2011 Kobe vs 2011 Wade: Who gets 1st team?

[therealbig3]

I don't agree with what you're saying, but we're digressing anyway. I was arguing with you saying they were similar statistically, when they clearly weren't. I don't know how you can ignore 3% on efficiency (big difference) in favor of 2 points (not so much) and less than 1 assist (again, not so much) per 36 minutes, which again, is a flawed way to look at things, because who says Kobe could have played 36 mpg without his scoring rate, rebounding rate, assists rate, etc. falling, and not having his efficiency affected? Wade playing more minutes actually contributes to his overall statistical value, since you want a guy that will play more minutes per game. And Wade ended up playing more total minutes this season, despite Kobe playing 6 more games, so Wade was able to stay on the court longer. That's a big deal.

And Wade's stats despite being Robin is actually more impressive, since Wade is putting up better stats while not having the ball in his hands nearly as much. Wade as the main guy on his team would see his assists and scoring skyrocket, while his other stats stay pretty much the same, but I have a feeling that people would still come on here and argue that Kobe was better, despite being worse statistically across the board...like he has been for the last 3 years.

[therealbig3]

Only people who think Fisher is one of the most clutch are delusional Kobe haters. The guy is the worse starting PG in the league. Sorry.

Brown is a SCRUB. The guy has been horrible for months now. lol @ talented. Yeah, at taking stupid shots and bricking and over-dribbling.

Artest and Bynum- two of the best defenders ? LMAO. Bynum is utterly average and his rotations are mediocre. Artest is merely good at this point. Not to mention he's the worst offensive starting SF in the league.

Uh, no. Kobe's per 36 numbers are better. And it doesn't matter if having LeBron doesn't help Wade's numbers. The fact is he's playing with by far the best player in basketball and another All-Star PF, which gives him the edge in terms of supporting cast.

Wade's team is easily more talented. Kobe has nobody who's even close to LeBron and his third best player (Bosh) is pretty much as good as Kobe's second (Pau). Plus, he has better shooters across the board.

His team is easily more stacked.

I'm not a Kobe hater by any stretch of the imagination. I defend him plenty of times. I just don't see how he's statistically superior to Wade, nor do I see why someone who I'm assuming to be a Lakers fan would want to downplay what Fisher's done. He's made a ton of big plays and come up big in a ton of playoff games...the dude is definitely one of the clutchest players of all time. Does that make him an overall good player? Not necessarily, but he has a knack for coming up big when you need him the most, a lot like Horry, a guy who was never anything more than a role player either.

Artest is another guy whose numbers aren't great, but he also has a knack for coming up big when you need him the most. And he's the guy that guards the other team's best perimeter player. And we saw how Durant and Pierce did against him in last year's playoffs. Artest is still one of the best defenders in the NBA.

And Bynum may not be the smartest defender, but he blocks a ton of shots and he rebounds like hell. He's a very intimidating presence in the paint, and he cleans up the glass. If he's not one of the best defenders in the NBA, he's someone I'd consider very good.

[Jay24]

lol @ 3% TS being a being a big difference and 2 PPG difference (which is large)+.6 edge in APG not being so.

And no, it's not flawed because we know Kobe has no problems playing 36 min+. He's proven this over and over again. It's only fair to adjust for minutes if you're going to use stats. We're not talking about Manu here. Then your point would be valid...

They're not more impressive because he doesn't see the defensive attention Kobe does and doesn't have to make all the big plays down the stretch like Bryant is asked to. Plus, who cares if he could put up better numbers without LBJ? I'm sure Kobe could put up much better numbers if Pau/Odom weren't there. Who cares?

Ad yeah, people are going to argue Kobe is the better player...because he is. And maybe they realize there's far more to the game than stats.

[Jay24]

Only people who think Fisher is one of the most clutch are delusional Kobe haters. The guy is the worse starting PG in the league. Sorry.

Brown is a SCRUB. The guy has been horrible for months now. lol @ talented. Yeah, at taking stupid shots and bricking and over-dribbling.

