Orlando - better, worse, or the same?

[Monterey]

On Paper: Better
Chemistry: Undecided
Potential: Undecided
Success: Undecided

---

There, now leave this alone, wait for them to play one freaking game and then maybe you guys can have your fits about it again. And Kosar, you're an idiot, you don't listen to what anyone on this thread is replying to your posts and just come back with the same BS.

I agree with everything in bold and underlined.

I understand you might be irritated with how much Magic fans are posting and posting, but the thing is, when you have people here who cannot read replies and comprehend anything and instead just say the same things again and again (even if disproved already), things are bound to get redundant. The story of this thread is basically:

Step : Hater or Ignorant tool (often times he is both) says something ridiculous like Courtney will be better than Vince, Hedo is better than Vince, Hedo cannot be replaced, Hedo was the best player in the Playoffs, Vince is not clutch, all he can do is score, and many such ludicrous things.

Step 2: Sane individual (doesn't have to even be a Magic fan lol) comes out and dismisses these ridiculous statements and proceeds to provide factual evidence as to why that is the case. In the process the ignorant tools are bashed for it, which is not a surprise.

Step 3: The hater do one of two things. He will either provide no valid counter-argument and just fade into temporary obscurity, or come out calling the Magic fan a homer.

Step 4: Hater will then resurface after his (Please Use More Appropriate Word) statements and the arguments that thrashed his statements have faded by a few pages (ala Kosar, Manny Phail, and Cat). He will then simply restate these ignorant things and the process begins all over again.

Its pretty stupid to acknowledge a hater when it's obvious that their main goal is to bait you guys. Get over them and this thread, in my opinion.

[Hilltop]

"orlando run a complex but simple offense.."

ya, i get it, thats a great argument for why vince carter wont be able to succeed..that pick and roll..its so revolutionary and unheard of, of a strategy.

blogs are lowering peoples iq's...

You summed it up right there man

[Blue_and_Whte]

@rjgraca

oh wow, so you're calling your writer from nesn.com credible? and now this bleacherreport article is also credible? you discredit other articles, but then you post articles that are even more unreliable than the articles and stats posted here. talk about hypocrisy

i know some some espn articles/writers are unreliable. after all, all of them picked the cavs to win over the magic in the playoffs.

let's see. this is very basic. both of your "credible" articles call vince carter injury-prone. in the past 5 seasons, carter has missed an average of 3.2 games per season. i didn't twist any stats to get that one. i simply added the total number of games he missed for the past 5 seasons (16) and divided it by 5 (the number of seasons). so are you telling me that the average number of games VC has missed the past 5 seasons is irrelevant to the discussion on whether or not he is injury-prone?

now you post a new article from hoopsvibe saying the magic shouldnt have matched the offer for gortat. so the article is saying that because they matched the offer for gortat, the magic has taken a step back. do you realize how stupid that sounds? if they didn't match, dwight would have been the only center in the lineup and gortat would have walked off with nothing in return. so now because they match, dwight would have a backup center and because of that, they take a step back?

wow. keep the ridiculous articles coming

dwighty, Summing up your contributions to this thread so far are your sigs of.



Let me see...ESPN is credible when it boosts Orlando hyperbole which then again is all that you post anyways. The ESPN writer's picked the Laker's to beat the Celtics too...so that makes your source as ESPN credible??? .

Your getting a little better with your posts now in examining the number of games that he missed the last 3 seasons and using it as a stat....straight forward which is good---but not predictor of future health or even productivity given VC's age since no one escapes the decline of age.

Yes, matching Gortat was opening a can of worms that the Magic didn't need to do. The CAVs matched Varejao after their 2007 finals appearance and that was a disaster. I was really expecting Orlando to do a sign and trade to a team like Houston and I think the Magic just attached a boat anchor contract to themselves much like the Memphis Grizzlies did when they signed Brian Cardinal. I think that it's a little arrogant on your part to question me on how stupid it sounds when you are glossing over a lot of negative variables here with Gortat in your quest to show your self as the leader of the Orlando homer parade .

Wow, I guess you will keep the silly arrogant reason's coming why Orlando is not spending it's money wisely. The Knicks signed big names too with Isiah Thomas without regard to fit or chemistry and that worked out good for them too...NOT.

