Deron Williams vs. Rajon Rondo

WhateverBro · Post #181 » by **WhateverBro** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:57 pm

StojkoVrankovic wrote:
WhateverBro wrote:
StojkoVrankovic wrote:You have not watched DWill in the last 2 season then if you asked what does Rondo do better than DWill.

Tell me what Rondo does better then? I'd gladly like to know if I missed something in Rondos game.

Rebounder, passer, playmaker, defender.

I'll give you rebounder. They're about as average defensively.

StojkoVrankovic · RIP texas celtic, 12/10/14 - 12/10/14

WhateverBro wrote:
I'll give you rebounder. They're about as average defensively.

Thanks for giving me the rebounder, DWill grabbing double digits boards in 1 game in his career must have made it close.

Rondo is a much better defender and has been among the best at his position since he stepped on the court his rookie season. DWill has taken entire years off on the defensive end. There is nothing close about them as defenders.

GetItDone · Post #183 » by **GetItDone** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:01 am

Switching my vote to D-Will.

I don't want the guy who passes up open layups to pad his assist numbers.

JordansBulls · Post #184 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Dec 4, 2012 2:44 pm

GetItDone wrote:Switching my vote to D-Will.

I don't want the guy who passes up open layups to pad his assist numbers.

Well he may do it because of the amount of scorers he has on his team in Boston.

Nowascki · Post #185 » by **Nowascki** » Tue Dec 4, 2012 3:13 pm

Utah's Deron>Rondo>NJ/Brooklyn's Deron

JordansBulls · Post #186 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Dec 4, 2012 8:36 pm

Nowascki wrote:Utah's Deron>Rondo>NJ/Brooklyn's Deron

That has to do with the system that Jerry Sloan ran in Utah and why Deron was a lot better at the time.

sunevisions · Post #187 » by **sunevisions** » Wed Dec 5, 2012 7:42 pm

D-Will get my Vote~~

D-Will games have so much offense weapon, Mid-Range Jumper, 3's, Low Post Scorer, Lay Up~~~ All D-Will can do~~
Rondo?? Lay Up and ??

D-Will can play any system any team~~ But I don't think Rondo can't take out in Boston System ( the reason why Celtics trade for Bass & Jeff Green)

D-Will & CP3 is clear the best 2 PG~~
Rose, Westbrook n Rondo right behind~~
then Nash & Parker ~~

ahonui06 · Post #188 » by **ahonui06** » Wed Dec 5, 2012 9:08 pm

sunevisions wrote:D-Will get my Vote~~

D-Will games have so much offense weapon, Mid-Range Jumper, 3's, Low Post Scorer, Lay Up~~~ All D-Will can do~~
Rondo?? Lay Up and ??

D-Will can play any system any team~~ But I don't think Rondo can't take out in Boston System ( the reason why Celtics trade for Bass & Jeff Green)

D-Will & CP3 is clear the best 2 PG~~
Rose, Westbrook n Rondo right behind~~
then Nash & Parker ~~

Rondo could play in any system as well. He is the ultimate facilitator and most importantly, extremely reliable in the postseason where players are really measured.

Rondo '12-'13: 13-13-5 on 51-32-61 with 54 TS% and 53 eFG%
Deron '12-'13: 16-9-3 on 39-30-83 with 52 TS% and 45 eFG%

You said Rondo isn't as much of an offensive weapon, but he is shooting 12% better from the field than Deron and even shooting the 3 ball at a better clip than Deron as well. Rondo is also more efficient than Deron as well. The only real shooting advantage that Deron has is FT shooting.

WhateverBro · Post #189 » by **WhateverBro** » Wed Dec 5, 2012 10:08 pm

ahonui06 wrote:Rondo could play in any system as well. He is the ultimate facilitator and most importantly, extremely reliable in the postseason where players are really measured.

Rondo '12-'13: 13-13-5 on 51-32-61 with 54 TS% and 53 eFG%
Deron '12-'13: 16-9-3 on 39-30-83 with 52 TS% and 45 eFG%

You said Rondo isn't as much of an offensive weapon, but he is shooting 12% better from the field than Deron and even shooting the 3 ball at a better clip than Deron as well. Rondo is also more efficient than Deron as well. The only real shooting advantage that Deron has is FT shooting.

Uhm, no. I disagree. Rondo would struggle in many systems simply because he isn't effective without the ball. He can't shoot so any system that has him not handling the ball a ridiculous amount would make him look worse. Maybe then he would start playing defense again like in 2008, who knows.

ahonui06 · Post #190 » by **ahonui06** » Wed Dec 5, 2012 10:16 pm

WhateverBro wrote:
ahonui06 wrote:Rondo could play in any system as well. He is the ultimate facilitator and most importantly, extremely reliable in the postseason where players are really measured.

