Better Career: Wade or Lebron?

[bigrussia]

so your're evaluating players based on luck, which is completely pointless....

[Doormatt]

It seems a lot of people's justification for putting wade over lebron is finals performances, which is just quite ridiculous imo.

[JordansBulls]

It seems a lot of people's justification for putting wade over lebron is finals performances, which is just quite ridiculous imo.

It may be if Lebron played well in them as well but still lost. Wade thus far has played quite well in both finals he has been in while Lebron has played pretty bad in both of his.

[Kobe 24 Revis]

so your're evaluating players based on luck, which is completely pointless....

more like based on mental toughness, which Lebron doesnt have

[bigrussia]

so your're evaluating players based on luck, which is completely pointless....

more like based on mental toughness, which Lebron doesnt have

convo was about which career a player would rather have. picc said he values wades career more for getting a ring... but many players would choose the horry career path of winning many rings as a clutch and solid role player. while he said and it is their prerogative, said players careers are based on luck, which is a terrible way of evaluating players. mental toughness had nothing to do w/ that.

as for lebron's supposed 'mental weakness', he played poorly against the mavs (after killing the bulls + celtics) and had that awful game 5 (w/ a possible excuse). overall he still executes very well in the playoffs (and over his career has still played > wade in the playoffs) and has been the most clutch player in the league for a while by a significant margin. can't consider his performance against the spurs as a negative considering his team and that that was a series that his team wouldn't have even been in if he hadn't beaten the pistons, winning as an large underdog, something wade has never done

[DaPerception]

as for lebron's supposed 'mental weakness', he played poorly against the mavs (after killing the bulls + celtics) and had that awful game 5 (w/ a possible excuse). overall he still executes very well in the playoffs (and over his career has still played > wade in the playoffs) and has been the most clutch player in the league for a while by a significant margin. can't consider his performance against the spurs as a negative considering his team and that that was a series that his team wouldn't have even been in if he hadn't beaten the pistons, winning as an large underdog, something wade has never done

Except he was the underdog in the 2006 NBA finals and then he put on a legendary performnace after being down 0-2 and down by 10+ points at the end of the 4th in game 3.

That series was head and shoulders above any series LeBron had. I have high doubts that LeBron in 2006 could do what Wade did in 2006. Wade was just better then.

Wade has been underappreciated his entire career. He will probably get the Hakeem Olajwuon treatment after he retires or as soon as is in the twilight of his career and everybody will be like damn, he was a really amazing player.

Wade is the Hakeem Olajuwon of this era while LeBron is more like David Robinson

[bigrussia]

while that heat team was a bit worse than the mavs, that series is a complete joke. worse calls in modern nba history (along w/ the 02 lakers/kings, although that was 1 game as opposed to a series)

[Chosen01]

so your're evaluating players based on luck, which is completely pointless....

more like based on mental toughness, which Lebron doesnt have

convo was about which career a player would rather have. picc said he values wades career more for getting a ring... but many players would choose the horry career path of winning many rings as a clutch and solid role player. while he said and it is their prerogative, said players careers are based on luck, which is a terrible way of evaluating players. mental toughness had nothing to do w/ that.

as for lebron's supposed 'mental weakness', he played poorly against the mavs (after killing the bulls + celtics) and had that awful game 5 (w/ a possible excuse). overall he still executes very well in the playoffs (and over his career has still played > wade in the playoffs) and has been the most clutch player in the league for a while by a significant margin. can't consider his performance against the spurs as a negative considering his team and that that was a series that his team wouldn't have even been in if he hadn't beaten the pistons, winning as an large underdog, something wade has never done

Realgm= what have you done for me lately and LeBron choked in finals that what will people will remember first. Also your continuous bringing up the 2006 "refs" show you're grasping for straws.

The point remains that Wade played Jordan-esqe in both finals (save for game 6 in the '11 ones) while LeBron hasn't lived up to his potential in his finals.

