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Retro Player of the Year Project

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Post#1 Retro Player of the Year Project
Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:06 pm by Doctor MJ

Fantastic website showing the result created by semi-sentient: http://www.dolem.com/poy

A summary thread for the project viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1063275

Alright, new project: We go back through the years and vote for who we think had the 5 best seasons each year. This will work like an MVP voting, but will cover both regular and post seasons.

Anyone who would like to be part of the project, just say so in this thread over the next few days. I'm hoping to officially kick this off next Monday. 2 requirements though:

1) This project's going to take a while. Please don't sign up without planning to be in it for the long haul. It'll be okay if stuff comes up and you have to pull out, or if you miss a few votes, but if you don't have an interest in really going back into NBA history to do this, please don't sign up.

2) Every year you vote, you've got to spend some time on research. I'll put a structure in place to make it easier for people - but you'll still have to put some time in. It's not cool to just vote based on the fact that a certain player was in his prime.

Once we get started, the voting membership will be officially closed, but if you PM me with your interest, and convince me you're serious, I'll let you in.

On the other hand, I'll boot people out if I don't think they're being serious.

Some other details, feel free to ask questions or voice objections while we're getting this set up:

-Planning to start with 08-09 season, and go backward all the way until basketball-reference doesn't have sufficient info. When the 09-10 post-season ends, we'll take a break from history and vote on that.

-The criteria of "best season" is meant to emulate MVP thinking. Obviously different people think about MVP differently, so it's okay that the same holds for our POY. That said, this is a proof-in-pudding award. If a player got injured, got disgruntled, etc one season, that has to be factored in.

-Voting weights will be just like the MVP: 10-7-5-3-1. This will be used note only to determine POYs, but we'll also track POY shares over players' careers.

-Each voting will take 3 days. I'll add them up at the end. You can change your voting after you post it up until I do the final count, but please do it by editing your original post to make it easier for me.

-Votings will overlap since they aren't dependent on each other, so sometimes we'll have more than one voting "live" at once.

-This will be an NBA-centric project, but will include leagues that became incorporated into the NBA. So for example in 1976, NBA & ABA will both be considered. Not planning to consider international ball, though I'll listen to arguments for that - I'm just not convinced there's enough data to do it well.

Current voting members (Home team)
1. Doctor MJ (Lakers)
2. tkb (Lakers)
3. penbeast0 (Wizards)
4. TrueLAfan (Clippers)
5. Silver Bullet (Raptors)
6. Sedale Threatt (Lakers)
7. ElGee
8. Gongxi (Bulls)
9. Mysticbb (Bulls)
10. Bastillon
11. JordansBulls
12. Dr Mufasa (Raptors)
13. Shawngoat23
14. Drza (76ers)
15. Optimism Prime (Rockets)
16. Ronnymac2 (Lakers)
17. Baller24 (Rockets)
18. TMACFORMVP
19. the_rock220
20. DavidStern
21. An Unbiased Fan (Lakers)
22. Manuel Calavera (Trail Blazers)
23. CellarDoor
24. semi-sentient (Lakers)
25. Tesla (Lakers)
26. sp6r=underrated (Knicks)
27. ItsMillerTime (Pacers)
28. NO-KG-AI (Hornets)
29. kaima
30. Mean_Streets
31. ThaRegul8r
32. fatal9

Ballot Thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1010279

Years (Winner - Share))

