Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
there was a video on yt i saw few months back where 09 or 10 wallace manhandled howard on both ends. cant find it now.
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
- thamadkant
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
I'm just going to say it once... so Dwight fans and Magic fans need to get this.
Dwight Howard wouldnt win a DPOY award if he played in the recent era of the elite big men which were prime versions of Olajuwon, Mourning, Robinson, Mutombo, Wallace etc.
Dwight is a very good defender, but he simply wins this award these days because he is the default prime defensive big man.
I dont even think he'd win it over a prime Camby, who grabbed same amount of rebounds as he did but blocked 3.5+ shots a game.
I'm just saying, Dwight is good, but on the record books, people will see his 3 consecutive DPOY and over rate it and say he must of been better than other past centers who only won it once or twice.
All in context....
Dwight Howard wouldnt win a DPOY award if he played in the recent era of the elite big men which were prime versions of Olajuwon, Mourning, Robinson, Mutombo, Wallace etc.
Dwight is a very good defender, but he simply wins this award these days because he is the default prime defensive big man.
I dont even think he'd win it over a prime Camby, who grabbed same amount of rebounds as he did but blocked 3.5+ shots a game.
I'm just saying, Dwight is good, but on the record books, people will see his 3 consecutive DPOY and over rate it and say he must of been better than other past centers who only won it once or twice.
All in context....
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Howard is a Wallace type player(Defensively), he's just not as intimidating and doesn't block as many shots in the lane, create as many turnovers.
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
thamadkant wrote:Dwight Howard wouldnt win a DPOY award if he played in the recent era of the elite big men which were prime versions of Olajuwon, Mourning, Robinson, Mutombo, Wallace etc.
17 years ago is "recent"?
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Dwight has been the Magics defense for years. Ben on the Pistons was part of a stacked defensive squad with a brilliant defensive coach. I don't see the Magics D being any better with Ben than it is with Dwight, but I can certainly imagine Dwight turning those Pistons teams into even more of a defensive monster. This is Howard for me.
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
picc wrote:Dwight has been the Magics defense for years. Ben on the Pistons was part of a stacked defensive squad with a brilliant defensive coach. I don't see the Magics D being any better with Ben than it is with Dwight, but I can certainly imagine Dwight turning those Pistons teams into even more of a defensive monster. This is Howard for me.
How? the best version of the Piston's D was arguably the best defense of all time, they were shattering teams.
People are pretending like the Magic are anything close to the level of the Pistons, and that the difference is only in teammates.... the Pistons were keeping people under 70 on the regular when they traded for Rasheed.
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
People have short memories.
http://www.nba.com/pistons/history/cham ... 00304.html
Yes, The Pistons defense was THAT good
http://www.nba.com/pistons/history/cham ... 00304.html
Not only did the Pistons want to avenge the 2003 Eastern Conference Championship sweep at the hands of the Nets, the Nets also broke the Pistons streak of five consecutive games allowing under 70 points. Though the Nets had lost the game by 18 points, they did so laughing and celebrating on the bench.
Yes, The Pistons defense was THAT good
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Really, no slight on Howard, and maybe Ben wouldn't improve Orlando's D, but how much better could anyone really make the Piston's D at that point? lol
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Prime Rip, Chauncey, Tayshaun, Lindsey Hunter, etc. vs Nelson, Reddick, Hedo, etc. Independent of Howard or Wallace these two teams defensive players are on two different planets. Add in Larry Brown and you have the best defense of all time.
I personally watched Ben Wallace destroy my team in 2004 by himself and get robbed of a finals MVP, and yet I still can't in good conscience give this to him over Howard. Put Dwight on that team and they improve defensively imo, especially if you instruct him to use no energy on offense a la Ben. Those Pistons teams had defensive personnel and coaching lightyears ahead of the Magic.
I personally watched Ben Wallace destroy my team in 2004 by himself and get robbed of a finals MVP, and yet I still can't in good conscience give this to him over Howard. Put Dwight on that team and they improve defensively imo, especially if you instruct him to use no energy on offense a la Ben. Those Pistons teams had defensive personnel and coaching lightyears ahead of the Magic.
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Dwight's impact is much greater than Ben's. Dwight has now done for 6 years what Ben did for about 3, all with less help and a responsibility to shoulder the offense.
One of the reasons Dwight's shot blocking has slipped is because teams have simply stopped attacking the basket when he's in position. He alters the shot of everyone on the opposing team just by being on the floor.
