James Harden is a superstar

[tsherkin]

But I think he isn't shooting as well as he could either, and remaining a ~58-60% TS scorer on 20+ USG is quite possible for Harden in any role.

You'll note I've not disagreed with this, either.

bast, I haven't forgotten your post, I've got a couple of Thunder games from this season queued up, I've just been doing some other stuff. I'll get to it a little later, promise.

[CrazyB0y]

OKC fans have to calm down a little bit. Not even Manu is a superstar. How can a poor's man version of Manu be one ?

"25 PER and .270 WS48. superstar is not a hyperbole at all."

This numbers in a small sample don't mean much.

Wanna know Manu's numbers so far this season ?

35 PER / .389 WS48 / 77.6% TS . If Harden's numbers are superstar numbers, what can we say about Manu's numbers? megastar numbers?

ahahaha good post

some fans rally should calm down... if we passed 50% of the season you can call me again about that topic
right now: now, he's no superstar

[tsherkin]

FWIW, by the way bast:

Harden is 5/13 on those spot up plays and 2/5 on plays off of screens. He's 2/5 on 3s from hand-offs. Where he's really getting smoked is that he's 1/5 in transition, 0/4 as the handler in the pick-and-roll and he's 0/2 on 3s out of isolations.

That's this season, but what it points to is that generally when Harden gets his feet set, the three goes but if he's trying to take one without that chance, he's been quite ineffective, going 1/11 and thus contributing to his overall weak performance.

That trend is somewhat born out last year, though on higher overall percentages. He was clearly weakest on 3s taken in transition (12/49) and then his two best sets were off of screens (38.3%) and from hand-offs (41.7%). He shot 35.9% on 181 spot-up attempts.

He performed better from 3 in isolations last year, 14/38, or 36.8% and again evidenced one of his lower efficiencies as a 3pt shooter out of the pick-and-roll (14/43, 32.6%).

So there's some loose correlation between the basic ideas of this season and last year; he doesn't shoot as well in transition or in the PnR, at least from 3 and by far, transition plays are his most efficient plays (not that really that should be news or anything).

In any case, as I've never denied, he's an effective scorer (which is all I've been discussing, since his passing is obvious) out of the PnR. About the same this year as last. It still represents about a quarter of his possessions. Around as much, actually, as his spot-up opportunities (~ 2% more). Interestingly enough, in terms of volume of FGAs for Harden, last year it went 1) Spot-Up 2) Pick-and-Roll 3) Transition.

I imagine some of this distribution is due to the nature of his role; it'd be interesting to see what happened if the Thunder played Harden alongside Maynor, Durant and Ibaka more often, IMO, given how successful those lineups have been.

[turk3d]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA-HJvsadU8[/youtube]

New nickname for Harden: The Grim Reaper, lol.

[ComboGuardCity]

You guys are obviously using the term "superstar" too loosely. There are 8 superstars in this league:
1. Dwayne Wade
2. Kevin Durant
3. Lebron James
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Dwight Howard
6. Dirk
7. Rose
8.CP3

Its arguable that CP3 shouldn't even be on that list, but we can't forget what he did a couple years back before the injury.

Harden can't even sniff that list yet. Maybe in the future but sure as hell not now.

[tsherkin]

The first definitive issue is that Harden isn't a starter. It's less even than what I mentioned before; this season, at 32 mpg, he's playing not that much less or more than, say, Steve Nash or Dirk, but 34 mpg is kind of the bottom-end of where they were in their superstar seasons.

The talent is there, though. The off-ball movement is there, the handles are there, the shot is mostly there, the understanding is there... Harden has a complete game. But "superstar" is CLEARLY premature.

[BobbyBuckets]

You need to be an AllStar before being dubbed a SuperStar. You just can't make a jump like that.

[Effigy]

I've been wondering recently if OKC keeps Harden on the bench to keep his salary demands down when it's time to re-up. No way they can afford to give out 3 max deals, so they're probably hoping they can pay him less since he comes off the bench.

[ahonui06]

James Harden is not a superstar.

/thread

[SideshowBob]

Bump

Harden with 23 on 87% TS in 26 minutes. He's at 17.8 points per game on 67.7% TS in 31.3 minutes per game through 8 games now.

[fallacy]

James Harden - 17.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.1 apg, 67.7 ts%, 24.6 PER, 134 OffRtg


Highest PER, ts%, and OffRtg on the Thunder


He may not be a superstar, but my god...



Oh BTW, the 6th man of the year is a formality at this point. Harden has it locked up baring injury.

[dream_catcher_9]

Bump

Harden with 23 on 87% TS in 26 minutes. He's at 17.8 points per game on 67.7% TS in 31.3 minutes per game through 8 games now.

His decision making on the Pick and Roll is incredible. The only way you can slow him down is being fundamentally sound defensively without reaching, as well as having a good shot blocker in the paint.


I wish for just one game we play Harden all 48 minutes and have the team run nothing but Harden pick and rolls, I wonder how many points OKC could put up.

[Rapcity_11]

I think the next question to ask is what's wrong with Scott Brooks?

[TheHartBreakKid]

Not saying they should do this, or will do this, or that it makes sense for them to do. But a westbrook for gasol (or maybe even a healthy Randolph) trade for the Thunder makes them better THIS season. Simply cause it lets their best decision maker become the primary ball handler, and gives them the only thing their missing which is a post presence offensively. Again, obviously the Thunder won't/shouldn't trade. My whole point is really a testemat to Harden's ability more than anything.

[kasino]

I don't think superstar fringe all-star
18-22 ppg
personally I think if OKC had pass first 20/10 pg like Deron, Harden and the entire team would be better for it.

[Blame Rasho]

People throw around the word superstar out way too often, but he has an inpact of legit star. He is a difference maker in the same vain as Manu Ginobili. I rather have him for 30 mins than 35 or 40 mins of some of comparable draft peers like Evans and such.

An underrated ability that most star players don't have is that they sometimes don't know when they aren't being effective at something, but superstar players have that ability.

I really like the comparison to Manu(who is a star but I think has a bigger inpact than his a "star" label) because of that, because even if he has having a bad shooting or handling the ball, he makes it a point to make up for it on the other end of the floor or doing the opposite thing on offense, i.e be a facilitator or be a scorer.

Get me?

[Krodis]

After last night's game, he's up to 25.9 PER, good for 8th. But PER values volume scoring very highly. He's actually 4th in Win Shares, 2nd in Offensive Win Shares, and 2nd in Win Shares/48.

Don't think I need to tell you who's first.

[Doctor MJ]

James Harden - 17.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.1 apg, 67.7 ts%, 24.6 PER, 134 OffRtg

Highest PER, ts%, and OffRtg on the Thunder

He may not be a superstar, but my god...

Oh BTW, the 6th man of the year is a formality at this point. Harden has it locked up baring injury.

Well, the one thing is that it seems pretty unlikely that that efficiency will keep up, and then the eye popping advanced stats will come back to earth a bit.

[Doctor MJ]

You need to be an AllStar before being dubbed a SuperStar. You just can't make a jump like that.

Well, you can. Kevin Durant did. Certainly though it's premature to say Harden's done something like that.

I will say though that in terms of Harden making all-star, odds seem pretty damn good right now. In this shortened season, all-stars will be picked soon, the Thunder are begging to have at least 2 all-stars, and Westbrook's drop off is so severe, it's hard to imagine him getting the nod.

[Krodis]

Yeah I would hardly expect 67.7% TS% to hold up. It would be unprecedented for a perimeter player at his volume of scoring.