Cassell & Garnett or Payton & Kemp

[ThunderDan9]

Good comparison.

I would probably choose Payton/Kemp. Kemp in his prime was pretty awesome on his own right. Of course, not at Garnett's level, but still very good. And they had a great chemistry with Payton, they went to the Finals in 96 etc. A proven combination. But to be fair, it seems like they had a better supporting cast (Schrempf, Hawkins, elderly Sam Perkins) than KG & Cassell had when they reached the WCF. Still, Kemp played great in the playoffs, even in the Finals against the mighty "72-10" Bulls.

[Snakebites]

As long as we aren't assuming KG has poorly constructed supporting casts while Kemp/Payton got Schrempf, Hawkins, Perkins etc, I think you have to go with Garnett.

I do definitely believe KG is becoming overrated (with people having him in the their top 10s, even as high as 8th all time), but he's still the best player in this crew pretty handily, and Cassell is a great player who proved, even somewhat past his prime, that he could play effectively alongside Garnett.

Garnett is also the only one of the group who offers anything resembling an anchor for the defense down low, so that makes this an even easier call.

[tsherkin]

See, I understand that KG might be the best player in this discussion at his prime BUT GP is a HOF type pg. Kemp was also a superstar in his day. I think that GP could probably shut down Cassel, meanwhile Kemp would do well against KG. Gary would also dominate Cassel on the other end. Also, I go by successes. KG always had a good pg on his team.

That is why GP and Kemp are better imo

Kemp was never a superstar, he was "just" an All-Star, and GP was a very good player, but when you're stacking him against another DPOY who was also one of the best passing bigs in league history and also a rebounding champion and mid-20s scorer (more than Payton, often), it's hard to justify GP as the guy you take over him.

And no, Payton couldn't shut down Cassell. Look at their head-to-heads; when Cassell was starting, he seemed to do just fine against Payton... and that was without the benefit of Kevin Garnett on his team.

[Dr Positivity]

Cassell and KG

[Clangus]

Payton and Kemp.
Yes KG is the best player, but i don't think the gap between him and either GP or Kemp is as large as the gap between Cassell and the worse of Kemp/Payton.

Payton won DPOY 1996 and was 9 time all defensive first team. He led the league in assists one year and Steals another. I think you are under selling GP by alot. His scoring was very solid too.

Its interesting how nostalgia effects people rating Garnett IMO its only because he is still playing.

[Doormatt]

or maybe its because everything else is saying KG is a much better player.

[-Kees-]

I love Cassell, and I think some people might be forgetting that he was All-NBA 2nd Team his first year in Minny, but I gotta go with Payton/Kemp. Kemp was a monster when he was on track, 20/11 in his prime, very good rebounder, good efficiency (56% FG, 63% TS), underrated defender, and good post up player. He could play C from the PF because of his rebounding, and often did with Perkins out on the perimeter. I don't see that from KG. Now, I'm not saying Kemp is better, but I think prime GP is a damn good defensive anchor as well, and his DPOY proves that.

Kemp/Payton

[nykballa2k4]

See, I understand that KG might be the best player in this discussion at his prime BUT GP is a HOF type pg. Kemp was also a superstar in his day. I think that GP could probably shut down Cassel, meanwhile Kemp would do well against KG. Gary would also dominate Cassel on the other end. Also, I go by successes. KG always had a good pg on his team.

That is why GP and Kemp are better imo

Kemp was never a superstar, he was "just" an All-Star, and GP was a very good player, but when you're stacking him against another DPOY who was also one of the best passing bigs in league history and also a rebounding champion and mid-20s scorer (more than Payton, often), it's hard to justify GP as the guy you take over him.

And no, Payton couldn't shut down Cassell. Look at their head-to-heads; when Cassell was starting, he seemed to do just fine against Payton... and that was without the benefit of Kevin Garnett on his team.

I went looking for those stats, I don't know where to find them though.
And I think Kemp was a superstar in the same sense Amare was with PHX. Lastly, KG's defense was not always this good. He has gotten better as he has gotten older in terms of team defense. So his prime he would get blocks, but, to again use Amare as an example, they would just be because he jumped out, not because of great positioning. Flip Saunders didn't do much to help the Timberpups on defense.

[Dr Pepper]

I gotta go with Payton/Kemp. They played great together and imo have much more talent together than the other combo of Cassell/KG. Hard to pass up two stars that work well alongside eachother. But Kemp's decline was pretty significant

[mitchco]

See, I understand that KG might be the best player in this discussion at his prime BUT GP is a HOF type pg. Kemp was also a superstar in his day. I think that GP could probably shut down Cassel, meanwhile Kemp would do well against KG. Gary would also dominate Cassel on the other end. Also, I go by successes. KG always had a good pg on his team.

