Re: Tyus Jones vs Bob Cousy
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:15 pm
I'm not a fan of arguments that rely on Ted Talk videos.
Sports is our Business
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https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2366285
70sFan wrote:I'm afraid it's a lost cause. Players from earlier eras can transcend bad eras but nobody before Kareem is worth even considering for today's league.
I wasted my time with him on this subject for too long.
One_and_Done wrote:I'm not a fan of arguments that rely on Ted Talk videos.
xdrta+ wrote:One_and_Done wrote:I'm not a fan of arguments that rely on Ted Talk videos.
Right, you rely on "dumb cavemen who invented the wheel" type of arguments.
tsherkin wrote:FarBeyondDriven wrote:except he wasn't.
But definitively, he was. Sure, you can look at other weak scorers at the point and say he was better than them, but that still doesn't say much when that was a below-league-average option all across the board. That was a tactical error on part of the coaches for continuing to run with that, but that doesn't change that Cousy wasn't a good volume scoring choice. It just means they hadn't recognized how to properly evaluate such at that time in the league... which was like 70 years ago. So, unsurprising.you're left with a guy leading the league in assists every season,
Irrelevant to my remark about scoring, and something which I did also address in my post.Poor efficiency for point guards was a product of the time for a variety of reasons and does not equate to him not being a good scorer. Just take the L
But there's no L, you're wrong. Your entire point of comparison is "other guys at his position were worse," which is true, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't a good scoring choice. They were just less effective scoring choices.
dhsilv2 wrote:One_and_Done wrote:maradro wrote:
You have no problem speculating the other way though.. if it's an even comparison they are at least playing on the same rules / sneakers / ball right? So why do you assume this Jones can do step back 3 pointers when he has never used those sneakers, ball, and the court doesn't even have a 3 pt line? If given time to acclimate he could probably still be good, even a star back then.. but straight in a game, with a ball and sneakers he's never used? Good chance he gets injured and can't even finish the game much less be a shooting god.
Your average just graduated astronomer, if teleported to 5000 years back to England they wouldn't be able to design Stonehenge (with all of its astrological alignments, proportions etc) much less build it, unless you sent them with a computer, gps, telescope, and so on.
That's exactly why (reasonable) people don't compare across eras and consider contextual impact
The barriers on Tyus are all easily overcome. Wow, adapting to new shoes. How will he manage. I also generally compare players operating at the highest level, which is a modern setting, not how will these guys play on ashpalt next to a volcano. But here it's irrelevant, as Jones would maybe be considered the GOAT in the 50s & 60s.
A modern scientist could definitely be taught and understand how to build stonehenge if teleported back. They may not have that specific knowledge, but it would easily be within their ability to learn. Cousy can't be teleported to our time and learn to play; he'll just be a water boy.
WTF? Cousy might not make the league as today he'd be undersized and his athletic ability even as the league transitioned into the 60's started to get tested. But he's sure as hell be able to adapt and learn to play the modern game. The game hasn't changed that much for crying out loud.
dygaction wrote:TheGOATRises007 wrote:dygaction wrote:
Absolutely not a ridiculous choice.
Who you got? 100 meter sprint Olympic champion 100 years ago or a scrub in 2020 Olympic semi finals?
Very harsh.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know the times in this example?
Easy to find:
Olympic Record 10.6 Donald Lippincott (USA) Stockholm (SWE) July 6, 1912
The last one in the past Olympic Semifinal out of 24 players was 10.3; First person to ever run within 10sec was in 1968, but in last Olympic all qualified runners in the finals were within 10sec.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_100_metres
One_and_Done wrote:dhsilv2 wrote:One_and_Done wrote:The barriers on Tyus are all easily overcome. Wow, adapting to new shoes. How will he manage. I also generally compare players operating at the highest level, which is a modern setting, not how will these guys play on ashpalt next to a volcano. But here it's irrelevant, as Jones would maybe be considered the GOAT in the 50s & 60s.
A modern scientist could definitely be taught and understand how to build stonehenge if teleported back. They may not have that specific knowledge, but it would easily be within their ability to learn. Cousy can't be teleported to our time and learn to play; he'll just be a water boy.
WTF? Cousy might not make the league as today he'd be undersized and his athletic ability even as the league transitioned into the 60's started to get tested. But he's sure as hell be able to adapt and learn to play the modern game. The game hasn't changed that much for crying out loud.
I mean he could learn it, a common fan can learn that, but it won't result in him making the league is the point.
ellobo wrote:...
Bob Beamon still holds the Olympic long jump record, set 56 years ago in 1968, and it's still the second longest jump in history. Mike Powell's world record is 33 years old, and 9 of the top 10 jumps in history are at least 30 years old (one jump tied for 10th all time is "only" 15 years old).
Obviously, when it comes to jumping, human evolution has regressed. With today's equipment and training methods, Bob Beamon, Mike Powell, and Carl Lewis would be lucky to jump 26 feet .
....
One_and_Done wrote:An aberration is not a trend, and it's exceptions that prove the rule. I think Flo Jo from the 80s still has some records too, but we all know why they mean nothing.
hauntedcomputer wrote:All I know is if they were suiting up tonight I'd a million times rather watch Cousy than Tyus Jones.