It's hard not to laugh at your posts.... Predictor of the future? I predict that someone will get injured next year. Now that I've said that IT MAY HAPPEN I AM thee predictor of the future.

Gortat, now possibly barnes, and CJ. Why does Olando keep improving ???!!!! I hate that crap.

[Super_Mario_3]

@rjgraca

oh wow, so you're calling your writer from nesn.com credible? and now this bleacherreport article is also credible? you discredit other articles, but then you post articles that are even more unreliable than the articles and stats posted here. talk about hypocrisy

i know some some espn articles/writers are unreliable. after all, all of them picked the cavs to win over the magic in the playoffs.

let's see. this is very basic. both of your "credible" articles call vince carter injury-prone. in the past 5 seasons, carter has missed an average of 3.2 games per season. i didn't twist any stats to get that one. i simply added the total number of games he missed for the past 5 seasons (16) and divided it by 5 (the number of seasons). so are you telling me that the average number of games VC has missed the past 5 seasons is irrelevant to the discussion on whether or not he is injury-prone?

now you post a new article from hoopsvibe saying the magic shouldnt have matched the offer for gortat. so the article is saying that because they matched the offer for gortat, the magic has taken a step back. do you realize how stupid that sounds? if they didn't match, dwight would have been the only center in the lineup and gortat would have walked off with nothing in return. so now because they match, dwight would have a backup center and because of that, they take a step back?

wow. keep the ridiculous articles coming

dwighty, Summing up your contributions to this thread so far are your sigs of.



Let me see...ESPN is credible when it boosts Orlando hyperbole which then again is all that you post anyways. The ESPN writer's picked the Laker's to beat the Celtics too...so that makes your source as ESPN credible??? .

Your getting a little better with your posts now in examining the number of games that he missed the last 3 seasons and using it as a stat....straight forward which is good---but not predictor of future health or even productivity given VC's age since no one escapes the decline of age.

Yes, matching Gortat was opening a can of worms that the Magic didn't need to do. The CAVs matched Varejao after their 2007 finals appearance and that was a disaster. I was really expecting Orlando to do a sign and trade to a team like Houston and I think the Magic just attached a boat anchor contract to themselves much like the Memphis Grizzlies did when they signed Brian Cardinal. I think that it's a little arrogant on your part to question me on how stupid it sounds when you are glossing over a lot of negative variables here with Gortat in your quest to show your self as the leader of the Orlando homer parade .

Wow, I guess you will keep the silly arrogant reason's coming why Orlando is not spending it's money wisely. The Knicks signed big names too with Isiah Thomas without regard to fit or chemistry and that worked out good for them too...NOT.

here you go again! it's so fun to debate with you because either you try use stupid articles or you try to use stupid analogies. you never learn, do you?

when i posted the average games (3.2) VC missed for the past 5 years (not 3 years, learn to read! ), you counter it by saying that stat is not a "good predictor of future health." lol. i wonder what would be a better "predictor" of good health than checking how many games a player missed for the past 5 years. mind you, 5 years is half a decade. that's a pretty long time to miss just 16 games. here are some players younger than VC who aren't injury prone and the number of games they've missed for the past 5 years: kobe bryant (23), joe johnson (28), chris bosh (46). so you see, age is not a good "predictor" of good health. give it up, don't try to defend the worthless articles, everyone knows VC is not injury-prone.

and for your new analogy, we were talking about improving the team, not how much money we spend. if you run a poll in the general boards asking whether the magic improved because they matched gortat's offer or if they took a step back because of that move, you would be the only one who will vote that the magic took a step back. are you freaking serious? you're trying to defend the article which said the magic took a step back because they matched gortat's offer sheet?

and regarding your analogies, what do any of those have to do with the magic?

1) are you seriously comparing anderson varejao's situation with the magic? are you really a cavs fan? it's not even august and gortat is with the magic already. did you know that when varejao was a restricted free agent, the cleveland only signed him when the following season had already started, december 5, 2007 to be exact.

2) you're comparing gortat to cardinal? i wouldnt even bother to explain this.

