Deron Williams vs. Rajon Rondo

[jeff1624]

Deron has been a better playoff performer throughout his career.... People should really stop using rondo's last playoff run as some barometer when comparing the two considering the fact that it doesn't even trump Deron's best playoff run.

Deron in 09-10: 24 ppg, 10 apg, 61.4 TS% and a 23.5 PER

Rondo last season: m 17 ppg, 13 apg, 50.5 ts% and a 22.0 PER



As for this year, Rondo has been the better player but that's because of his astronomical (for him a least) TS% that I doubt he holds up the rest of the way, ditto for Deron's struggles.

[StojkoVrankovic]

Deron has been a better playoff performer throughout his career.... People should really stop using rondo's last playoff run as some barometer when comparing the two considering the fact that it doesn't even trump Deron's best playoff run.

Deron in 09-10: 24 ppg, 10 apg, 61.4 TS% and a 23.5 PER

Rondo last season: m 17 ppg, 13 apg, 50.5 ts% and a 22.0 PER



As for this year, Rondo has been the better player but that's because of his astronomical (for him a least) TS% that I doubt he holds up the rest of the way, ditto for Deron's struggles.

Do you really consider what DWill did against the Lakers that year a good series? Poor shooting all while getting swept?

You also left out some important stats from above, let me fix them for you....
Deron in 09-10: 24 ppg(45% FG/61.4 TS%), 10 apg, 2.7 rebounds, 1 steal

Rondo last season: 17 ppg(47% FG/50.5 TS%), 13 apg, 6.7 rebounds. 2.4 steal, great defense

Which is the barometer again?

[jeff1624]

Great Defense based on what? He didn't shutdown Teague, Holiday or Chalmers all who averaged their season totals or better. Was it the elite teams he played against aside from Miami? Because last I remember he faced the Hawks in the first round, a sixers team that only made the second round because Rose and Noah were out for the Bulls.

Rondo had an excellent post season, but don't discredit Deron's who unluckily had to face the champion Lakers in the second round instead of a terrible sixers team that somehow took the celtics to 7 games. Deron had 2 really great games and two mediocre ones in that series, but was by far the best player on that utah team. That year Carlos Boozer, the second best player on that team, had a PER of 9.8 and his numbers were down across the board. It's not Deron's fault he didn't play with Garnett who had a PER of 20.5 and added elite defense in last years playoffs. Wesley Matthews, an undrafted rookie, was the third option on that team, rondo had Pierce. Despite having the superior team next to him and the fact that everyone game him at least 6 feet on defense, one would think that Rondo would have an easier time against opponent defenses and even then couldn't muster up a better playoff run than Deron.

[ahonui06]

Great Defense based on what? He didn't shutdown Teague, Holiday or Chalmers all who averaged their season totals or better. Was it the elite teams he played against aside from Miami? Because last I remember he faced the Hawks in the first round, a sixers team that only made the second round because Rose and Noah were out for the Bulls.

Rondo had an excellent post season, but don't discredit Deron's who unluckily had to face the champion Lakers in the second round instead of a terrible sixers team that somehow took the celtics to 7 games. Deron had 2 really great games and two mediocre ones in that series, but was by far the best player on that utah team. That year Carlos Boozer, the second best player on that team, had a PER of 9.8 and his numbers were down across the board. It's not Deron's fault he didn't play with Garnett who had a PER of 20.5 and added elite defense in last years playoffs. Wesley Matthews, an undrafted rookie, was the third option on that team, rondo had Pierce. Despite having the superior team next to him and the fact that everyone game him at least 6 feet on defense, one would think that Rondo would have an easier time against opponent defenses and even then couldn't muster up a better playoff run than Deron.

Teague averaged 13-5-2 in the RS last year on 48-34-76 with 55 TS%
Teague averaged 14-4-4 in the PS last year on 41-41-90 with 52 TS%

Rondo's defense was a major cause for Teague shooting 7% worse in the playoffs. It took Teague an extra 2 shots to score 1 more point in the postseason

Holiday averaged 14-5-3 in the RS last year on 43-38-78 with 50 TS%
Holiday averaged 16-5-5 in the PS last year on 41-41-86 with 52 TS%

Holiday is actually a good player so he slightly raised his game in the playoffs, although his FG% did go down 2%. He was quite efficient considering the 76ers don't really have a go-to guy.