Artest and Bynum- two of the best defenders ? LMAO. Bynum is utterly average and his rotations are mediocre. Artest is merely good at this point. Not to mention he's the worst offensive starting SF in the league.

Uh, no. Kobe's per 36 numbers are better. And it doesn't matter if having LeBron doesn't help Wade's numbers. The fact is he's playing with by far the best player in basketball and another All-Star PF, which gives him the edge in terms of supporting cast.

Wade's team is easily more talented. Kobe has nobody who's even close to LeBron and his third best player (Bosh) is pretty much as good as Kobe's second (Pau). Plus, he has better shooters across the board.

His team is easily more stacked.

I'm not a Kobe hater by any stretch of the imagination. I defend him plenty of times. I just don't see how he's statistically superior to Wade, nor do I see why someone who I'm assuming to be a Lakers fan would want to downplay what Fisher's done. He's made a ton of big plays and come up big in a ton of playoff games...the dude is definitely one of the clutchest players of all time. Does that make him an overall good player? Not necessarily, but he has a knack for coming up big when you need him the most, a lot like Horry, a guy who was never anything more than a role player either.

Artest is another guy whose numbers aren't great, but he also has a knack for coming up big when you need him the most. And he's the guy that guards the other team's best perimeter player. And we saw how Durant and Pierce did against him in last year's playoffs. Artest is still one of the best defenders in the NBA.

And Bynum may not be the smartest defender, but he blocks a ton of shots and he rebounds like hell. He's a very intimidating presence in the paint, and he cleans up the glass. If he's not one of the best defenders in the NBA, he's someone I'd consider very good.

Except I never said he's statistically superior to Wade. I said they're close/similar, which is true.

I'm not downplaying Fisher, but he's not one of the most clutch ever. That's laughable. That would be guys like Miller/Bird/Jordan/Kobe etc. Not Fisher. Yeah, he's hit big shots, but he's also the worst starting PG in the league. If you're going to talk about Kobe's supporting cast that has to mentioned.

Artest is a good defender at his point. Nothing great, which is what you have to be to be considered one of the best in the entire league. Same thing with Bynum. And again, if you're going to use them to prop up Kobe's supporting cast, you should probably mention that Artest is the worse offensive starting SF in the league and Bynum has only started for 47 games. Must have slipped your mind...

[wicked_j]

I don't think its safe to assume that Kobe could average 36+ MPG, stay injury free, and be ready for a long playoff run. The Lakers coaching staff don't want him playing those minutes for a reason. Either way, I'm a Wade fan, but if Kobe gets it I won't be mad. They are two great players, and their numbers are relatively close.

[Kayjay]

wade plays a lot better d

he's my pick

[Showtime:Part2]

soooooo basically the same numbers (not to mention wade's rebound numbers are inflated without 2 seven footers and his assists are inflated due to xbox basketball) but one is the second banana while the other is the leader of his team. i'll take kobe.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

soooooo basically the same numbers (not to mention wade's rebound numbers are inflated without 2 seven footers and his assists are inflated due to xbox basketball) but one is the second banana while the other is the leader of his team. i'll take kobe.

lol

[USA]

soooooo basically the same numbers (not to mention wade's rebound numbers are inflated without 2 seven footers and his assists are inflated due to xbox basketball) but one is the second banana while the other is the leader of his team. i'll take kobe.

QFT!

[An Unbiased Fan]

Both Kobe & Wade's stats are pretty even, however, Kobe & Rose are their team's leading scorer & playmaker. To me that's a tiebreaker, and puts Wade on 2nd team. Wade leads the Heat in only 1 category, and that's blocks(which means very litle because he's averaging 1.1 and is a guard).

[Zasterror]

Both Kobe & Wade's stats are pretty even, however, Kobe & Rose are their team's leading scorer & playmaker. To me that's a tiebreaker, and puts Wade on 2nd team. Wade leads the Heat in only 1 category, and that's blocks(which means very litle because he's averaging 1.1 and is a guard).