3) "The Knicks signed big names too with Isiah Thomas without regard to fit or chemistry and that worked out good for them too...NOT." - NEWS FLASH! knicks (isiah thomas era) signed free agent from other teams. gortat did not come from another team. you were wondering about our chemistry because we re-signed a player we had last season?

[Idunkonyou2]

The Magic are a better team on paper period. The haters can argue against that fact until their blue in the face for all I care. Whether they win it all is up to how good their chemistry is.

[TheMartian]

Definitely better on paper. I'm anxious to see how the new additions to the elite teams pan out this season.

[Idunkonyou2]

Definitely better on paper. I'm anxious to see how the new additions to the elite teams pan out this season.

I'm interested to see the chick in your avatar naked.

[Hilltop]

The Magic are definitely a better team. Yes on paper only, but at this point, everything is on paper. LOL @ those saying that if we don't win 59 or if we don't make it to the Finals this is not a better team.

The way I see it, no one can be sure if the Magic will surpass what they did last year (which in this case, means winning more than 60 and winning the title already). Even if they don't achieve that however, it doesn't mean that this team is necessarily 'worse' than the last. It just means they didn't 'do better'. In theory, a better team will win more games, but that is given all other variables are constant and nothing else changes. That's just not how it works, because the NBA is always changing. Other teams are signing new guys, trading players, new stars are on the rise, new coaches are coming in, chemistry improves/turns sour etc. That said, a 'better team' gives you a 'better chance' at competing, but it does not ascertain 'better results' automatically. People seem to equate the two, and I can understand why, but I feel it would be oversimplifying it too much. They are not mutually inclusive things in my opinion.

To think of a dummy analogy, it's like saying a racer that came in 2nd place, decided to bring in a more powerful engine and newer (better) parts for his car during the summer. He therefore 'improved' his vehicle. But if the rest of the racers improved their cars as well, if the rules of the game somewhat changed, and if some fortuitous event occurs (car breaks down or whatever), he may still not do better than he did the last time. If he finishes 3rd or 4th place this time, I guess you could call that an 'inferior performance', but does that mean that his 'new car' was not better than his last one? Not necessarily. In the same manner, had he used his SAME car from the last race in which he finished 2nd place, is there really any guarantee that he would still finish 2nd and not worse given that the rest of the racers had upped the competition? Of course not and it isn't very likely either.

[rjgraca]

here you go again! it's so fun to debate with you because either you try use stupid articles or you try to use stupid analogies. you never learn, do you?

when i posted the average games (3.2) VC missed for the past 5 years (not 3 years, learn to read! ), you counter it by saying that stat is not a "good predictor of future health." lol. i wonder what would be a better "predictor" of good health than checking how many games a player missed for the past 5 years. mind you, 5 years is half a decade. that's a pretty long time to miss just 16 games. here are some players younger than VC who aren't injury prone and the number of games they've missed for the past 5 years: kobe bryant (23), joe johnson (28), chris bosh (46). so you see, age is not a good "predictor" of good health. give it up, don't try to defend the worthless articles, everyone knows VC is not injury-prone.

and for your new analogy, we were talking about improving the team, not how much money we spend. if you run a poll in the general boards asking whether the magic improved because they matched gortat's offer or if they took a step back because of that move, you would be the only one who will vote that the magic took a step back. are you freaking serious? you're trying to defend the article which said the magic took a step back because they matched gortat's offer sheet?

and regarding your analogies, what do any of those have to do with the magic?

1) are you seriously comparing anderson varejao's situation with the magic? are you really a cavs fan? it's not even august and gortat is with the magic already. did you know that when varejao was a restricted free agent, the cleveland only signed him when the following season had already started, december 5, 2007 to be exact.


2) you're comparing gortat to cardinal? i wouldnt even bother to explain this.

3) "The Knicks signed big names too with Isiah Thomas without regard to fit or chemistry and that worked out good for them too...NOT." - NEWS FLASH! knicks (isiah thomas era) signed free agent from other teams. gortat did not come from another team. you were wondering about our chemistry because we re-signed a player we had last season?

Try and read Hilltop's last post to get a clue.