[bigrussia]

as for lebron's supposed 'mental weakness', he played poorly against the mavs (after killing the bulls + celtics) and had that awful game 5 (w/ a possible excuse). overall he still executes very well in the playoffs (and over his career has still played > wade in the playoffs) and has been the most clutch player in the league for a while by a significant margin. can't consider his performance against the spurs as a negative considering his team and that that was a series that his team wouldn't have even been in if he hadn't beaten the pistons, winning as an large underdog, something wade has never done

Realgm= what have you done for me lately and LeBron choked in finals that what will people will remember first. Also your continuous bringing up the 2006 "refs" show you're grasping for straws.

The point remains that Wade played Jordan-esqe in both finals (save for game 6 in the '11 ones) while LeBron hasn't lived up to his potential in his finals.

cherry picking 2 series (1 of which his team had no business being in) instead of looking at overall playoff play is dumb....

holding lebron 07 finals against him is garbage, a sweep was pretty much expected (a series his team shouldn't have even played in, unless he tore up the pistons for 26, 9, 8.5 on 45% and that ridiculous performance in game 5)...

as for 'grasping at straws' w/ the refs, just cause its ugly doesn't make it false. he averaged 16 ft's a game, and while he is aggressive, way to many of those call (and especially in crucial moments) were a complete joke. everyone accepts the 02 kings/lakers game as being garbage, this was an entire series...

like i said lebron did relatively vanish against the mavs (after killing the bulls + celts, and he played nearly as good as wade did against the bulls in the finals - w/ better defense for most of the series) and had a strange game against the celts (w/ a possible excuse). that doesn't make him a poor playoff performer given everything else he's done (such as the monster 09 run)

a better argument for wade is that he constantly plays better than lebron against elite defenses (sort of the opposite of what happened in this years playoffs).

[Chosen01]

Doesn't really matter, LeBron got swept yes but he played abysmal in the finals, if he had played similar to how he played the previous series Detroit but came short no one would even bring up that series.

You ARE grasping for straws, Wade played the refs to his advantage but it wasn't like he was the one calling it so to CONTINOUS bring it up shows you really have no real argument, I like how you don't mention that Dirk also shot 20+ fts in the series before (spurs). Regardless, Wade came through for the Heat big time in game 3 that was the turning point of which he showed he was a great finals performer, Wade was mostly driving but he was also making 3s, mid range shots every where.

The difference between Chicago Wade and Mavs LeBron is that Wade came through in the clutch against Chicago while LeBron was pretty much playing passive against Dallas.

Wouldn't say its opposite this year as Wade averaged great numbers against the #2 defense Boston and #7 defense Mavs and #8 defense Sixers, Chicago was the only elite defense that Wade has struggled against in his career when healthy and that tells you something, and even then he still brought it in the closing minutes of the 4th in that series.

[picc]

convo was about which career a player would rather have. picc said he values wades career more for getting a ring... but many players would choose the horry career path of winning many rings as a clutch and solid role player. while he said and it is their prerogative, said players careers are based on luck, which is a terrible way of evaluating players. mental toughness had nothing to do w/ that.

Wade and Horry both have rings but they have not had similar careers....because one is a superstar player and the other is a role player. I value Wade's ring and finals appearances more than Lebron's career because Wade is a comparably good player who has been leader or co-leader of his teams, and has a ring as the best player. The "Robert Horry" argument is not applicable to this debate.

Other players may not choose Horry's career over Lebrons because Horry was a role player. They would choose Wade's over Lebron's because he has actually led his teams as a superstar player.