1st Team All-NBA has nothing to do with how much a player impacts on his team. It is deciding who are the best player in their position. Wade has been the best guard in the league for a couple of seasons and it hasn't changed. Ignored the stats, if Rose or even Kobe replaced Wade, you really think they would post up the same numbers they have now or even post up Wade's numbers with LeBron on the team? Wade is no 2nd option but LeBron ball dominance will override every player in the league if they came on the team. Wade held his own and outplayed LeBron in half of the games for the Heat, if you have been watching. LeBron is the best player in the league, no one in the league now can outperform him the number of times Wade has.

[Jay24]

soooooo basically the same numbers (not to mention wade's rebound numbers are inflated without 2 seven footers and his assists are inflated due to xbox basketball) but one is the second banana while the other is the leader of his team. i'll take kobe.

Very true. No way Wade rebounds like that if he's playing next to Odom/Bynum/Pau. Plus, his efficiency is boosted by playing next to perhaps the best non-PG play-maker EVER and being the side-kick.

[Chosen01]

I don't know why people bother arguing with Jay24 he is Loki24 a previously banned troll.

I also like how kobe homers are saying Wade is the second banana despite Wade only taking less than .7 shots than Lebron, and has become Heat's ball handler and closing more as of late

[Zasterror]

soooooo basically the same numbers (not to mention wade's rebound numbers are inflated without 2 seven footers and his assists are inflated due to xbox basketball) but one is the second banana while the other is the leader of his team. i'll take kobe.

Very true. No way Wade rebounds like that if he's playing next to Odom/Bynum/Pau. Plus, his efficiency is boosted by playing next to perhaps the best non-PG play-maker EVER and being the side-kick.

Ok so are we just going to pretend that Wade wasn't a great rebounding SG and one of the most efficient players in the league BEFORE LeBron was on the team? You guys are hilarious in trying to nerf Wade's numbers now even when it was predicted to be nerfed when LeBron came on the team. Wade is having a much better year than people credited him for.

[Jay24]

The fact is his efficiency is clearly helped by playing next to LeBron (best non-PG play-maker EVER) and his rebounding wouldn't look so good if he was playing next to Odom/Pau/Bynum. Facts.

[Jay24]

I don't know why people bother arguing with Jay24 he is Loki24 a previously banned troll.

I also like how kobe homers are saying Wade is the second banana despite Wade only taking less than .7 shots than Lebron, and has become Heat's ball handler and closing more as of late

He's clearly the second banana/side-kick. Only Wade homers would deny it.

[Chosen01]

The fact is his efficiency is clearly helped by playing next to LeBron (best non-PG play-maker EVER) and his rebounding wouldn't look so good if he was playing next to Odom/Pau/Bynum. Facts.

Yes because Wade has never averaged higher than 48% /sarcasm (49.2% in 08 49.1 in 07 and was 50% before he was injured and 49.5 in 06)

Yea Wade was so inefficient before LeBron came.Hilarious.

He's clearly the second banana/side-kick. Only Wade homers would deny it.

How can he be the second banana when hes become Heat's closer and LeBron is now playing more off the ball in the clutch, do you hear yourself?they are separated by .6 shots (which was even at .3 a few games ago)Either way being a second banana or first option doesn't play into all first team, as KOBE was a second option in the Shaq years and he still got into the first team because was the best guard in the league, which is what Wade is today.All NBA does not equal MVP, so you can stop all the impact talk.

[Jay24]

The fact is his efficiency is clearly helped by playing next to LeBron (best non-PG play-maker EVER) and his rebounding wouldn't look so good if he was playing next to Odom/Pau/Bynum. Facts.

Yes because Wade has never averaged higher than 48% /sarcasm (49.2% in 08 49.1 in 07 and was 50% before he was injured and 49.5 in 06)

Yea Wade was so inefficient before LeBron came.Hilarious.

He's clearly the second banana/side-kick. Only Wade homers would deny it.