Chalmers averaged 10-4-3 in the RS last year on 45-39-79 with 58 TS%
Chalmers averaged 11-4-4 in the PS last year on 44-36-72 with 56 TS%

Chalmers remained around the same as well, but his game is moreso predicated on penetration from Wade and LeBron. Chalmers really doesn't create any offense on his own. He isprimarily a spot-up shooter on the Heat. Most of his shots are from wide open looks due to the attention given to the all-star wings.

[WhateverBro]

How the hell is Rondo leading the poll? Mind-boggling. The system Celtics are running is tailored around Rondo getting assists. It's not especially effective, as we've witnessed over the years but the system helps inflating Rondos assist numbers by ALOT. He, himself also finds ways to pad his assist numbers like passing up wide open drives to the basket for the assist etc.

He also gambles way too much defensively and literally gives up a wide open lane to the basket because of this. Deron would thrive on the Celtics and I wouldn't hesitate to have him there instead of Rajon Rondo.

What exactly are the arguments for Rondo? What does he do better?

[ahonui06]

How the hell is Rondo leading the poll? Mind-boggling. The system Celtics are running is tailored around Rondo getting assists. It's not especially effective, as we've witnessed over the years but the system helps inflating Rondos assist numbers by ALOT. He, himself also finds ways to pad his assist numbers like passing up wide open drives to the basket for the assist etc.

He also gambles way too much defensively and literally gives up a wide open lane to the basket because of this. Deron would thrive on the Celtics and I wouldn't hesitate to have him there instead of Rajon Rondo.

What exactly are the arguments for Rondo? What does he do better?

Rondo is shooting better this season, facilitating better this season, rebounding better this season, and has always been a better defensive player than Deron Williams. Rondo's leadership is also much more impressive than Deron Williams has ever been. I've never been impressed by Deron's abilities to lead a team in the postseason.

[WhateverBro]

How the hell is Rondo leading the poll? Mind-boggling. The system Celtics are running is tailored around Rondo getting assists. It's not especially effective, as we've witnessed over the years but the system helps inflating Rondos assist numbers by ALOT. He, himself also finds ways to pad his assist numbers like passing up wide open drives to the basket for the assist etc.

He also gambles way too much defensively and literally gives up a wide open lane to the basket because of this. Deron would thrive on the Celtics and I wouldn't hesitate to have him there instead of Rajon Rondo.

What exactly are the arguments for Rondo? What does he do better?

Rondo is shooting better this season, facilitating better this season, rebounding better this season, and has always been a better defensive player than Deron Williams. Rondo's leadership is also much more impressive than Deron Williams has ever been. I've never been impressed by Deron's abilities to lead a team in the postseason.

Ahh, "this season". It's been 16 games and that small of a sample-size doesn't prove that Rondo is a better shooter than Deron, he isn't. I wouldn't say he's facilitating better. More? Sure. But look at Bostons offense, every play is designed to get Rondo the assist. He's playing with strictly jump shooters and that makes it easier for him to get the assist. I'm not as impressed by his play as others it seems. It's easy to rack up big numbers (especially assists) if the whole offense is designed to get you those numbers and you actively try to pad your numbers.

[hokageinfamus]

Deron Williams by a lot. Rondo still has a lot of flaws in his game at the point guard position that really brings him down in my eyes. Leadership wise they're about the same Deron in his second year in the league was the catalyst to Utah's great postseason run.

[jeff1624]

Great Defense based on what? He didn't shutdown Teague, Holiday or Chalmers all who averaged their season totals or better. Was it the elite teams he played against aside from Miami? Because last I remember he faced the Hawks in the first round, a sixers team that only made the second round because Rose and Noah were out for the Bulls.

Rondo had an excellent post season, but don't discredit Deron's who unluckily had to face the champion Lakers in the second round instead of a terrible sixers team that somehow took the celtics to 7 games. Deron had 2 really great games and two mediocre ones in that series, but was by far the best player on that utah team. That year Carlos Boozer, the second best player on that team, had a PER of 9.8 and his numbers were down across the board. It's not Deron's fault he didn't play with Garnett who had a PER of 20.5 and added elite defense in last years playoffs. Wesley Matthews, an undrafted rookie, was the third option on that team, rondo had Pierce. Despite having the superior team next to him and the fact that everyone game him at least 6 feet on defense, one would think that Rondo would have an easier time against opponent defenses and even then couldn't muster up a better playoff run than Deron.

