Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks

[GAME TIME]

Actually Wilt was playing much worse in playoffs than regular season.

Not really. Most of his playoff games are post 1966. Meaning his high scoring days didn't see a lot of time in the playoffs. however, yes, his scoring average did decline even in those years, but this is because defenses tightened up, they defended Wilt with 3-4 players, and Wilt's minutes did not increase in the playoffs like they do with other players. So this notion that he didn't perform as well in the playoffs is not true at all.

very good points.

I would also like to add that Wilt was an 11 time rebounding champion and Shaq was donut. For some labeling him the most dominant ever, you would think with his size and athleticism, he could as least lead the league in rebounding just once and make the 1st team defensive team at least once in his career.

Wilt 7 time scoring champ
Wilt 11 time rebounding champ
Wilt 2 time defensive team (1st team)
Wilt 4 mvps > Shaq 1mvp


Wilt is on another galaxy compared to Shaq numbers. Wilt dominated the game in a vastly superior way, just not in scoring, but rebounds, blocks, assists, defense etc.. and scoring was Shaq's thing and Wilt was still better than him.

[Raaccoonn]

I would also like to add that Wilt was an 11 time rebounding champion and Shaq was donut. For some labeling him the most dominant ever, you would think with his size and athleticism, he could as least lead the league in rebounding just once and make the 1st team defensive team at least once in his career.

Shaq is #3 All-Time in playoff rebounds behind only Wilt and Russell and is also #3 in playoff TRB% when compared to the other Top 5 GOAT C's.

Wilt 4 mvps > Shaq 1mvp

Everyone knows Shaq got robbed of multiple MVP's and either way.

Career MVP Shares
---------
Shaq : 7th
Wilt : 9th

Wilt is on another galaxy compared to Shaq numbers. Wilt dominated the game in a vastly superior way, just not in scoring, but rebounds, blocks, assists, defense etc.. and scoring was Shaq's thing and Wilt was still better than him.

None of this is true unless you just ignorantly accept the raw numbers.
I don't know if you just don't understand the concept of pace or are purposely ignoring it so you can troll.

When adjusted for pace Shaq scored at higher volume and at a much more rapid pace while also being much more efficient and consistent.

Blocks weren't recorded so there is no need to speculate there.

Shaq was a vastly superior passer over his career (not even debatable).

Defensively they Peaked at a similar level but Shaq was more consistent in terms of his defensive impact over his career.
Wilt may have had the slightly better defensive Prime though.

Hard to say who was better in that regard but they aren't far apart.

The only thing Wilt was clearly better then O'neal at was rebounding.

[nolunch]

Actually Wilt was playing much worse in playoffs than regular season.

Not really. Most of his playoff games are post 1966. Meaning his high scoring days didn't see a lot of time in the playoffs. however, yes, his scoring average did decline even in those years, but this is because defenses tightened up, they defended Wilt with 3-4 players, and Wilt's minutes did not increase in the playoffs like they do with other players. So this notion that he didn't perform as well in the playoffs is not true at all.

It basically shows the real battles are in playoffs. Wilt cannot play at his superstar form as in regular season. Players like MJ and Shaq, they play even better with more intense games.

[nolunch]

Doesn't mean ****. Wilt averaged 30-20 for his career. If they recorded blocks that would have been near double digits as well.

In 60's NBA, 6'5 Elgin Baylor averaged 19.8 rpg in a season. As the best big man in that era, I'm not surprised that Wilt averaging 30 rpg.

[nolunch]

Not really. Most of his playoff games are post 1966. Meaning his high scoring days didn't see a lot of time in the playoffs. however, yes, his scoring average did decline even in those years, but this is because defenses tightened up, they defended Wilt with 3-4 players, and Wilt's minutes did not increase in the playoffs like they do with other players. So this notion that he didn't perform as well in the playoffs is not true at all.

very good points.

I would also like to add that Wilt was an 11 time rebounding champion and Shaq was donut. For some labeling him the most dominant ever, you would think with his size and athleticism, he could as least lead the league in rebounding just once and make the 1st team defensive team at least once in his career.

Wilt 7 time scoring champ
Wilt 11 time rebounding champ
Wilt 2 time defensive team (1st team)
Wilt 4 mvps > Shaq 1mvp


Wilt is on another galaxy compared to Shaq numbers. Wilt dominated the game in a vastly superior way, just not in scoring, but rebounds, blocks, assists, defense etc.. and scoring was Shaq's thing and Wilt was still better than him.

