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questionmark wrote:Timmy was a beast that year. Absolutely. But Parker was good that year. Of course not anywhere near his prime, but he was good nontheless. And Duncan had bad games as well and was abled to rely on his teammates like in Game 6 of the WCF where Stephen Jackson has a great game and combined with a great bench performance they beat the Nowitzki-less Mavs. So its not like he didn't have any help at all.

That doesn't change the fact that to me, this Spurs team was the most carried team to ever win a championship, just ahead of last years Mavericks and the 94 Rockets. This kind of achievement, to carry a team to a championship, that they shouldn't have been abled to even compete for, is something that really pushes those three ahead of those players they compared with in all-time discussions.

mysticbb wrote:

Balki-B wrote:Although Barkely and Malone are statistically in the discussion, they are also both automatically disqualified because they've never won a ring.

Swap Malone or Barkley with McHale. Do you think the Celtics would have won even one championship less with either Karl Malone or Charles Barkley instead of McHale on the team? I would argue that they would have been improved with such a move. And that's what should be evaluated when we are talking about players, not some rings someone won, because the circumstances were good for him. Brian Cardinal did not become a better player, only because he now has won a championship. Neither did Dirk Nowitzki or Jason Kidd.

Karl Malone played great basketball, had a huge impact even really late in his career. Charles Barkley was probably the best offensive power forward ever, that should count for something. Look at how they played basketball and how much of an impact the individual players had on that, not at championships won.

Imagine Nowitzki suffers more than just a minor injury to his finger in the first game of the finals last year, imagine he had suffered a broken wrist and would have been out. No championship for the Mavericks. What would be the argument here? Would Nowitzki now be a worse player? The logic behind the "ring argument" is completely absurd, given the fact that it is influenced by circumstances a lot. Putting someone like McHale ahead of Barkley or Malone, because McHale won some rings as a 2nd/3rd fiddle is just wrong.

Spottieottie wrote:Malone would have punished any front line he faced last year in the playoffs. Let's see Dirk beat Michael Jordan for a championship... Lol

C-izMe wrote:

questionmark wrote:Timmy was a beast that year. Absolutely. But Parker was good that year. Of course not anywhere near his prime, but he was good nontheless. And Duncan had bad games as well and was abled to rely on his teammates like in Game 6 of the WCF where Stephen Jackson has a great game and combined with a great bench performance they beat the Nowitzki-less Mavs. So its not like he didn't have any help at all.

That doesn't change the fact that to me, this Spurs team was the most carried team to ever win a championship, just ahead of last years Mavericks and the 94 Rockets. This kind of achievement, to carry a team to a championship, that they shouldn't have been abled to even compete for, is something that really pushes those three ahead of those players they compared with in all-time discussions.

I have the most impressive wins ranked Barry, Olajuwon, Duncan, Dirk.

Stick88 wrote:

Spottieottie wrote:Malone would have punished any front line he faced last year in the playoffs. Let's see Dirk beat Michael Jordan for a championship... Lol

Debating rather Malone could have or haven't is a moot point because we will never know the answer to that. What we do know is that Dirk went through LMA, Kobe, KD, and the 3 Miami Heat to win the championship, so that's all the matters. Dirk won a ring, Malone never did.

Stick88 wrote:I would love to see Dirk have a teammate as good as the other PFs you guys have mentioned had. Dirk's best teammate through out the years has been Jason freaking Terry. Debating about who's better between KG and Dirk, well to put it simple, KG has lost more head to head battles against Dirk and Dirk won it all as the main guy, so I put Dirk ahead of him. And since people are determined by how many rings they have won, Dirk should be ahead of Malone and Barkley. There's a good argument for any of those guys to be tops, but you can't discredit what Dirk has done throughout the years especially now that he has a ring. Without question though, Timmy is the greatest of all time.

JordansBulls wrote:http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7666048/nba-trade-value-part-2

10. Dirk Nowitzki


I can't remember another NBA superstar having his personality transformed by an NBA title; if it happened with, say, Hakeem Olajuwon, I don't remember reading about it. Dirk's next few years will be interesting for historical purposes: In my basketball book, I ranked Bird, Duncan, Havlicek, Baylor, Erving, Pettit, Malone and Barkley as the greatest forwards of all time (in that order). Dirk already leapfrogged the last three; he's about to jump the next three; and if that happens, suddenly he's one of the best 12 or 13 players of all time by any calculation. He's also the greatest international basketball player ever — and actually, you could argue that the distance between Dirk and the next best foreign guy (Gasol, Ginobili) is more like a chasm.

Meaning only Duncan is considered better now according to Simmons.

questionmark wrote:Timmy was a beast that year. Absolutely. But Parker was good that year. Of course not anywhere near his prime, but he was good nontheless. And Duncan had bad games as well and was abled to rely on his teammates like in Game 6 of the WCF where Stephen Jackson has a great game and combined with a great bench performance they beat the Nowitzki-less Mavs. So its not like he didn't have any help at all.

Mr Grant Hill wrote:Dirk american, college, black = Top12
Dirk german, white = Top 25

face it

dice wrote:

Mr Grant Hill wrote:Dirk american, college, black = Top12
Dirk german, white = Top 25

face it

grant hill is the last person i expect to hear this from

Sik Infant wrote:

dice wrote:

Mr Grant Hill wrote:Dirk american, college, black = Top12
Dirk german, white = Top 25

face it

grant hill is the last person i expect to hear this from

It is true though.

Spottieottie wrote:

Stick88 wrote:

Spottieottie wrote:Malone would have punished any front line he faced last year in the playoffs. Let's see Dirk beat Michael Jordan for a championship... Lol

Debating rather Malone could have or haven't is a moot point because we will never know the answer to that. What we do know is that Dirk went through LMA, Kobe, KD, and the 3 Miami Heat to win the championship, so that's all the matters. Dirk won a ring, Malone never did.

Why is that all that matters? Why shouldn't we attempt more in depth analysis when attempting to compare apples and oranges and declaring ultimate, finite declarations of superiority?