Touch fouls for big men?

tranjSAIC · Post #1 » by **tranjSAIC** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:27 pm

Since the NBA caters to wing players now a days with all those touch fouls do you think it is fair/OK that the big men don't get that same treatment. Since I'm a Magic fan and we have one of the top big men in the game, I think it's complete BS that guys barely get touched on the wing and it's a foul while Dwight is getting murdered in the paint.

I guess I can see the other side of it though, wing players are more exciting and that's what sports is about, excitement!

britblazerdude · Post #2 » by **britblazerdude** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:28 pm

Touch fouls for big men kill the entertainment value of the game. Your poll question also makes no sense.

ImmortalD24 · Post #3 » by **ImmortalD24** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:48 pm

Great! Just what the nba needed.. more touch fouls.

Imagine Dwight trying to defend Gasol & Bynum and being called for touch fouls? :lol:

HTown_TMac · Post #4 » by **HTown_TMac** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:12 pm

Touch Fouls? No...

But Big Men get killed down there.

Blue_and_Whte · Post #5 » by **Blue_and_Whte** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:30 pm

With all the hacking and neck and shoulder grabbing that strong post scorers endure there shouldn't be touch fouls being called. That's ridiculous

rockybalboa11 · Post #6 » by **rockybalboa11** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:34 pm

yao would probably score 35 a game

ImmortalD24 · Post #7 » by **ImmortalD24** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:36 pm

And he'd foul out by half-time. :lol:

No Offense · Post #8 » by **No Offense** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:47 pm

According to http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stats/, Orlando is #1 in 3 pointers attempted in the league at 28.3. They are #1 with points from three pointers with 31.2 per game. They are dead last in points from two pointers with 50.4 per game. They are third in the league of free throws attempted with 28.0 per game and 8th in the league of points from free throws with 19.7 per game. Orlando gets called for the 4th least amount of personal fouls per game with 20.2. They also draw the 2nd most fouls per game with their opponents committing 23.5 per game.

This means that:

1. Orlando shoots a lot of threes
2. Orlando makes a lot of threes
3. Orlando doesn't shoot a lot of two point shots
4. Orlando shoots a lot of free throws
5. Orlando doesn't make a lot of free throws compared to how many they take
6. Orlando doesn't get called for a lot of personal fouls
7. Orlando's opponents get called for a lot of fouls.

Can we stop talking about the fake tragedy that is the the unfair treatment towards the Orlando Magic by the NBA and officiating crews? It's silliness.

East Oakland · Post #9 » by **East Oakland** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:47 pm

Touch fouls are stupid. These are grown men playing, not sissies (except Mike Dunleavy Jr).

Lakers05 · Post #10 » by **Lakers05** » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:42 pm

Please, Bynum doesn't get called for 3-sec any more than what is reasonable. He is usually very conscious about it, and when he gets called for it, it's normal.

Now the defensive 3-sec is different. It seems like refs pretty much anticipate those calls and call him for it, even if they didn't actually see him do it.

And don't even get me started on the fouls and non-fouls against him.

I do agree with you about Pau, however. In fact, if one was to make an argument of Pau vs Kobe, or Bynum vs Pau, I think calls are what make the difference wider than it is.

I also agree that Dwight does get hammer in the paint a lot, but no way he gets less calls overall than Bynum.

My opinion is that Bynum gets the least calls, followed by Dwight and Kobe(not necessarily in that order), then Pau.

No Offense · Post #11 » by **No Offense** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:30 am

No Offense wrote:According to http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stats/, Orlando is #1 in 3 pointers attempted in the league at 28.3. They are #1 with points from three pointers with 31.2 per game. They are dead last in points from two pointers with 50.4 per game. They are third in the league of free throws attempted with 28.0 per game and 8th in the league of points from free throws with 19.7 per game. Orlando gets called for the 4th least amount of personal fouls per game with 20.2. They also draw the 2nd most fouls per game with their opponents committing 23.5 per game.