One of the reasons Dwight's shot blocking has slipped is because teams have simply stopped attacking the basket when he's in position. He alters the shot of everyone on the opposing team just by being on the floor.
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
thamadkant wrote:I'm just going to say it once... so Dwight fans and Magic fans need to get this.
Dwight Howard wouldnt win a DPOY award if he played in the recent era of the elite big men which were prime versions of Olajuwon, Mourning, Robinson, Mutombo, Wallace etc.
Dwight is a very good defender, but he simply wins this award these days because he is the default prime defensive big man.
I dont even think he'd win it over a prime Camby, who grabbed same amount of rebounds as he did but blocked 3.5+ shots a game.
I'm just saying, Dwight is good, but on the record books, people will see his 3 consecutive DPOY and over rate it and say he must of been better than other past centers who only won it once or twice.
All in context....
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
picc wrote:Prime Rip, Chauncey, Tayshaun, Lindsey Hunter, etc. vs Nelson, Reddick, Hedo, etc. Independent of Howard or Wallace these two teams defensive players are on two different planets. Add in Larry Brown and you have the best defense of all time.
I personally watched Ben Wallace destroy my team in 2004 by himself and get robbed of a finals MVP, and yet I still can't in good conscience give this to him over Howard. Put Dwight on that team and they improve defensively imo, especially if you instruct him to use no energy on offense a la Ben. Those Pistons teams had defensive personnel and coaching lightyears ahead of the Magic.
QFT
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Johnny Firpo wrote:Jeff23 wrote:+1, was about to say the same thing. He had the likes of Rasheed, Tayshaun and Chauncey around him, not Jameer Nelson, Hedo Turkoglu and Brandon Bass.
Bass is a good defender. Also, we know how good of a one on one defender Dwight is, and we know how good Ben Wallace was. Big Ben was better, better footwork, better hands, it has nothing to do who played besides him, and who plays with Howard.
I would take Ben Wallace too so far, but no Bass isnt a good defender. He doesnt have a high bball IQ that's why he tends to get lost on defensive rotations.
^^
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Big Ben. He had better stats in every defensive category in his prime years, picked up fewer fouls, and was the best help defender in the game.
The Pistons won a championship and went to eight straight ECF's. THAT'S "impact."
The Pistons won a championship and went to eight straight ECF's. THAT'S "impact."
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Manocad wrote:Big Ben. He had better stats in every defensive category in his prime years, picked up fewer fouls, and was the best help defender in the game.
The Pistons won a championship and went to eight straight ECF's. THAT'S "impact."
How do you figure?
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Wallace clocked more STOCKS (stealing the term from Simmons) while Dwight is the better rebounder and more intimidating defensive presence due to his size and athleticism. Dwight's defensive impact > than Big Ben's for his rebounding and intimidating presence.
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
They're pretty close when all is said and done. I believe Dwight is more intimidating because of his size. Ask Dwight to focus on nothing but defending and rebounding and it would be very interesting.
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
Ben was much better overall defender than Howard - but Dwight is still pretty young, so this might change, but as of right now - Ben Wallace was a better defender.
Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
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Re: Is Dwight's defensive impact > Prime Big Ben's?
NO-KG-AI wrote:picc wrote:Dwight has been the Magics defense for years. Ben on the Pistons was part of a stacked defensive squad with a brilliant defensive coach. I don't see the Magics D being any better with Ben than it is with Dwight, but I can certainly imagine Dwight turning those Pistons teams into even more of a defensive monster. This is Howard for me.
How? the best version of the Piston's D was arguably the best defense of all time, they were shattering teams.
People are pretending like the Magic are anything close to the level of the Pistons, and that the difference is only in teammates.... the Pistons were keeping people under 70 on the regular when they traded for Rasheed.
The Pistons D would still have been good without Ben.
Orlando's D, with their current roster, would be garbage without Dwight.*
Dwight, despite being the lesser individual defender, has the bigger impact because he's basically all ORL has. Ben wasn't all DET had. A lesser defender (or player) individually can have a bigger impact, depending on the situation.
For instance, I might think Rose had the biggest impact of any player for his team this season. But at the same time I might think Rose was not the best/most skilled overall player in the NBA this season.
*Granted, this does not account for the probability that without Dwight, ORL likely keeps Gortat. But the fact is they don't have Gortat, or any other credible defensive big, today.
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