[bigrussia]

well i think its too hard to determine b/c many good to great players might want the rings (especially since 7 of them is pretty damn amazing in the modern era, even if you are a stud role player). as for wades career over lebrons, would rather be the best in the league for a long stretch, or get very lucky and win a ring

You ARE grasping for straws, Wade played the refs to his advantage but it wasn't like he was the one calling it so to CONTINOUS bring it up shows you really have no real argument, I like how you don't mention that Dirk also shot 20+ fts in the series before (spurs). Regardless, Wade came through for the Heat big time in game 3 that was the turning point of which he showed he was a great finals performer, Wade was mostly driving but he was also making 3s, mid range shots every where.

as good as he played, he didn't play good enough to win w/o a TON of bs happening. he was on the worse team, the heat would've lost w/o that nonsense
you say its noy an argument but what about kings/lakers 02?? its a reality that has to be accounted for in evaluations
and no it's not his fault that the refs have a huge lovefest for him, but it is a reality of the game. not to mention wades awful flopping
"dirk shot 20+ fts in the spurs series"... in 1 game maybe, but not average....

[jagz]

as for lebron's supposed 'mental weakness', he played poorly against the mavs (after killing the bulls + celtics) and had that awful game 5 (w/ a possible excuse). overall he still executes very well in the playoffs (and over his career has still played > wade in the playoffs) and has been the most clutch player in the league for a while by a significant margin. can't consider his performance against the spurs as a negative considering his team and that that was a series that his team wouldn't have even been in if he hadn't beaten the pistons, winning as an large underdog, something wade has never done

Realgm= what have you done for me lately and LeBron choked in finals that what will people will remember first. Also your continuous bringing up the 2006 "refs" show you're grasping for straws.

The point remains that Wade played Jordan-esqe in both finals (save for game 6 in the '11 ones) while LeBron hasn't lived up to his potential in his finals.

cherry picking 2 series (1 of which his team had no business being in) instead of looking at overall playoff play is dumb....

holding lebron 07 finals against him is garbage, a sweep was pretty much expected (a series his team shouldn't have even played in, unless he tore up the pistons for 26, 9, 8.5 on 45% and that ridiculous performance in game 5)...

as for 'grasping at straws' w/ the refs, just cause its ugly doesn't make it false. he averaged 16 ft's a game, and while he is aggressive, way to many of those call (and especially in crucial moments) were a complete joke. everyone accepts the 02 kings/lakers game as being garbage, this was an entire series...

like i said lebron did relatively vanish against the mavs (after killing the bulls + celts, and he played nearly as good as wade did against the bulls in the finals - w/ better defense for most of the series) and had a strange game against the celts (w/ a possible excuse). that doesn't make him a poor playoff performer given everything else he's done (such as the monster 09 run)

a better argument for wade is that he constantly plays better than lebron against elite defenses (sort of the opposite of what happened in this years playoffs).

Cherry-picking? LeBron has had two terrible Finals, one of which he had no chance to win, but he still did nothing to even make competitive. And he has two terrible series against the Celtics-- 08 where he shot 36% and averaged 6 TOs and '10 when he quit. That's four high-profile playoff "failures" in six years of playoff play. That's pretty significant.

Wade has two playoff "failures", I guess. One was when he was playing with an unrehabbed torn shoulder in 07 and this year against the Bulls where he averaged 19 ppg and shot 41% (as opposed to James, Bryant, Rose etc. who shoot around 35% in their bad series), AND he made huge plays in the clutch of three of the four wins.

But, Wade also has a rather legendary playoff resume for his first three years, has three series shooting over 55% (06 Pistons-- 62%; 10 Celtics-- 56%; 11 Mavs-- 55%; James has none), and against the two most dominat defenses of this generation, the mid-decade Pistons and the late-decade Celtics, his playoff averages his averages are 26 ppg, 53% shooting vs. the Pistons (13 games) and 31.5 ppg, 54.5% shooting vs. the Celtics (10 games). He is simply a better playoff performer than LeBron, if you at all know how to evaluate postseason play.