'13-14 (LeBron James - 0.960)
'12-13 (LeBron James - 1.000)
'11-12 (LeBron James - 1.000)
'10-11 (Dirk Nowitzki - 0.939)
'09-10 (LeBron James - 0.816)
'08-09 (LeBron James - 0.967)
'07-08 (Kevin Garnett - 0.692)
'06-07 (Tim Duncan - 0.918)
'05-06 (Dwyane Wade - 0.891)
'04-05 (Tim Duncan - 0.868)
'03-04 (Kevin Garnett - 1.000)
'02-03 (Tim Duncan - 0.964)
'01-02 (Shaquille O'Neal - 0.884)
'00-01 (Shaquille O'Neal - 1.000)
'99-00 (Shaquille O'Neal - 1.000)
'98-99 (Tim Duncan - 0.932)
'97-98 (Michael Jordan - 0.952)
'96-97 (Michael Jordan - 0.986)
'95-96 (Michael Jordan - 1.000)
'94-95 (Hakeem Olajuwon - 0.922)
'93-94 (Hakeem Olajuwon - 0.988)
'92-93 (Michael Jordan - 0.978)
'91-92 (Michael Jordan - 1.000)
'90-91 (Michael Jordan - 1.000)
'89-90 (Michael Jordan - 0.918)
'88-89 (Michael Jordan - 1.000)
'87-88 (Michael Jordan - 0.886)
'86-87 (Magic Johnson - 0.974)
'85-86 (Larry Bird - 1.000)
'84-85 (Larry Bird - 0.900)
'83-84 (Larry Bird - 1.000)
'82-83 (Moses Malone - 1.000)
'81-82 (Moses Malone - 0.971)
'80-81 (Larry Bird - 0.850)
'79-80 (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 1.000)
'78-79 (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 0.914)
'77-78 (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 0.738)
'76-77 (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 0.872)
'75-76 (Julius Erving - 0.950)
'74-75 (Rick Barry - 0.890)
'73-74 (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 0.981)
'72-73 (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 0.871)
'71-72 (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 0.981)
'70-71 (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 1.000)
'69-70 (Jerry West - 0.968)
'68-69 (Bill Russell - 0.844)
'67-68 (Wilt Chamberlain - 0.856)
'66-67 (Wilt Chamberlain - 1.000)
'65-66 (Wilt Chamberlain - 0.857)
'64-65 (Bill Russell - 1.000)
'63-64 (Wilt Chamberlain - 0.865)
'62-63 (Bill Russell - 0.975)
'61-62 (Bill Russell - 0.925)
'60-61 (Bill Russell - 1.000)
'59-60 (Bill Russell - 0.914)
'58-59 (Bill Russell - 1.000)
'57-58 (Bob Pettit - 0.864)
'56-57 (Bob Pettit - 0.938)
'55-56 (Paul Arizin - 0.933)
'54-55 (Dolph Schayes - 0.925)

All votings: http://www.dolem.com/poy/

Article Cache: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1023664

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As y'all undoubtedly noticed, we just ran a really damn long project. The idea was that we'd go back in NBA history and name the Player of the Year for each year. In the end we decided to go back through the beginning of the shot clock era. Our definition for the Player of the Year was the player who had the best season, including both regular season and playoffs. Kind of like an all-season MVP, but I felt using that same term would be too constraining.

Before I go any further, everyone should check out semi-sentient's site for the results of this project:

http://www.dolem.com/poy/

Voting was patterned after MVP voting, which means that we vote for the top 5 players in the league, and hence if there existed a player everyone agreed was 6th best, he wouldn't show up at all here. For this and a few other reasons, don't get too fixated on the data in the project as being a definitive ranking of best players or best careers. If you are really interested in analyzing our decision making, or simply interested in learning about history, I'd really recommend that you go to the first post of the project's main thread, and click on the links we have for every year we did.

I've taken some of that data and played around to come up with the things I'm going to list here. You can do the same using his site as the basis.

Without further ado:

The RPOY 59 (for the 59 years of shot clock basketball) based on POY shares:

Code: Select all
1. Bill Russell
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Michael Jordan
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Magic Johnson

6. Tim Duncan
7. Larry Bird
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. LeBron James (up 1)
10. Julius Erving

11. Karl Malone
12. Bob Pettit
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Kobe Bryant (up 1)
(tie). Hakeem Olajuwon