Rondo '12-'13: 13-13-5 on 51-32-61 with 54 TS% and 53 eFG%
Deron '12-'13: 16-9-3 on 39-30-83 with 52 TS% and 45 eFG%

You said Rondo isn't as much of an offensive weapon, but he is shooting 12% better from the field than Deron and even shooting the 3 ball at a better clip than Deron as well. Rondo is also more efficient than Deron as well. The only real shooting advantage that Deron has is FT shooting.

Uhm, no. I disagree. Rondo would struggle in many systems simply because he isn't effective without the ball. He can't shoot so any system that has him not handling the ball a ridiculous amount would make him look worse. Maybe then he would start playing defense again like in 2008, who knows.

Most systems has the ball in the hands of the PG more than any other position which leads me to believe that Rondo could be successful in multiple offensive systems not just the Celtics system. Your earlier assertion that Rondo and Deron are equal as defenders is also ludicrous. Rondo has the capabilities to defend the perimeter at an elite level. Deron doesn't possess that type of ability. When Avery Bradley comes back, the Celtics will have the best defensive backcourt in the NBA.

bigboi · Post #191 » by **bigboi** » Wed Dec 5, 2012 10:26 pm

WhateverBro wrote:
ahonui06 wrote:Rondo could play in any system as well. He is the ultimate facilitator and most importantly, extremely reliable in the postseason where players are really measured.

Rondo '12-'13: 13-13-5 on 51-32-61 with 54 TS% and 53 eFG%
Deron '12-'13: 16-9-3 on 39-30-83 with 52 TS% and 45 eFG%

You said Rondo isn't as much of an offensive weapon, but he is shooting 12% better from the field than Deron and even shooting the 3 ball at a better clip than Deron as well. Rondo is also more efficient than Deron as well. The only real shooting advantage that Deron has is FT shooting.

Uhm, no. I disagree. Rondo would struggle in many systems simply because he isn't effective without the ball. He can't shoot so any system that has him not handling the ball a ridiculous amount would make him look worse. Maybe then he would start playing defense again like in 2008, who knows.

What are you saying right now? How many systems would honestly make Rondo an off the ball player if he was on the team? None. He would be the primary ball handler and he would be able to take pressure off the other players.

bball34 · Post #192 » by **bball34** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:45 pm

man Rondo sucks

OFWGKTA · Post #193 » by **OFWGKTA** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:32 am

man Williams sucks

beantownski · Post #194 » by **beantownski** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:27 am

the system talk is junk. if a player is good, they'll thrive in any system.

Doormatt · Post #195 » by **Doormatt** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:27 pm

The celtics offense isn't even above league average, yet rondo is apparently a top 3 point guard.

The logic is overwhelming.

Post #196 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:53 pm

Yes, Boston's offense isn't hot-awesome right now...

Remember that they're 8th in eFG% but 30th in ORB%, which affects their team ORTG and has nothing to do with Rondo. They're 5th in team FG%. Courtney Lee needs to stop sucking from beyond the arc, that would also help. Rondo's even scoring above league-average efficiency so far this season.

He's doing his part.

Krodis · Post #197 » by **Krodis** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:44 pm

They're also nothing special in terms of FT/FGA and TOV%, although they are better than they were last year. Both are things Rondo has some (although obviously not absolute) level of control over.

Even ignoring the offensive rebounding and making the assumption he has no control over that (which may not be ENTIRELY true. The Celtics do settle for a lot of shots that are unlikely to result in an offensive rebound. Still, he has little control over it on the whole), the Celtics are a pretty average offense all told.

Post #198 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:54 pm

Shot selection isn't on Rondo, Boston's offense is designed to get spot-up jumpers from 3, the elbow and the wing, that's systemic. Pierce and KG take tons of elbow Js out of post-ups and KG adds more popping off of screens.

Bertrob · Post #199 » by **Bertrob** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:28 pm

Doormatt wrote:The celtics offense isn't even above league average, yet rondo is apparently a top 3 point guard.

The logic is overwhelming.

Once again the myth arises!
Its this easy: The league’s most efficient offenses normally hit plenty of three-pointers and draw free throws at high rates. The Celtics do neither. Rondo has nothing to do with that (although he could try and get to the line more)

john248 · Post #200 » by **john248** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:30 pm

This is insane talk that Rondo cannot play in another system. He's a great passer and facilitator. He obviously can let plays play out and find the open man; ie run the offense. He doesn't need to be a good shooter to do that.

But the main difference between Rondo and Williams is simple. Rondo needs guys who can shoot and/or finish at the rim. He's is otherwise ineffective without them because his offensive game is just that. Deron has a better shot and more aggressive at penetrating to get open looks for other guys, so it is much easier to build around Deron than it is Rondo. Yea Rondo can play better defense and rebound, but I'd much rather have a PG who is much more offensive orientated unless said PG happens to be in a system like the triangle.

Deron or Rondo?