Teague averaged 13-5-2 in the RS last year on 48-34-76 with 55 TS%
Teague averaged 14-4-4 in the PS last year on 41-41-90 with 52 TS%

Rondo's defense was a major cause for Teague shooting 7% worse in the playoffs. It took Teague an extra 2 shots to score 1 more point in the postseason

Holiday averaged 14-5-3 in the RS last year on 43-38-78 with 50 TS%
Holiday averaged 16-5-5 in the PS last year on 41-41-86 with 52 TS%

Holiday is actually a good player so he slightly raised his game in the playoffs, although his FG% did go down 2%. He was quite efficient considering the 76ers don't really have a go-to guy.

Chalmers averaged 10-4-3 in the RS last year on 45-39-79 with 58 TS%
Chalmers averaged 11-4-4 in the PS last year on 44-36-72 with 56 TS%

Chalmers remained around the same as well, but his game is moreso predicated on penetration from Wade and LeBron. Chalmers really doesn't create any offense on his own. He isprimarily a spot-up shooter on the Heat. Most of his shots are from wide open looks due to the attention given to the all-star wings.

You didn't exactly disprove what I wrote. Those three players are (were in holiday's case) average players yet were still able to duplicate or improve their numbers in the playoffs against Rondo, which is weird because players tend to drop a little bit in the playoffs when the defense tightens up.

[actrived]

Deron Williams by a lot. Rondo still has a lot of flaws in his game at the point guard position that really brings him down in my eyes. Leadership wise they're about the same Deron in his second year in the league was the catalyst to Utah's great postseason run.

This should probably be the case for me...

But, I hate how DWill handled all the trade demands and the Utah situation so much. Because of that meaningless bias, I'd take Rondo.

Also, can't believe that so many people have said Rondo-Williams passing comparison is a wash. I still maintain that Rondo is a better passer by a sizable margin. But, hey, no perfect and quantifiable evidence either way.

[jeff1624]

What trade demands?

[ahonui06]

How the hell is Rondo leading the poll? Mind-boggling. The system Celtics are running is tailored around Rondo getting assists. It's not especially effective, as we've witnessed over the years but the system helps inflating Rondos assist numbers by ALOT. He, himself also finds ways to pad his assist numbers like passing up wide open drives to the basket for the assist etc.

He also gambles way too much defensively and literally gives up a wide open lane to the basket because of this. Deron would thrive on the Celtics and I wouldn't hesitate to have him there instead of Rajon Rondo.

What exactly are the arguments for Rondo? What does he do better?

Rondo is shooting better this season, facilitating better this season, rebounding better this season, and has always been a better defensive player than Deron Williams. Rondo's leadership is also much more impressive than Deron Williams has ever been. I've never been impressed by Deron's abilities to lead a team in the postseason.

Ahh, "this season". It's been 16 games and that small of a sample-size doesn't prove that Rondo is a better shooter than Deron, he isn't. I wouldn't say he's facilitating better. More? Sure. But look at Bostons offense, every play is designed to get Rondo the assist. He's playing with strictly jump shooters and that makes it easier for him to get the assist. I'm not as impressed by his play as others it seems. It's easy to rack up big numbers (especially assists) if the whole offense is designed to get you those numbers and you actively try to pad your numbers.

By that token, I assume you believe that Steve Nash is also a stat padder with no court vision since D'Antoni and Gentry catered their entire offenses towards him. Rondo delivers for the Boston offense on a nightly basis and also plays defense at a high level. He even averages 5 rebounds per game for the team.

[De8]

Deron Williams by a lot. Rondo still has a lot of flaws in his game at the point guard position that really brings him down in my eyes. Leadership wise they're about the same Deron in his second year in the league was the catalyst to Utah's great postseason run.

This should probably be the case for me...

But, I hate how DWill handled all the trade demands and the Utah situation so much. Because of that meaningless bias, I'd take Rondo.

Also, can't believe that so many people have said Rondo-Williams passing comparison is a wash. I still maintain that Rondo is a better passer by a sizable margin. But, hey, no perfect and quantifiable evidence either way.

what trade demands..