16. Jerry West
17. Kevin Garnett
18. Moses Malone
19. Dwyane Wade
20. David Robinson

21. Dirk Nowitzki
22. Elgin Baylor
23. Dolph Schayes
24. Walt Frazier
25. Charles Barkley

26. Chris Paul (up 5)
27. George Gervin
28. Kevin Durant (up 10)
29. Bob McAdoo
30. Bill Walton

31. Steve Nash
32. Rick Barry
33. Bob Cousy
34. Neil Johnston
35. Dwight Howard

36. Patrick Ewing
37. Paul Arizin
38. Alonzo Mourning
39. Gary Payton
40. Willis Reed

41. Artis Gilmore
42. John Havlicek
43. Dave Cowens
44. Sidney Moncrief
45. Tracy McGrady

46. Cliff Hagan
47. Larry Foust
48. Bob Lanier
49. Clyde Drexler
50. Bernard King

51. Scottie Pippen
52. Grant Hill
53. Nate Thurmond
54. David Thompson
55. Allen Iverson

56. Elvin Hayes
57. Dominique Wilkins
58. Isiah Thomas
59. Penny Hardaway


Players with the most years at #1 - our POYs:
Code: Select all
1. Michael Jordan (9 years)
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (8)
3. Bill Russell (7)
4. Larry Bird (4)
   Wilt Chamberlain (4)
   Tim Duncan (4)
   LeBron James (4)
8. Shaquille O'Neal (3)
9. Bob Pettit (2)
   Hakeem Olajuwon (2)
   Kevin Garnett (2)
   Moses Malone (2)


Players with most unanimous POY awards:

Code: Select all
1. Michael Jordan (4)
2. Bill Russell (3)
3. Larry Bird (2)
   LeBron James (2)
   Shaquille O'Neal (2)
5. Kevin Garnett (1)
   Moses Malone (1)
   Wilt Chamberlain (1)


Youngest POY winners (Age)

Code: Select all
1. Tim Duncan (22)
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (23)
3. Bill Russell (24)
   Bob Pettit (24)
   Dwyane Wade (24)
   Larry Bird (24)
   LeBron James (24)
   Michael Jordan (24)
9. Julius Erving (25)
10. Dolph Schayes (26)
    Moses Malone (26)


Oldest POY winners (Age)

Code: Select all
1. Bill Russell (34)
   Michael Jordan (34)
3. Hakeem Olajuwon (32)
   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (32)
   Dirk Nowitzki (32)
6. Jerry West (31)
   Kevin Garnett (31)
   Wilt Chamberlain (31)
9. Rick Barry (30)
   Tim Duncan (30)


Players with most years receiving votes:

Code: Select all
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (17)
2. Wilt Chamberlain (13)
   Tim Duncan (13)
   Julius Erving (13)
   Karl Malone (13)
   Bill Russell (13)   
7. Kobe Bryant (12)
   Hakeem Olajuwon (12)
9. Jerry West (11)
   Magic Johnson (11)
   Michael Jordan (11)
   Oscar Robertson (11)
   Shaquille O'Neal (11)
   Kevin Garnett (11)
   Dirk Nowitzki (11)


Highest 00s POY shares:

Code: Select all
1. Tim Duncan
2. Shaquille O'Neal
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Kevin Garnett
5. LeBron James

6. Dwyane Wade
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Steve Nash
9. Chris Paul
10. Tracy McGrady


Highest 90s POY shares:

Code: Select all
1. Michael Jordan
2. Karl Malone
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. David Robinson
5. Shaquille O'Neal

6. Magic Johnson
7. Charles Barkley
8. Patrick Ewing
9. Tim Duncan
10. Clyde Drexler


Highest 80s POY shares:

Code: Select all
1. Larry Bird
2. Magic Johnson
3. Moses Malone
4. Michael Jordan
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

6. Julius Erving
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Sidney Moncrief
9. Charles Barkley
10. Bernard King


Highest 70s POY shares:

Code: Select all
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Julius Erving
3. Walt Frazier
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Bob McAdoo

6. Jerry West
7. Bill Walton
8. George Gervin
9. Rick Barry
10. Artis Gilmore


Highest 60s POY shares:

Code: Select all
1. Bill Russell
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. Elgin Baylor

6. Bob Pettit
7. Nate Thurmond
8. Willis Reed
9. John Havlicek
10. Sam Jones


Highest POY shares, post-shot clock, pre-ABA years:

Code: Select all
1. Bill Russell
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bob Pettit
4. Oscar Robertson
5. Dolph Schayes

6. Elgin Baylor
7. Jerry West
8. Bob Cousy
9. Neil Johnston
10. Paul Arizin


Highest POY shares, during ABA years:

Code: Select all
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Jerry West
4. Julius Erving
5. Walt Frazier

6. Bill Russell
7. Bob McAdoo
8. Rick Barry
9. Oscar Robertson
10. Willis Reed


Highest POY shares, post-merger:

Code: Select all
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Tim Duncan
4. Larry Bird
5. Shaquille O'Neal

6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
7. Karl Malone
8. Hakeem Olajuwon
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Moses Malone


Players who have been a Player of the Decade over some 10 year period:
Code: Select all
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Shaquille O'Neal
Tim Duncan
LeBron James


Lists updated, July 2013
Doctor MJ



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Post#2 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:15 pm by Silver Bullet

Oh I'm in - if you have no objections...

