RealGM 50 Highest Peaks Project Thread

[MacGill]

But that's exactly my point for Kareem. You say Malone was a top 5 player for 13 years, one can argue Kareem was THE best player from '70-'80 (maybe except for '75 and '76), and then a top 5-6 player until '85, (heck, he was no. 3 in RPOY voting in '85 at the age of 38).

And if you want to talk about non-center competition as well, then Kareem's is just as good as Malone's if not better (assuming that '86 was the last year Kareem was a top 10 player): Wilt (4 years), Gilmore (4), Unseld (4), Walton (2), Moses (7), Doc (6-7), Bird (7), Magic (7) (assuming that we're talking about his competition in the best player in the league discussion and not on the court), Gervin (5-6), Moncrief (4-5), early Barkley, Hakeem and Jordan, and West (3).

Right...but that's why people have Kareem top-3 and I'm the only guy outside of Utah with Malone top-10. But you're also making MacGill's point: If you look at 88-00 for Malone -- not JUST longevity, but the sustained quality of the longevity -- it's really only matched by Kareem 70-82, with both players having other relevant seasons outside their primes. He said he's "more impressed" by Karl, but I assume that doesn't mean he's ranking him over Cap.

Simply that you have to go through such loopholes to mention post-prime players very much makes his point about competition. The 70's was lighter on elite players compared to the 90's...I'm surprised you disagree with this. As for your statement about post-prime Kareem, I have him 7th in 1984 and 8th in 1985 and think you should consider the context of the people who voted him 3rd in the RPOY project and the emphasis on the FInals series there -- I personally wouldn't take 85 Kareem over any year from 87-01 Malone, save for specific circumstances, which again speaks to Ardee's point.

Yes, I do not rank Malone over KAJ.

[ardee]

Right...but that's why people have Kareem top-3 and I'm the only guy outside of Utah with Malone top-10.

You rank Malone in the top 10? Interesting. I'm guessing that means you have him over Garnett unless you're throwing both Kobe as well as Wilt out haha. Haven't seen a list from you since the Top 100 project, what does your top 15-20 look like ElGee?

[Doctor MJ]

Hey y'all,

People see extremely distracted right now. I'm guessing that the fact that the NBA season has started has something to do with it. Currently planning to continue the project as is, but I'm open to suggestion.

Longer time for threads?

Take a little bit of a break?

Let me know your thoughts.

[DavidStern]

I see only two solutions:
1. end project and name it "top 35 peaks"
2. every panel member will send to you (or some volunteer) his list of 15 players peaks in order and we will count (15 pts for 1st place, 14 for 2nd and so on). That way we will have at least finished list. Of course no discussion, but honestly, there's not many discussion in recent thread ;/

[ardee]

I see only two solutions:
1. end project and name it "top 35 peaks"
2. every panel member will send to you (or some volunteer) his list of 15 players peaks in order and we will count (15 pts for 1st place, 14 for 2nd and so on). That way we will have at least finished list. Of course no discussion, but honestly, there's not many discussion in recent thread ;/

I would think we could take a break and regroup after a week, but if the project really is going no ware according to everyone, the second option is definitely better.

[penbeast0]

Sort of surprised to see Cowens make the top 35; he was like Chauncey Billups in the early 2000s, the team leader and a very good player but it was a huge upset when he outplayed Kareem or even held him to a draw.

I'm not in the project but seriously . . . ahead of Pettit's championship season? A bit surprised. Wouldn't surprise me that contemporary Artis Gilmore ranked ahead of Cowens 73 too, at least his 75 season.

[colts18]

How about ending the project at top 40.

Have a 1 week break with a thread where we discuss upcoming candidates and nominate like 10 or so, then in each thread we choose from those nominations which player we want.

[Doctor MJ]

Sort of surprised to see Cowens make the top 35; he was like Chauncey Billups in the early 2000s, the team leader and a very good player but it was a huge upset when he outplayed Kareem or even held him to a draw.

I'm not in the project but seriously . . . ahead of Pettit's championship season? A bit surprised. Wouldn't surprise me that contemporary Artis Gilmore ranked ahead of Cowens 73 too, at least his 75 season.

beast, note my post from last night. We're really struggling to get participation right now. Until that gets better, it goes without saying that the results might not look so great.

[Dr Positivity]

I vote for ending the project at 35 or 40

[Doctor MJ]

I'll add one more note:

If we seriously consider ending this early, when I already made it a point up front to chop the project in half compared to what we normally do, what is the problem?

[penbeast0]

Sort of surprised to see Cowens make the top 35; he was like Chauncey Billups in the early 2000s, the team leader and a very good player but it was a huge upset when he outplayed Kareem or even held him to a draw.

I'm not in the project but seriously . . . ahead of Pettit's championship season? A bit surprised. Wouldn't surprise me that contemporary Artis Gilmore ranked ahead of Cowens 73 too, at least his 75 season.

beast, note my post from last night. We're really struggling to get participation right now. Until that gets better, it goes without saying that the results might not look so great.

I saw it, I was trying to generate some of that discussion you were looking for.

[Dr Positivity]

I'll add one more note:

If we seriously consider ending this early, when I already made it a point up front to chop the project in half compared to what we normally do, what is the problem?

Very small voting pool missing many of the key posters of the best top 100 and RPOY threads

[fatal9]

For me, it's more of a not enough time to process everyone who should get talked about. My interest is still there for sure. As you get deeper and deeper into these lists, there end up being more and more guys who are on the same level so it becomes harder to separate them. I was pushing back my vote because I was undecided (I'm fine with Cowens getting in btw, I just would have picked a different year) but then forgot about the deadline completely. Maybe move it to 1 week per thread for a bit? It gives time to lay out arguments for everyone (the wings, the centers and the PGs who haven't even really been discussed yet). I'm guessing it can't hurt, especially with NBA season serving as a distraction now.

[bastillon]

yup, not enough time for discussion, top40 finish

[ardee]

Unrelated to the current discussion, question directed to colts18:

How did you calculate standard deviation for MOV in the 11th highest peak thread? You said you were calculating it w.r.t. the mean of the other teams. Does that mean you calculate the average MOV of the other 29 teams, calculate out the variance of team 1's MOV w.r.t. the mean and then find out the standard deviation via square root?