Re: RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:40 pm
BTW, Kidd is extremely underrated. Looking through his RAPM data from 02-08, and he is not this offensive liability that people think. And the whole "PGs don't affect defenses that much" doesn't apply to him.
His RAPM from 02-08 (I'm guessing there's rounding error, because the offense+defense doesn't exactly add up to the overall in some cases):
02: +2.5 (+1.6 offense, +0.9 defense) - 4th overall
03: +3.8 (+2.3 offense, +1.6 defense) - 7th overall
04: +4.2 (+2.0 offense, +2.2 defense) - 7th overall
05: +4.8 (+3.0 offense, +1.8 defense) - 6th overall
06: +3.6 (+3.3 offense, +0.3 defense) - 17th overall
07: +3.8 (+4.1 offense, -0.2 defense) - 17th overall
08: +3.0 (+1.7 offense, +1.3 defense) - 25th overall
You can see that he was easily top 10 and usually around top 5 from 02-05, and when he fell off in 06 and 07, it was mainly because his defense suffered (his offense was arguably better, because of his improving outside shot)...his defense shot up again in 08 (averaged over 8 rpg with the Nets that year), and his offense suffered (reduced role in Dallas, and he shot like crap with the Nets).
And 04-08 was post-microfracture surgery Kidd, who suffered a decline in his explosion and his quickness. Still an elite player, and I still consider 04-07 to be a part of his prime, but he may have been even better earlier in his career.
Anyway, I think he's being seriously overlooked. I'm not sure I'd take Pierce over him anymore, from a peak or career perspective. Kidd was always considered the better player, which is supported by RAPM from 02-06, and by box score comparisons.
His RAPM from 02-08 (I'm guessing there's rounding error, because the offense+defense doesn't exactly add up to the overall in some cases):
02: +2.5 (+1.6 offense, +0.9 defense) - 4th overall
03: +3.8 (+2.3 offense, +1.6 defense) - 7th overall
04: +4.2 (+2.0 offense, +2.2 defense) - 7th overall
05: +4.8 (+3.0 offense, +1.8 defense) - 6th overall
06: +3.6 (+3.3 offense, +0.3 defense) - 17th overall
07: +3.8 (+4.1 offense, -0.2 defense) - 17th overall
08: +3.0 (+1.7 offense, +1.3 defense) - 25th overall
You can see that he was easily top 10 and usually around top 5 from 02-05, and when he fell off in 06 and 07, it was mainly because his defense suffered (his offense was arguably better, because of his improving outside shot)...his defense shot up again in 08 (averaged over 8 rpg with the Nets that year), and his offense suffered (reduced role in Dallas, and he shot like crap with the Nets).
And 04-08 was post-microfracture surgery Kidd, who suffered a decline in his explosion and his quickness. Still an elite player, and I still consider 04-07 to be a part of his prime, but he may have been even better earlier in his career.
Anyway, I think he's being seriously overlooked. I'm not sure I'd take Pierce over him anymore, from a peak or career perspective. Kidd was always considered the better player, which is supported by RAPM from 02-06, and by box score comparisons.