How many teams and centers in 60's NBA ? Shaq was not winning any rebounding champ in regular season, but atleast he was top 5. Actually Shaq won some in playoffs.

How come you only post the champs in regular season ? Don't you get any stats/information in playoffs between them ?

Wilt is not on another galaxy, he was on 60's NBA only. For scoring thing, how many shots are taken between them ?

[nolunch]

Shaq easily.

Most dominant player in NBA history and faced far better competition.

Most dominant player in history was MJ.

You must be joking. Scoring doesn't mean dominance.

[nolunch]

Shaq easily.

Most dominant player in NBA history and faced far better competition.

That is the most idiotic, bizarre and uninformed comment I have ever seen.

It's quite clear that Wilt's peak was '67, and Shaq's was '00.

The centers Shaq faced in the 2000 Playoff run: Vlade Divac, Luc Longley, a 36 year old Aryvadonis Sabonis, and Rik Smits.

The centers Wilt faced in the 1967 Playoff run: Jerry Lucas, Bill Russell and Nate Thurmond.

Shaq's series against the best defender of the lot (Sabonis): 26-12-4 on 55% TS. 18-9-5 in the closeout game.

Wilt's series against the best defender of the lot (Russell): 22-32-10 on 57% TS. 29-36-13 in the closeout game. 3 triple doubles in the series, 20-20 in every game. Against Bill Russell. Whom some call the greatest player to ever have lived.

Your comments are uninformed and disrespectful.

Wilt usualy scores 40+/50, how come it suddenly drops to 20+ in playoffs ? As I remember in 01 playoffs, Shaq averaged 5 more pts than regular season against DPOY Mutombo in NBA finals. How come great players not playing their best or playing better in more important time ?

[nolunch]

The only defender Wilt faced during the '67 run who I think could have had a chance of containing Shaq(with the right team defense, of course) was Nate Thurmond, who I think may very well have been the greatest individual post defender ever. But Thurmond himself said that he didn't think he could guard guys like Shaq and Yao. I'm not sure if he's being modest, but it does suggest what I've been saying, which is that match ups make the fight. And there's no greater example of that than Shaq.

You think Russell couldn't guard Shaq?

It depends whether Shaq has enough touches and shots. Like 2004 NBA finals, Kobe kept the ball and only gave Shaq 16 shots per game. So Shaq only averaged 26 ppg with almost 70 FG%.

[JordansBulls]

Actually Wilt was playing much worse in playoffs than regular season.

Not really. Most of his playoff games are post 1966. Meaning his high scoring days didn't see a lot of time in the playoffs. however, yes, his scoring average did decline even in those years, but this is because defenses tightened up, they defended Wilt with 3-4 players, and Wilt's minutes did not increase in the playoffs like they do with other players. So this notion that he didn't perform as well in the playoffs is not true at all.

very good points.

I would also like to add that Wilt was an 11 time rebounding champion and Shaq was donut. For some labeling him the most dominant ever, you would think with his size and athleticism, he could as least lead the league in rebounding just once and make the 1st team defensive team at least once in his career.

Wilt 7 time scoring champ
Wilt 11 time rebounding champ
Wilt 2 time defensive team (1st team)
Wilt 4 mvps > Shaq 1mvp


Wilt is on another galaxy compared to Shaq numbers. Wilt dominated the game in a vastly superior way, just not in scoring, but rebounds, blocks, assists, defense etc.. and scoring was Shaq's thing and Wilt was still better than him.

Good points here. So let's use a 5 year time frame or best 5 seasons what would Wilt's be vs what would Shaq's be?

[GreenHat]

Actually Wilt was playing much worse in playoffs than regular season.

Not really. Most of his playoff games are post 1966. Meaning his high scoring days didn't see a lot of time in the playoffs. however, yes, his scoring average did decline even in those years, but this is because defenses tightened up, they defended Wilt with 3-4 players, and Wilt's minutes did not increase in the playoffs like they do with other players. So this notion that he didn't perform as well in the playoffs is not true at all.

very good points.

I would also like to add that Wilt was an 11 time rebounding champion and Shaq was donut. For some labeling him the most dominant ever, you would think with his size and athleticism, he could as least lead the league in rebounding just once and make the 1st team defensive team at least once in his career.