That is why GP and Kemp are better imo

Kemp was never a superstar, he was "just" an All-Star, and GP was a very good player, but when you're stacking him against another DPOY who was also one of the best passing bigs in league history and also a rebounding champion and mid-20s scorer (more than Payton, often), it's hard to justify GP as the guy you take over him.

And no, Payton couldn't shut down Cassell. Look at their head-to-heads; when Cassell was starting, he seemed to do just fine against Payton... and that was without the benefit of Kevin Garnett on his team.

I went looking for those stats, I don't know where to find them though.
And I think Kemp was a superstar in the same sense Amare was with PHX. Lastly, KG's defense was not always this good. He has gotten better as he has gotten older in terms of team defense. So his prime he would get blocks, but, to again use Amare as an example, they would just be because he jumped out, not because of great positioning. Flip Saunders didn't do much to help the Timberpups on defense.

I wasn't sure where to look either, but I did manage to google a few. Pretty much everyone I saw had GP coming out on top. To echo a previous poster I also think GP is being kind of forgotten about here. He's a top 7 (arguably higher) PG in NBA history and a HOFer. I'm actually a pretty big Cassell fan too. IMO he's underrated. Had his Rocket's jersey when I was younger. But he was never on the same level as GP.

And I also disagree about Kemp being a superstar. I grew up in the mid-west, and I saw more people wearing Kemp jerseys than I did Barkley or Malone. And Kemp was constantly putting up great numbers against those guys in the Playoffs. If Shawn was that big in St.Louis, where there was no NBA team, I'd hate to see how popular he was in NBA cities. There's no reason to think he couldn't do well against KG. He had the size, strength, and athletic ability along with a decent jumper, good rebounding and solid D. Shawn just wasn't always the smartest. I think it would be a good matchup, but I'm going with GP/Kemp. The Sonic Boom.

[That Nicka]

I like Payton/Kemp here.. probly biased, Payton is one of my favorite players.. but while I know KG is better than Payton, I think Kemp is a lot better than Cassell (although I know Cassell was great in the early-mid 00s for the Bucks, TWolves, Clippers etc)

[schaffy]

I went looking for those stats, I don't know where to find them though.
And I think Kemp was a superstar in the same sense Amare was with PHX. Lastly, KG's defense was not always this good. He has gotten better as he has gotten older in terms of team defense. So his prime he would get blocks, but, to again use Amare as an example, they would just be because he jumped out, not because of great positioning. Flip Saunders didn't do much to help the Timberpups on defense.

really wasnt that hard to find at all. http://bkref.com/tiny/hcpXF

And from your description of Garnetts defense, I assume you did not watch him play very often, except maybe in All-star games. Really, Amare as a comparison?

[nykballa2k4]

I went looking for those stats, I don't know where to find them though.
And I think Kemp was a superstar in the same sense Amare was with PHX. Lastly, KG's defense was not always this good. He has gotten better as he has gotten older in terms of team defense. So his prime he would get blocks, but, to again use Amare as an example, they would just be because he jumped out, not because of great positioning. Flip Saunders didn't do much to help the Timberpups on defense.

really wasnt that hard to find at all. http://bkref.com/tiny/hcpXF

And from your description of Garnetts defense, I assume you did not watch him play very often, except maybe in All-star games. Really, Amare as a comparison?

I will give you the comparison is an exaggeration. KG always followed his man rather than the ball, but I feel like his TEAM defense has gotten better since being a celtic. I remember him and Tragic Johnson, him and Rasho etc as wolves and I don't remember the same defensive captain which he is today. Perhaps in his later years with the Wolves, when Flip left. KG was a plus defender always whereas Amare is varying degrees of a negative.

It is hard to say what Sam Cassels peak was as a player because he was always on the low end of athleticism, probably his best days were as a Buck, Kg's best were when he was WITH Cassel. I see the vacuum angle on how Kg+Cassel might be better, but the results have played out, I can't vote against a proven tandem.

[bastillon]

results played out ? you mean Cassell got injured and Garnett was their point guard in the WCF and that somehow "played out" ? really ?

'Amare is a comparison' really consumed all of your legitimacy. there's actually statistical evidence that KG was always that good on defense. pretty much the scenario was that once KG was off the floor, Timberwolves were the worst defense in the league or close to that (statistically).