RealGM Top 100 List #15

[penbeast0]

RULES:
There will be a zero tolerance, one strike policy. If ANY poster is interrupting any of the threads in a negative way, OR causing any problems they're ability to vote will be taken away.

Criteria: Take into account both peak and career play, era dominance, impact on the game of basketball, and how well their style of play and skills would transcend onto different eras. To be more exact, how great they were at playing the game of basketball.

Voting Will End In 2 Days

Please vote and nominate

Newest addition:

Rick Barry

* NBA Champion (1975)
* NBA Finals MVP (1975)
* 5× All-NBA First Team Selection
* 1× All-NBA Second Team Selection
* 4× All-ABA 1st Team Selection
* Rookie of the Year (1966)
* NBA All-Star Game MVP (1967)
* 12× All-Star (8 NBA, 4 ABA)
* Voted to the HOF in 1987


Walt Frazier

* NBA Champion (1970, 1973)
* 4× All-NBA First Team Selection
* 2× All-NBA Second Team Selection
* 7x 1st Team All-Defense
* NBA All-Star Game MVP (1975)
* 7× All-Star
* Voted to the HOF in 1987

Dwyane Wade

NBA Champion (2006)
7x NBA All-Star
2x All-NBA First Team
3 All-NBA Second Team
1x All-NBA Third Team
3x All-NBA Defensive Second Team
2010 All-Star Game MVP
2006 NBA Finals MVP

Bob Pettit

NBA Champion (1958)
2× NBA MVP (1956, 1959)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1956, 1958–1959, 1962)
11× NBA All-Star (1955–1965)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1955)
10× All-NBA First Team (1955–1964)
All-NBA Second Team (1965)
2× NBA Scoring Champion (1957, 1959)
NBA 25th Anniversary Team
NBA 35th Anniversary Team
NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

David Robinson

2× NBA Champion (1999,2003)
NBA MVP (1995)
4x All-NBA 1st Team
2x All-NBA 2nd Team
4x All-NBA 3rd Team
4x All-NBA 1st Team
NBA DPOY (1992)
4x NBA All-Defense 1st Team
4x NBA All-Defense 2nd Team
NBA ROY (1990)
10x All-Star

Dirk Nowitzki

# NBA MVP (2007)
# NBA Champion (2011)
# NBA Finals MVP (2011)
# 4x All-NBA 1st Team
# 5x All-NBA 2nd Team
# 2x All-NBA 3rd Team
# 10x NBA All-Star

Charles Barkley

# NBA MVP (1991)
# 5x 1st Team All-NBA
# 5x 2nd Team All-NBA
# 1x 3rd Team All-NBA
# 11 times All-Star
# All-Star MVP 1991
# Hall of Fame 2006

LeBron James

# 2x NBA MVP (2009-2010)
# 5x All-NBA First Team Selection (2006-2011)
# 2x All-NBA Second Team Selection (2005-2006)
# 3x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (2009-2011)
# Rookie of the Year (2004)
# 7x All-Star
# 2xNBA All-Star Game MVP (2006, 2008)

Jerry West

* NBA Champion (1972)
* NBA Finals MVP (1969)
* 14× All-Star (1961-1974)
* NBA All-Star Game MVP (1972)
* 10× All-NBA First Team Selection (1962-1967, 1970-1973)
* 2× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1968-1969)
* 4X NBA All-Defense Team Selection (1970-1973)
* 1X NBA All-Defense Team Selection (1969)
* Voted to the Hall of Fame in 1980
* NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Moses Malone

* 1x NBA Champion 1983 Philadelphia 76ers (NBA)
* 3x MVP (1979, 1982, 1983)
* 12x NBA All-Star (1978-1989), 1x ABA All-Star (1975)
* 4x All-NBA First Team Selection (1979, 1982, 1983, 1985)
* 4x All-NBA Second Team Selection (1980, 1981, 1984, 1987)
* 1x NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1983)
* 1x NBA All-Defensive 2nd Team Selection (1979)
* 1x NBA Finals MVP (1983)
* All Rookie Team (ABA 1975)
* Basketball HOF Player (2001)

[penbeast0]