Can I also add a suggestion, How about not having any voting the first two days, so that people can have a chance to make their cases (like a jury deciding on a case), I know you said people can change their votes later on, but in practice, most people won't.

Either way, with or without the suggestions, I'd like to be in.
The other thing, how about the voting teams disclose what their home team is, just for transparency, there might be some potential for bias if we have for example, 4 Heat fans on the panel and no Trailblazers fans.
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Post#3 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:37 am by Sedale Threatt

I'd like to vote. Lakers.
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Post#4 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:16 am by ElGee

I did something like this a few years back for the 3-point era, so I'd be interested. I have the same question as SB though - would it be a true vote, or would there be discussion/presentation before voting? Also, does someone have access to older games - my video collection only goes so far back...after that it becomes an exercise in box score analysis and trusting the *gasp* word of beat writers.
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Post#5 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:30 am by Gongxi

I'm new but can I play? Promise I'm not a (Please Use More Appropriate Word).
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Post#6 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:36 am by mysticbb

I would be interested in being a part of the voting.
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Post#7 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:46 am by bastillon

great idea. I'm in if you don't mind.
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Post#8 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:18 am by JordansBulls

I'd participate as well.
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Post#9 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:08 am by arkhimal

I want to participate too, count me in
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Post#10 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:09 pm by Dr Positivity

I'd be in
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Post#11 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:15 pm by Doctor MJ

Welcome to the project gentlemen!

Responding to specific points:

-I'll make the home team thing optional for now, I've added mine, give yours if you'd like. If we get almost everyone's I'll try to chase down the last few. I will say though that I don't think it's realistic to achieve balance with this so I'm not going to recruit from all the team boards.

-The goal here is absolutely discussion followed by votes, hard to see enforcing no votes until the last day, but I'll try to make it clear as we go forward that the discussion is the point. What I was specifically looking to address was whether to allow vote changes. When I was running one of the Top 100 projects, we didn't allow vote changes for various reasons. Here it seems silly to insist that people can't change their mind.

-Re: video. Pretty cool someone mentioned that. I intend to start off threads by linking to relevant data - but if others want to bring videos into this, that's fine by me. ElGee, if you have instructions/proposals for those who want to get into old game videos and aren't familiar with what's out there, go ahead at post them.
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Post#12 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:15 pm by Dr Positivity

Home team: Raptors
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Post#13 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:03 pm by Silver Bullet

My home team is the Raptors too - luckily that's as unbiased as you can get, as we've never had a player who'd qualify for a top 5 spot.
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Post#14 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:41 pm by kasino

count me in :D
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Post#15 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:44 pm by mysticbb

Bulls fan here, but don't worry I will not vote for Eddy Curry or Ron Mercer, but probably for Cliff Levingston. ;)
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Post#16 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:38 pm by Roger Murdock

Cavs fan, sign me up.
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Post#17 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:00 pm by shawngoat23

I'd like to get in, but I may not be able to commit to voting every time.
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Post#18 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:40 pm by drza

I'd love to be part of this. My schedule is so crazy, though, that I can't guarantee that I'll be a good member. If it's okay with you I'll try and see how it works, and if I'm not working out you can always boot me later.

No real home team to speak of. At various times in my life the 76ers, Cavs, Magic, and Timberwolves have been my favorite teams.
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Post#19 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:42 pm by bastillon

drza wrote:I'd love to be part of this. My schedule is so crazy, though, that I can't guarantee that I'll be a good member. If it's okay with you I'll try and see how it works, and if I'm not working out you can always boot me later.

No real home team to speak of. At various times in my life the 76ers, Cavs, Magic, and Timberwolves have been my favorite teams.


Dr J, KG, Penny and ... Larry Nance ? (would fit well with other players) :wink:
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Post#20 Re: Retro Player of the Year Project
Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:04 pm by Optimism Prime

I'm in if you'll have me. Home team... I'm a fan of the game as a whole, but most of my posts are on the Rockets board. ;)
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