[StojkoVrankovic]

Ahh, "this season". It's been 16 games and that small of a sample-size doesn't prove that Rondo is a better shooter than Deron, he isn't. I wouldn't say he's facilitating better. More? Sure. But look at Bostons offense, every play is designed to get Rondo the assist. He's playing with strictly jump shooters and that makes it easier for him to get the assist. I'm not as impressed by his play as others it seems. It's easy to rack up big numbers (especially assists) if the whole offense is designed to get you those numbers and you actively try to pad your numbers.

So Rondo is not impressive, but DWill is? Try watching the games

[WhateverBro]

By that token, I assume you believe that Steve Nash is also a stat padder with no court vision since D'Antoni and Gentry catered their entire offenses towards him. Rondo delivers for the Boston offense on a nightly basis and also plays defense at a high level. He even averages 5 rebounds per game for the team.

When did I state that Rondo doesn't have court vision, lol?

There's a big, big difference in your comparasion to Nash. Yes, the system he played in Phoenix were built around him but the big dfference here is that the offense Nash anchored was top 2 offensively for six straight years. Compared to Rondo who has at best played in a top 6 offense and that was in 08-09 and most of the time an offense ran by Rondo is average / below average. Last year is when Rondo was really put in control of their offense and they responded by having 27th ranked offense in the league.

so yeah, I'm not as impressed by Rondo running the show as others are. The more Rondo dominates the assist numbers; the more stagnant the Celtics offense becomes.

[HelloBrooklyn]

By that token, I assume you believe that Steve Nash is also a stat padder with no court vision since D'Antoni and Gentry catered their entire offenses towards him. Rondo delivers for the Boston offense on a nightly basis and also plays defense at a high level. He even averages 5 rebounds per game for the team.

When did I state that Rondo doesn't have court vision, lol?

There's a big, big difference in your comparasion to Nash. Yes, the system he played in Phoenix were built around him but the big dfference here is that the offense Nash anchored was top 2 offensively for six straight years. Compared to Rondo who has at best played in a top 6 offense and that was in 08-09 and most of the time the offense ran by Rondo is avarage / below avarage. Last year is when Rondo really was put in control of their offense and they responded by having 27th ranked offense in the league.

so yeah, I'm not as impressed by Rondo running the show as others are. The more Rondo dominates the assist numbers; the more stagnant the Celtics offense becomes.

Not to mention

Rondo fascilitated a team that had a very strong offensive weapons. Where the percentage of the players making is even higher than Nash.

[WhateverBro]

Ahh, "this season". It's been 16 games and that small of a sample-size doesn't prove that Rondo is a better shooter than Deron, he isn't. I wouldn't say he's facilitating better. More? Sure. But look at Bostons offense, every play is designed to get Rondo the assist. He's playing with strictly jump shooters and that makes it easier for him to get the assist. I'm not as impressed by his play as others it seems. It's easy to rack up big numbers (especially assists) if the whole offense is designed to get you those numbers and you actively try to pad your numbers.

So Rondo is not impressive, but DWill is? Try watching the games

I've probably watched around 80 % of Celtics these last 5-6 years. I know my Rondo and I've seen enough of D-Will to know he's the better player.

[StojkoVrankovic]

Ahh, "this season". It's been 16 games and that small of a sample-size doesn't prove that Rondo is a better shooter than Deron, he isn't. I wouldn't say he's facilitating better. More? Sure. But look at Bostons offense, every play is designed to get Rondo the assist. He's playing with strictly jump shooters and that makes it easier for him to get the assist. I'm not as impressed by his play as others it seems. It's easy to rack up big numbers (especially assists) if the whole offense is designed to get you those numbers and you actively try to pad your numbers.

So Rondo is not impressive, but DWill is? Try watching the games

I've probably watched around 80 % of Celtics these last 5-6 years. I know my Rondo and I've seen enough of D-Will to know he's the better player.

You have not watched DWill in the last 2 season then if you asked what does Rondo do better than DWill.

[WhateverBro]

You have not watched DWill in the last 2 season then if you asked what does Rondo do better than DWill.

Tell me what Rondo does better then? I'd gladly like to know if I missed something in Rondos game.

[StojkoVrankovic]

You have not watched DWill in the last 2 season then if you asked what does Rondo do better than DWill.

Tell me what Rondo does better then? I'd gladly like to know if I missed something in Rondos game.

Rebounder, passer, playmaker, defender.