Like the famous statement from Forest Gumps movie...stupid is what stupid does which sums up the quality of your posts.




My salute to your your myopic mind boggling lack of insight posts by using your sig that symbolizes your contribution to this thread with your delusions.

[Magicalltheway]

Biggest difference between the Cavs and the Magic that I see is that the Cavs are signing players trying to keep LJ, while Magic are trying to win the Championship now.

As it stands right now I dont see Cavs fixing their defficiencies, but telling LJ "see we are doing every thing we can to make you happy, please stay"

During the last playoffs the only true threat to us was the Cs and with KG back in the line up, imo we have picked up two good PFs to to be able to do a better job on him. They still remain my only concern in the east. And that is not because of KG or Sheed, Pierce is what makes Celtic a contender.

[Chubby Chaser]

I think the Magic are definitely a better player with their acquisition of Vince over Hedo. When the games on the line, the Magic's only play is to give the ball to hedo on the top of the key and run an iso play for him. Although I must admit Hedo delivers more times than not. It's still not a recipe to win. At the end of the day Hedo is still a jump shooting wing player. Just like everyone else on that team. Magic needs someone that can drive and create their own shot. This will help out Dwight a lot too if they can get penetration. The Magic would of been really stacked if they were able to keep Hedo and add Vince. Then that would be really interesting. They'd have a legit Big 4 in Dwight Vince, Shard, and Hedo. Almost as good as the Lakers' big 5 now (assuming we keep Odom, Kobe, Pau, Bynum, Artest) (Sorry, had to get my Lakers reference in )

So I do think the Magic are better with Vince than they are with Hedo. Vince brings something to the team that they've been lacking with all those jump shooters. AND vince can hit the 3 down too. So it works for them. However, I do think they over achieved last year, so I don't know if they'll match their deep playoff run this past year. But we'll see. I guess that's why we play the games huh? o

[Bay_Areas_Finest]

lol @ Bynum being in a "Big 5".

And Orlando already has a "Big 4": NELSON, Carter, Lewis, Howard.

[orlandomike]

Now Orlando signs Barnes.

I still dont get why people compare Hedo with Carter. Hedo is a SF, Carter a guard.

Lewis will probably move to SF. Now compare Lewis to Hedo, a quicker better shooter IMO, then Carter with the rookie from last year. Hands down better. Nelson is back. Bass at PF and the bench now with Anderson, Gortat, Barnes, Pietrus, Redick. How can they not be better?

[Super_Mario_3]

here you go again! it's so fun to debate with you because either you try use stupid articles or you try to use stupid analogies. you never learn, do you?

when i posted the average games (3.2) VC missed for the past 5 years (not 3 years, learn to read! ), you counter it by saying that stat is not a "good predictor of future health." lol. i wonder what would be a better "predictor" of good health than checking how many games a player missed for the past 5 years. mind you, 5 years is half a decade. that's a pretty long time to miss just 16 games. here are some players younger than VC who aren't injury prone and the number of games they've missed for the past 5 years: kobe bryant (23), joe johnson (28), chris bosh (46). so you see, age is not a good "predictor" of good health. give it up, don't try to defend the worthless articles, everyone knows VC is not injury-prone.

and for your new analogy, we were talking about improving the team, not how much money we spend. if you run a poll in the general boards asking whether the magic improved because they matched gortat's offer or if they took a step back because of that move, you would be the only one who will vote that the magic took a step back. are you freaking serious? you're trying to defend the article which said the magic took a step back because they matched gortat's offer sheet?

and regarding your analogies, what do any of those have to do with the magic?

1) are you seriously comparing anderson varejao's situation with the magic? are you really a cavs fan? it's not even august and gortat is with the magic already. did you know that when varejao was a restricted free agent, the cleveland only signed him when the following season had already started, december 5, 2007 to be exact.


2) you're comparing gortat to cardinal? i wouldnt even bother to explain this.

3) "The Knicks signed big names too with Isiah Thomas without regard to fit or chemistry and that worked out good for them too...NOT." - NEWS FLASH! knicks (isiah thomas era) signed free agent from other teams. gortat did not come from another team. you were wondering about our chemistry because we re-signed a player we had last season?

