RealGM Top 100 List -- 2011

lukekarts · Post #621 » by **lukekarts** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:14 am

Yeah longevity is being overrated somewhat there. Obviously time will tell, but unless they gain some sort of cult following, guys like Reggie Miller are going to fade into obscurity in 50 years time, whilst guys who had more individual greatness - even if they did it for less time, will still be remembered.

I also don't get your logic ref McHale / Reggie. We''re doing this in hindsight, so we can already see that Reggie, who you say 'increases your odds of winning more', doesn't really. His teams were consistently not good enough. Cumulative playoff appearances count for nothing. I'll refer to Bill Walton... 3 years of being a better player equated to more titles. Do you think Blazers fans would swap Bill Walton for Reggie Miller based on the assumption that Reggie's 10 years longer career increases winning odds more?

ElGee · Post #622 » by **ElGee** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:57 pm

lukekarts wrote:I also don't get your logic ref McHale / Reggie. We''re doing this in hindsight, so we can already see that Reggie, who you say 'increases your odds of winning more', doesn't really. His teams were consistently not good enough. Cumulative playoff appearances count for nothing. I'll refer to Bill Walton... 3 years of being a better player equated to more titles. Do you think Blazers fans would swap Bill Walton for Reggie Miller based on the assumption that Reggie's 10 years longer career increases winning odds more?

How do you know Miller doesn't increase of your odds of winning more?

Ask yourself this:
-how much do you think peak Walton increases a random team's odds of winning a title?
-how much do you think prime Miller increases a random team's odds of winning a title?

You will then have your answer. My guess is you are not grasping the difference between results and probability.

AnaheimRoyale · Post #623 » by **AnaheimRoyale** » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:49 pm

So you would take Dan Issel over Bill Walton? Mark Jackson over Penny? Come on, be serious.

AVolumeScorer · Post #624 » by **AVolumeScorer** » Thu Jul 5, 2012 9:59 am

Reading all of these threads have been very fun so far. I'm only up to #10 and I feel my basketball knowledge has already improved alot. Granted, there are some rankings that I don't agree with[Wilt too high, Pippen above Ewing, etc], but I might get my mind changed when I get to those threads

penngcaj · Post #625 » by **penngcaj** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:51 am

Why James ranked so.

PDXKnight · Post #626 » by **PDXKnight** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:30 pm

Dennis Johnson belongs on that list methinks.

AnaheimRoyale · Post #627 » by **AnaheimRoyale** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:32 pm

Not at all sure he does.

ardee · Post #628 » by **ardee** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:41 am

Where would you rank LeBron now?

AnaheimRoyale · Post #629 » by **AnaheimRoyale** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:44 am

Hmm, 10th maybe? He's ahead of Kobe at this juncture, and I have Kobe about 15th.

ShowTimeERA · Post #630 » by **ShowTimeERA** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:48 am

ardee wrote:Where would you rank LeBron now?

At this point, 13-15...A few more titles and he can break the top 10...

JordansBulls · Post #631 » by **JordansBulls** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:53 pm

ShowTimeERA wrote:
ardee wrote:Where would you rank LeBron now?

At this point, 13-15...A few more titles and he can break the top 10...

Who is the first to be replaced in the top 10?

AVolumeScorer · Post #632 » by **AVolumeScorer** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:10 pm

If he wins "a few more titles" he'd probably be over Shaq/Duncan/Kobe/Hakeem for me, assuming Kobe doesn't win any more and LeBron wins finals MVP as the clear number 1 option in all of them

Post #633 » by **mopper8** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:23 pm

With "a few more titles" I don't really see how you keep him out of the top-7 at least, pushing top-5.

With even 2 more titles, he'd have matched Bird's total in that regard, and he's already matched Bird's MVP totals. If he's winning "a few more titles" its hard to imagine him not getting at least1 more MVP.

I mean, again, with "a few more titles" we're talking about likely 4-5 MVPs, 3-4 FMVPs, and a guy who peaked at 30/8/8 and all-league defense. Not saying those things will happen, but if they do, I don't see how he's lower than 5 really.

C-izMe · Post #634 » by **C-izMe** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:00 pm

Lebron already can't top Duncan, Hakeem, or Shaq (5-7). Too many early career failures and the league has gotten pretty weak.

Post #635 » by **mopper8** » Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:52 pm

LOL how are Lebron's "early career failures" hurting him against Shaq (no titles before his 8th season) or Hakeem (no titles before his 10th season)?

Meanwhile, objectively speaking, I'm not sure how you can classify anything prior to his last season in Cleveland as a true failure anyway.

JordansBulls · Post #636 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:03 am

C-izMe wrote:Lebron already can't top Duncan, Hakeem, or Shaq (5-7). Too many early career failures and the league has gotten pretty weak.

Why not? Duncan has lost with HCA 6x, Shaq 4x, Hakeem (only 2x but only had it less than 12 times), Bird 7x, Kareem 5x, Wilt 5x, Magic 3x.

Some of the series where those guys lost with HCA you can excuse but not most of them.

ShowTimeERA · Post #637 » by **ShowTimeERA** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:34 am

JordansBulls wrote:
ShowTimeERA wrote:
ardee wrote:Where would you rank LeBron now?

At this point, 13-15...A few more titles and he can break the top 10...

Who is the first to be replaced in the top 10?

Hakeem. Needs 2 more titles to enter top 10.

Secret Lover14 · Post #638 » by **Secret Lover14** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:07 am

where the eff is Earl "the Pearl" Monroe?

C-izMe · Post #639 » by **C-izMe** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:52 am

mopper8 wrote:LOL how are Lebron's "early career failures" hurting him against Shaq (no titles before his 8th season) or Hakeem (no titles before his 10th season)?

Meanwhile, objectively speaking, I'm not sure how you can classify anything prior to his last season in Cleveland as a true failure anyway.

The fact that Lebron only beat one good team in the PS before joining the Heat is worse than those other guys. Until this year Lebron only had two impressive PS performances overall (2007 & 2009). The other ones weren't really good.
Shaq had a bunch of sweeps (very bad) but he made it to the Finals in the tough East and played great in the Finals. He also had the best peak ever so that helped elevate him.
Hakeem wasn't some sort of failure early on. He even upsetted the Showtime Lakers to get to the Finals (lost to Bird's Celtics). He played in the toughest era in basketball history (the 80s) without a great team and the 90s were dominated by the GOAT until he won. He also peaked higher than Lebron.
I'm not speaking hypothetically but realistically. The league is very weak right now and he's on a team with other HOF players and another top 20-25 player ever. He has also put his best year behind him (it's possible he can top 09 but highly unlikely). If he continues this level of play for a long time he can challenge Hakeem but that's highly unlikely.

JordansBulls · Post #640 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:43 pm

ShowTimeERA wrote:
Hakeem. Needs 2 more titles to enter top 10.

Does he really 2 more titles to get in the top 10 if he has more MVP's than many in the top 10?