the hand most of the time. Not saying that the pairing won't work, I think it will, that's what happens when you put 2 top ten players together, but devastating ? Not sure about that...
ajones9219
Pro Prospect
Posts: 888
And1: 693
Joined: Apr 15, 2015
     

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#39 » by ajones9219 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:38 pm

They'll probably figure it out. But I think paul is a weird fit with how the rockets gave built their offense. They have stressed that midrange shots are bad and only shoot inside or from 3. The midrange is exactly where paul does most of his work so I think it's going to be an adjustment of offensive strategy
InWestWeTrust
Pro Prospect
Posts: 958
And1: 165
Joined: Jun 19, 2012
     

Re: Anyone else think Chris Paul & James Harden will be devastating together? 

Post#40 » by InWestWeTrust » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:41 pm

Of course it'll take some time but they will be fantastic together.

Paul has never played with a player as good as Harden and vice versa. They'll make it work. Can't wait for the WCF this year. High possibility it goes to 7. (premature but the roster they have is SOLID on paper.

Only thing I have a hard time seeing is Paul playing off the ball. I could see him scoring off back cuts/back door. I think when they share the floor, Paul will still control most of the ball handling duties. We'll have to wait and see.
All I want for Christmas is #FullSquad

Return to The General Board