This means that:

1. Orlando shoots a lot of threes
2. Orlando makes a lot of threes
3. Orlando doesn't shoot a lot of two point shots
4. Orlando shoots a lot of free throws
5. Orlando doesn't make a lot of free throws compared to how many they take
6. Orlando doesn't get called for a lot of personal fouls
7. Orlando's opponents get called for a lot of fouls.

Can we stop talking about the fake tragedy that is the the unfair treatment towards the Orlando Magic by the NBA and officiating crews? It's silliness.

Dwight Howard also leads the entire league in FTA per game with 11.1 per game. LeBron is 6th after Wade, Kevin Martin, Chris Bosh and Carmelo Anthony.

Additionally, the NBA rescinded the technical foul on Howard from last night "on Magic's urging."

The idea that the league has an agenda against the Magic is so ridiculous, it's laughable to me. I'm not arguing that they get intentional preferential treatment, but I think that this idea that is so wide-spread is possibly making officials hesitant to call them for fouls or swallow their whistle.

***Edit***

I meant to edit my last post instead of quote. My bad.

kuhane gace · Post #12 » by **kuhane gace** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:14 am

tranjSAIC wrote:Since the NBA caters to wing players now a days with all those touch fouls do you think it is fair/OK that the big men don't get that same treatment. Since I'm a Magic fan and we have one of the top big men in the game, I think it's complete BS that guys barely get touched on the wing and it's a foul while Dwight is getting murdered in the paint.

I guess I can see the other side of it though, wing players are more exciting and that's what sports is about, excitement!

yeah it's a BS
dwight isn't murded in paint. Zo, Hakeem, Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Rodman, Dikembe, Shaq etc. murded each other before Stern saw shoes arn't selling like before and player stats are droping

Wigginstime · Post #13 » by **Wigginstime** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:47 am

If they give touch fouls to big men, it has to go both ways.

Although its true that big men can get hacked pretty hard without getting a foul, the same goes for the defense. Its amazing how much shoving an offensive player can do down low to get positioning.

rockybalboa11 · Post #14 » by **rockybalboa11** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:54 am

ImmortalD24 wrote:And he'd foul out by half-time.

he is actually pretty good at keeping his hands up compared to dwight or bynum etc.

Post #15 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:15 am

I don't mind big men not being called when they battle in the paint. It's when small guys run in and throw themselves into big guys that pisses me off. They know all they have to do is feint contact and the big man is going to the bench.

GameOver25 · Post #16 » by **GameOver25** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:42 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:I don't mind big men not being called when they battle in the paint. It's when small guys run in and throw themselves into big guys that pisses me off. They know all they have to do is feint contact and the big man is going to the bench.

Yup

The_Answer · Post #17 » by **The_Answer** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:32 am

No Offense wrote:According to http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stats/, Orlando is #1 in 3 pointers attempted in the league at 28.3. They are #1 with points from three pointers with 31.2 per game. They are dead last in points from two pointers with 50.4 per game. They are third in the league of free throws attempted with 28.0 per game and 8th in the league of points from free throws with 19.7 per game. Orlando gets called for the 4th least amount of personal fouls per game with 20.2. They also draw the 2nd most fouls per game with their opponents committing 23.5 per game.

This means that:

1. Orlando shoots a lot of threes
2. Orlando makes a lot of threes
3. Orlando doesn't shoot a lot of two point shots
4. Orlando shoots a lot of free throws
5. Orlando doesn't make a lot of free throws compared to how many they take
6. Orlando doesn't get called for a lot of personal fouls
7. Orlando's opponents get called for a lot of fouls.

Can we stop talking about the fake tragedy that is the the unfair treatment towards the Orlando Magic by the NBA and officiating crews? It's silliness.

Your analysis doesn't make sense. You can't string up a bunch of random stats and hope to make a correlation. Case and point, numbers 1,2,3, and 5 have nothing to do with the argument you're attempting to make.

Saying that the Magic get called for the 4th least amount of fouls per game of any team in the league doesn't really indicate anything given the fact that 5 fouls separate 1st from dead last, and 2.3 fouls separate 1st from 18th.