How can he be the second banana when hes become Heat's closer and LeBron is now playing more off the ball in the clutch, do you hear yourself?they are separated by .6 shots (which was even at .3 a few games ago)Either way being a second banana or first option doesn't play into all first team, as KOBE was a second option in the Shaq years and he still got into the first team because was the best guard in the league, which is what Wade is today.All NBA does not equal MVP, so you can stop all the impact talk.

2010 TS%---56%
2011 TS%---58%

IM SURE IT's JUST A COINCIDENCE!

As if playing next to the best non-PG play-maker in the league isn't going to help your efficiency out.

How is he not the second banana/side-kick when LeBron is clearly better? It's really not close. Sorry. He's a side-kick.

And you're delusional if you think the voters won't take that into account considering how close the numbers are.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Both Kobe & Wade's stats are pretty even, however, Kobe & Rose are their team's leading scorer & playmaker. To me that's a tiebreaker, and puts Wade on 2nd team. Wade leads the Heat in only 1 category, and that's blocks(which means very litle because he's averaging 1.1 and is a guard).

1st Team All-NBA has nothing to do with how much a player impacts on his team. It is deciding who are the best player in their position. Wade has been the best guard in the league for a couple of seasons and it hasn't changed. Ignored the stats, if Rose or even Kobe replaced Wade, you really think they would post up the same numbers they have now or even post up Wade's numbers with LeBron on the team? Wade is no 2nd option but LeBron ball dominance will override every player in the league if they came on the team. Wade held his own and outplayed LeBron in half of the games for the Heat, if you have been watching. LeBron is the best player in the league, no one in the league now can outperform him the number of times Wade has.

Of course team impact facotrs into this, how can it not? Otherwise, Kevin Love should be ranked higher than Dirk.

Basketball is a team game, and we rate players not just on individual imapct, but team impact. Both Kobe & Rose have a larger role on their squads, and a much bigger responsiblity. Both Kobe & Rose have to not only score the majority of points for their teams, they also have to set everyone else up. Wade doesn't lead Maimi in anything other than bpg, it's clear that LBJ is the driving force for the Heat, an that Wade is a co-pilot this season.

[Chosen01]

The fact is his efficiency is clearly helped by playing next to LeBron (best non-PG play-maker EVER) and his rebounding wouldn't look so good if he was playing next to Odom/Pau/Bynum. Facts.

Yes because Wade has never averaged higher than 48% /sarcasm (49.2% in 08 49.1 in 07 and was 50% before he was injured and 49.5 in 06)

Yea Wade was so inefficient before LeBron came.Hilarious.

He's clearly the second banana/side-kick. Only Wade homers would deny it.

How can he be the second banana when hes become Heat's closer and LeBron is now playing more off the ball in the clutch, do you hear yourself?they are separated by .6 shots (which was even at .3 a few games ago)Either way being a second banana or first option doesn't play into all first team, as KOBE was a second option in the Shaq years and he still got into the first team because was the best guard in the league, which is what Wade is today.All NBA does not equal MVP, so you can stop all the impact talk.

2010 TS%---56%
2011 TS%---58%

IM SURE IT's JUST A COINCIDENCE!

As if playing next to the best non-PG play-maker in the league isn't going to help your efficiency out.

How is he not the second banana/side-kick when LeBron is clearly better? It's really not close. Sorry. He's a side-kick.

And you're delusional if you think the voters won't take that into account considering how close the numbers are.

Wade was out of shape in the beginning of 10, and really didn't start playing like Wade until post Allstar Break.

2006-07 58.3% highest of his career without LeBron. Yes Wade needs Lebron to be efficient

like I said before impact doesn't play a big part in 1st and 2nd all nba like it does MVP.And by your logic, everyone would be a sidekick to LeBron since hes the best player in the league... no? There is no 1st or second option on the Heat, any heat fan will tell you, especially when you can see their shots differential is a marginal difference. Wade's team has a better record than Kobe's and hes just played better than Kobe this season.

Edit- Anyways I'm done with you, I just did what I said I wouldn't do which is argue with a troll.