Try and read Hilltop's last post to get a clue.

Like the famous statement from Forest Gumps movie...stupid is what stupid does which sums up the quality of your posts.




My salute to your your myopic mind boggling lack of insight posts by using your sig that symbolizes your contribution to this thread with your delusions.

since it's obvious you can no longer defend your articles because a) it's very clear that VC is NOT injury-prone and b) the Magic clearly improved by matching gortat's offer sheet, you stop arguing on the points being discussed and instead of posting ridiculous articles, you are now posting a movie quote. ask other cav fans like InBoobieWeTrust or Benedict_Boozer if they think that VC is injury-prone or if the Magic took a step back because they re-signed gortat and you might be surprised that sane cav fans don't hold the same opinion as yours

you really are just a magic hater. you haven't even posted a single, valid point backed by facts or any stat. you just make sweeping statements like "VC is old already, you never know when he's gonna get injured" to debate on a point on whether or not vc is injury-prone.

funny you mentioned hilltop. ill leave you with a quote of his which sums up what you do here:

I understand you might be irritated with how much Magic fans are posting and posting, but the thing is, when you have people here who cannot read replies and comprehend anything and instead just say the same things again and again (even if disproved already), things are bound to get redundant. The story of this thread is basically:

Step : Hater or Ignorant tool (often times he is both) says something ridiculous like Courtney will be better than Vince, Hedo is better than Vince, Hedo cannot be replaced, Hedo was the best player in the Playoffs, Vince is not clutch, all he can do is score, and many such ludicrous things.

Step 2: Sane individual (doesn't have to even be a Magic fan lol) comes out and dismisses these ridiculous statements and proceeds to provide factual evidence as to why that is the case. In the process the ignorant tools are bashed for it, which is not a surprise.

Step 3: The hater do one of two things. He will either provide no valid counter-argument and just fade into temporary obscurity, or come out calling the Magic fan a homer.

Step 4: Hater will then resurface after his (Please Use More Appropriate Word) statements and the arguments that thrashed his statements have faded by a few pages (ala Kosar, Manny Phail, and Cat). He will then simply restate these ignorant things and the process begins all over again.

[bc legends]

lol @ Bynum being in a "Big 5".

And Orlando already has a "Big 4": NELSON, Carter, Lewis, Howard.

+1 the guys a huge laker homer

[demcanes26]

lol @ Bynum being in a "Big 5".

And Orlando already has a "Big 4": NELSON, Carter, Lewis, Howard.

+1 the guys a huge laker homer

You might want to check those stats. Bynum in the REGULAR SEASON was a more effecient player than RONDO, CARTER, AND LEWIS. You guys kill me with all this laughing.

[bc legends]

lol @ Bynum being in a "Big 5".

And Orlando already has a "Big 4": NELSON, Carter, Lewis, Howard.

+1 the guys a huge laker homer

You might want to check those stats. Bynum in the REGULAR SEASON was a more effecient player than RONDO, CARTER, AND LEWIS. You guys kill me with all this laughing.

are you kidding me?
are you going to sit there and try to put more value on bynum over rondo, carter, or lewis?
your about as confused as the guy thinking the lakers have a big 5.
what do you people define as being a big player on a team? i can look at both boston and orlando and say they have a legimate big 3. why? because garnett/allen/pierce & nelson/carter/howard are quite arguably top 5 in their respective positions. dont tell me for one second you think bynum is in that same category.

[crazytown]

@ how much Laker fans overrate Bynum. Dude played well for a total of a month and a half in his career.

Simmer down.

[Hilltop]

Bynum's no slouch, but I don't think I would call it a big 5 really Please

[cwas2882]

lol @ Bynum being in a "Big 5".

And Orlando already has a "Big 4": NELSON, Carter, Lewis, Howard.

+1 the guys a huge laker homer

You might want to check those stats. Bynum in the REGULAR SEASON was a more effecient player than RONDO, CARTER, AND LEWIS. You guys kill me with all this laughing.

And Artest in the REGULAR SEASON was a less efficient player than all of them. The only person Ododm beats out is Artest. Artest's PER was barely above the league's average. So if you want to include Bynum because of PER, go ahead and exclude Artest