They draw the 2nd most fouls in the league because of one player, Dwight Howard, and even then, less than 2 fouls per game separate Orlando from #18, Dallas. Wouldn't you think that there should be a greater gap between these teams given the fact that opponents employ Hack-a-Howard on a routine basis?

Anyway, this discussion really just deviates from the premise of the thread. The OP's not arguing that the Magic get the short end of the stick, he argues that Howard receives ticky tack calls compared to the league's perimeter players and essentially wanted to pose the question of whether or not Big men should be officiated differently due to their size.

I say, yes. Basketball's a more exciting game when two bigs slug it out as opposed to two perimeter players.

bigbreakfast · Post #18 » by **bigbreakfast** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:54 am

Less touch fouls for perimeter players. That way no one gets touch fouls. The worst is when a perimeter player drives in and throws themselves into a big and get bailed out by a call.

Post #19 » by **Hilltop** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:56 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:I don't mind big men not being called when they battle in the paint. It's when small guys run in and throw themselves into big guys that pisses me off. They know all they have to do is feint contact and the big man is going to the bench.

You hit it right on the head. That's what I hate more than anything.

No Offense · Post #20 » by **No Offense** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:47 pm

The_Answer wrote:
No Offense wrote:According to http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stats/, Orlando is #1 in 3 pointers attempted in the league at 28.3. They are #1 with points from three pointers with 31.2 per game. They are dead last in points from two pointers with 50.4 per game. They are third in the league of free throws attempted with 28.0 per game and 8th in the league of points from free throws with 19.7 per game. Orlando gets called for the 4th least amount of personal fouls per game with 20.2. They also draw the 2nd most fouls per game with their opponents committing 23.5 per game.

This means that:

1. Orlando shoots a lot of threes
2. Orlando makes a lot of threes
3. Orlando doesn't shoot a lot of two point shots
4. Orlando shoots a lot of free throws
5. Orlando doesn't make a lot of free throws compared to how many they take
6. Orlando doesn't get called for a lot of personal fouls
7. Orlando's opponents get called for a lot of fouls.

Can we stop talking about the fake tragedy that is the the unfair treatment towards the Orlando Magic by the NBA and officiating crews? It's silliness.

Your analysis doesn't make sense. You can't string up a bunch of random stats and hope to make a correlation. Case and point, numbers 1,2,3, and 5 have nothing to do with the argument you're attempting to make.

Saying that the Magic get called for the 4th least amount of fouls per game of any team in the league doesn't really indicate anything given the fact that 5 fouls separate 1st from dead last, and 2.3 fouls separate 1st from 18th.

They draw the 2nd most fouls in the league because of one player, Dwight Howard, and even then, less than 2 fouls per game separate Orlando from #18, Dallas. Wouldn't you think that there should be a greater gap between these teams given the fact that opponents employ Hack-a-Howard on a routine basis?

Anyway, this discussion really just deviates from the premise of the thread. The OP's not arguing that the Magic get the short end of the stick, he argues that Howard receives ticky tack calls compared to the league's perimeter players and essentially wanted to pose the question of whether or not Big men should be officiated differently due to their size.

I say, yes. Basketball's a more exciting game when two bigs slug it out as opposed to two perimeter players.

The argument I am making is that despite all of the threes Orlando shoots, they get to the line a lot. They don't get called for fouls, either. Dwight Howard shoots a lot of those fouls, which means he gets to the line a lot. He also leads the entire league in FTA.

The common theme in these stats? Fouls. All of them show that Orlando and Dwight Howard are not getting hosed. They especially aren't getting it to the extreme that many Orlando fans would have you think.

They have been called for the most amount of technical fouls in the league and and called for the 4th fewest. That means they are not getting called for fouls and complaining to the officials a lot.

If you don't think the stats I provided mean anything, then provide some that do to counter my argument. Howard may get called for a bad foul every game or two, but every player does. And for a guy who hangs his hat on defense, he is more aggressive on that end of the floor and will put himself in positions where he is vulnerable for being called on a foul.

***Edit***

The bottom line is that this is yet another thread made by a Magic fan who is trying to convince everybody that the league is unfair with the Magic. The stats I provided go to show that may not be the case.