Doctor MJ has left a list:

He is voting for JERRY WEST

He is nomination STEVE NASH

[penbeast0]

As for me, I have narrowed down my vote to Moses Malone or Jerry West. Relative to Moses, West was much more consistently a great scorer, Moses was only dominant for a relatively short stretch though he remained a rebounding force throughout his career. Subtract for Moses's weak passing and shotblocking, add credit for his longevity and work ethic (center on my all sweat team) . . . tough call but I vote Jerry West here

As for the nomination, I still favor Artis Gilmore over Patrick Ewing by a little though Dwight Howard is intriguing and I'd like to see comparisom between the three of them by someone else.

At forward, I have Baylor and Pippen over Havlicek (even for his day, much weaker efficiency and passing than Pippen with similar defense though Hondo's leadership and team ethic blows Pippen's away). These two are about as different as any two greats to ever play the same position but I have a decided preference for 2-way players who play great defense to I give it to Scottie.

Clyde Drexler is the greatest SG left, Gary Payton the greatest PG (GOAT defense, very good scoring and playmaking, mentally tough guy). Between the two I'd take Payton, he just seemed to be more dominant on those very good Seattle teams. Again, I can see switching if someone makes a good case for the Glide.

Between Gilmore, Pippen, and Payton it is hard to compare. I think I will go for Scottie Pippen despite some reservations. 6 rings is the tiebreaker.

VOTE: JERRY WEST

NOMINATE: SCOTTIE PIPPEN (but am open to change)

[JordansBulls]

I can't believe Moses Malone has slipped this much.

Vote: Moses Malone - Won 3 MVP's, was on one of the greatest teams ever outplaying everyone that season.
Nominate: Clyde Drexler

[Pistol Pete Vescey]

V: West
N: Pippen

[Fencer reregistered]

There are numerous SFs who could reasonably be voted on over Barry, so I favor a run of nominating them.

Nominee: Pippen. (I'd happily flip to Hondo if more momentum builds for him. I'm distressed that he tied for the lead two rounds ago and still isn't on the list.)

I'll watch the West/Malone discussion before voting.

[Laimbeer]

I can't believe Moses Malone has slipped this much.

I can't either. And he or West will not make the Top 15. I'm inclined to go West, but Moses has a great case and I want to see the discussion.

Surprised how Barry came out of nowhere and grabbed a nomination. Hondo and Baylor are still there, interested to see who gets traction. Pippen is coming up, but he's a second banana, so I'm shakey on that one.

Waitin' and readin'....

[DocHoops]

Worthy of Consideration...


Moses Malone (Center - Utah (ABA), St. Louis (ABA), Houston, Philadelphia, Washington, Atlanta, Milwaukee)
Historical Significance: First High School player to play in the NBA, one of seven players (Russ, Wilt, KAJ, Jordan, Bird, Magic) with 3 or more MVP awards, led 1983 76ers to a 12-1 playoff record and the NBA title.
Upside: Best offensive rebounder of the post-merger era if not all-time. Six-time rebounding Champion. Outplayed Abdul-Jabbar (other dominate center during his peak) in both playoff series match-ups.
Downside: Peak ended abruptly. His teams were just 9-11 in the postseason during his prime seasons. Average defensively, not a shot blocker.


Jerry West (Guard - Minneapolis/Los Angeles)
Historical Significance: The NBA Logo is his silhouette. One of the five superstars that led the NBA from obscurity to prominence in the 1960's. Played in NBA Finals; only player to win finals MVP while playing on losing team.
Upside: 10x All-NBA first team (tied for second all-time). Among the elite defensive guards of his era. Led the league in both scoring and assists in separate seasons.
Downside: His teams were just 1-8 in the NBA Finals. Never won a title as his teams best player. Only one of these four players to never win an MVP.