[bigrussia]

Cherry-picking? LeBron has had two terrible Finals, one of which he had no chance to win, but he still did nothing to even make competitive. And he has two terrible series against the Celtics-- 08 where he shot 36% and averaged 6 TOs and '10 when he quit. That's four high-profile playoff "failures" in six years of playoff play. That's pretty significant.

there hasn't been anything to suggest this isn't just an instance of their play against elite defenses (and lebron seems to be improving in this area)/ not to mention lebrons superior rebounding/defense/passing.

lebron constantly plays w/ ill-equip teams and then everyones surprises when he loses...
you hold lebrons 07 finals against him after he kills the pistons. look at that team, the only players who had any business playing in the finals would be varejao (/illgauskas (shooting a great 35%) and gooden)
the cavs almost won the 08 series (which would have been a ridiculous upset) and lebron played much better as the series went on.
the 10 series? that was 1 game (w/ a possible excuse)....i don't count that as a 'high profile playoff failure"
as for his failure in the 11 finals, he put up good stats, he just didn't shoot enough (and played great defense for most of the series) (still lebrons 1st season on a whole new team)

i would argue neither has won/loss more series overall then they should've over the course of their career (wade has always played very well, but his team has performed to expectations w/ a great run in 06 that should've ended in the finals, while lebron's scoring fluctuates). if you say wades a better playoff performer, i would say that his possible 'slight' edge would be in scoring against elite defense, while lebron does everything else better and has consistently been the better regular season player

[Precision9]

I'm going to go against the flow here and say that Wade has had the better career (which is different than stating who the better player is), if for no other reason than his teams having more success with him at the helm. Does anything else really matter? The objective of most players is to win an NBA Championship, and Wade has done that in dominating fashion. He is a better "winning time" performer than LeBron, and that's why he's a champion and LeBron isn't. The last two years have very much solidified that fact.

I'm pretty sure if both of their careers ended Wade would feel a bit more satisfied than LeBron, regardless of whether LeBron is or isn't the better regular season player.

Edit: Nevermind. Using money or promotions wasn't a great way to explain my point since it depends on the goal of the player involved.

Yeah I agree with this guy, a.k.a the smartest poster on RealGM.

[aurareturn1]

Stop trolling everyone. Lebron has had a better career.

[JordansBulls]

I'm going to go against the flow here and say that Wade has had the better career (which is different than stating who the better player is), if for no other reason than his teams having more success with him at the helm. Does anything else really matter? The objective of most players is to win an NBA Championship, and Wade has done that in dominating fashion. He is a better "winning time" performer than LeBron, and that's why he's a champion and LeBron isn't. The last two years have very much solidified that fact.

I'm pretty sure if both of their careers ended Wade would feel a bit more satisfied than LeBron, regardless of whether LeBron is or isn't the better regular season player.

Edit: Nevermind. Using money or promotions wasn't a great way to explain my point since it depends on the goal of the player involved.

Yeah I agree with this guy, a.k.a the smartest poster on RealGM.

You brought this up to say this?

[Bank Shot]

To me the accolades are similar enough (obviously LeBron has more individual ones but I give Wade a lot of credit for that run) so I will give it to the better player. LeBron.

[nykballa2k4]

Wade and it is easy. MVP's are bogus to me. Popularity contests don't tell me anything more than who the NBA WANTS ME to watch. Wade has hardware, finals MVP. If LeBron gets any rings, it is because of Wade. Wade was so great he brought TWO stars to play for HIS team. You want to talk about stats rather than results go ahead, but Wade actually WON something. Plus was a better Olympic performer.

[semi-sentient]

I'm going to go against the flow here and say that Wade has had the better career (which is different than stating who the better player is), if for no other reason than his teams having more success with him at the helm. Does anything else really matter? The objective of most players is to win an NBA Championship, and Wade has done that in dominating fashion. He is a better "winning time" performer than LeBron, and that's why he's a champion and LeBron isn't. The last two years have very much solidified that fact.

I'm pretty sure if both of their careers ended Wade would feel a bit more satisfied than LeBron, regardless of whether LeBron is or isn't the better regular season player.

Edit: Nevermind. Using money or promotions wasn't a great way to explain my point since it depends on the goal of the player involved.

Yeah I agree with this guy, a.k.a the smartest poster on RealGM.

You brought this up to say this?

He makes an excellent point though.