Bob Pettit - (Forward - Milwaukee/St. Louis)
Historical Significance: Winner of the NBA's first official MVP award. One of four players ever to average 20 points and 20 rebounds per game for an entire season. Led Hawks to 1958 NBA title scoring 50 points in Finals clinching game six.
Upside: 10x All-NBA first team (tied 2nd all-time). 2x MVP (1956, 1959). Won two scoring title and averaged at least 25 points and 15 rebounds per game for nine straight seasons between 1956 and 1964.
Downside: Star was dimmed by new generation of players like Russell, Baylor and Wilt. Questionable how his game would translate to different eras (if your into that kind of thing). His teams were just 8-8 in playoff series during his 11 year career.

[Laimbeer]

I'd happily flip to Hondo if more momentum builds for him. I'm distressed that he tied for the lead two rounds ago and still isn't on the list.)

He has really taken quite a tumble, and I'm in agreement he should be on by now.

[penbeast0]

While I am also thinking West and Moses need to go in now, as soon as that is done, I'm very interested in seeing what happens with LeBron, DRob, and Pettit.

[ElGee]

Vote: LeBron James
Nominate: Steve Nash

[cpower]

Vote:Jerry West
Nomination: John Havlicek

[Laimbeer]

I'm wondering what thoughts are on Chris Paul. He's one year younger than LeBron, and a lot of posters here think he's already performed at an all-time great level for points. Since this is more about peaks, wonder when he'll get mentions.

[ElGee]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9840

Note the 6-year consecutive prime of LeBron James. Again, this is not a definitive statement about player quality/worth, but to point out to people who really don't realize how many great seasons he's *already* had relative to the remaining players on our list. That's why I'm pretty comfortable with an easy James vote at 15. (Hard for me to twist up a Jerry West argument, but at least that's within reason bc of the era difference.)

Even in the career standings, giving Moses solid credit for some of his lackluster (but statistically plentiful) later seasons, he's only about 1.5 prime James seasons better.

I guess the difference between Moses here (and going over James) and Moses behind this pod of guys is how high one holds his second half of the 80s, no? I just don't value these seasons very much...but maybe others do. Why?

[Laimbeer]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9840

Note the 6-year consecutive prime of LeBron James. Again, this is not a definitive statement about player quality/worth, but to point out to people who really don't realize how many great seasons he's *already* had relative to the remaining players on our list. That's why I'm pretty comfortable with an easy James vote at 15. (Hard for me to twist up a Jerry West argument, but at least that's within reason bc of the era difference.)

Even in the career standings, giving Moses solid credit for some of his lackluster (but statistically plentiful) later seasons, he's only about 1.5 prime James seasons better.

I guess the difference between Moses here (and going over James) and Moses behind this pod of guys is how high one holds his second half of the 80s, no? I just don't value these seasons very much...but maybe others do. Why?

Paul has the only two seasons for a point in the top 40 if I read that correctly.

[mysticbb]

Even in the career standings, giving Moses solid credit for some of his lackluster (but statistically plentiful) later seasons, he's only about 1.5 prime James seasons better.

Moses Malone's best 6 year stretch was from 1978/79 to 1983/84 with 110.99 in that metric.

I guess the difference between Moses here (and going over James) and Moses behind this pod of guys is how high one holds his second half of the 80s, no? I just don't value these seasons very much...but maybe others do. Why?

Well, would you make an argument for Nowitzki over Moses Malone in an All-Time Ranking?

[FJS]

Vote Moses Malone
Nomination John Stockton

[Dr Positivity]

Wow I didn't expect Oscar to beat West. That's like Bird beating Magic, I mean it's not necessarily wrong, but usually Magic and West win that one.

Vote: West
Nominate: Baylor

This will probably be West vs Moses. I prefer West as a player due to his scoring, playmaking and ability to facilitate while Moses is a finisher, like a better version of Dwight's offensive game. Moses has rebounding but I'd rather have West

My real nomination would be for Ewing but nobody's voting for him. So I'll go with a guy who's in contention, Elgin Baylor. Had an AWESOME first 5 years, he was well on his way to matching West and Oscar for that era. After the knee surgery he was still a top 6-7 player and superstar. I think between his peak and then later great years, it's time for Elgin to be nominated and join his superstar peers

[Gongxi]

Moses and West have interesting arguments, but I think LeBron is going to get my nod here. Baylor for the nomination, of course.

[Baller 24]

No love for Ewing? I'm starting to feel he's very underrated.