Wilt 7 time scoring champ
Wilt 11 time rebounding champ
Wilt 2 time defensive team (1st team)
Wilt 4 mvps > Shaq 1mvp


Wilt is on another galaxy compared to Shaq numbers. Wilt dominated the game in a vastly superior way, just not in scoring, but rebounds, blocks, assists, defense etc.. and scoring was Shaq's thing and Wilt was still better than him.

Shaq's rebounding prime came at the same time as the greatest rebounder of all time Rodman (yes greater than Wilt or Russell). That's the only reason why he doesn't have any rebounding titles. Plus he was going up against a lot more players.

Shaq was a better scorer than Wilt. I hope you aren't so uninformed that you just use raw ppg?

[GreenHat]

Doesn't mean ****. Wilt averaged 30-20 for his career. If they recorded blocks that would have been near double digits as well.

Faster Pace. Much Less Opposing Defense. A lot more missed shots to rebound because the league was a lot more inefficient.

And no way would he average double digit blocks. We live in the information age now, no need to believe tall tales.

[GreenHat]

The only defender Wilt faced during the '67 run who I think could have had a chance of containing Shaq(with the right team defense, of course) was Nate Thurmond, who I think may very well have been the greatest individual post defender ever. But Thurmond himself said that he didn't think he could guard guys like Shaq and Yao. I'm not sure if he's being modest, but it does suggest what I've been saying, which is that match ups make the fight. And there's no greater example of that than Shaq.

You think Russell couldn't guard Shaq?

I don't think he could at all.

That wasn't Russell's strength as a defender and he never faced anyone like Shaq. Plus he wouldn't have the help defense that Shaq had to contend with if they meet in the 60s and Russell can't guard Shaq without fouling in Shaq's time.

I think Shaq would score fairly easily and efficiently on Russell and then Russell would claim he let him score as a tactic.

[therealbig3]

^Keep in mind that Hakeem and Robinson did as well of a job as you could on Shaq, and Russell was built extremely similarly to them, and was also a lot smarter on defense.

[QuantMisleads]

Shaq's rebounding prime came at the same time as the greatest rebounder of all time Rodman (yes greater than Wilt or Russell). That's the only reason why he doesn't have any rebounding titles. Plus he was going up against a lot more players.

Shaq was a better scorer than Wilt. I hope you aren't so uninformed that you just use raw ppg?

So let me get this straight. Even though Shaq's rebounding #'s were never that high, the reason he was never a great rebounder ie the best rebounder of his era is because there was always someone around better than him.

OK, got it.

Wilt was a better scorer than Shaq. In every imaginable way, other than the fact that he could have scored easier points that he deliberately chose not to. The only people who call others uninformed because they use the raw numbers (and other stats) are the ones who don't like those stats and prefer other ones, ones that are invented and are not actually real.

[QuantMisleads]

Doesn't mean ****. Wilt averaged 30-20 for his career. If they recorded blocks that would have been near double digits as well.

Faster Pace. Much Less Opposing Defense. A lot more missed shots to rebound because the league was a lot more inefficient.

And no way would he average double digit blocks. We live in the information age now, no need to believe tall tales.

If Wilt played today he'd average at least 5 blocks a game, and for those that actually watched the way he played should know this to be true. You're no expert on Wilt so I don't take any of your statements with a grain of salt, I simply know they're wrong without even having to read them.

Nobody today can play as long and as hard as Wilt did. The man simply never got tired.

Wilt was a center. He shot fadeaways in his younger days, and his patented finger rolls. Now tell me who today is going to do anything about either one of those shots? I'll tell you who: nobody.

[QuantMisleads]

The only defender Wilt faced during the '67 run who I think could have had a chance of containing Shaq(with the right team defense, of course) was Nate Thurmond, who I think may very well have been the greatest individual post defender ever. But Thurmond himself said that he didn't think he could guard guys like Shaq and Yao. I'm not sure if he's being modest, but it does suggest what I've been saying, which is that match ups make the fight. And there's no greater example of that than Shaq.

You think Russell couldn't guard Shaq?

I don't think he could at all.

That wasn't Russell's strength as a defender and he never faced anyone like Shaq. Plus he wouldn't have the help defense that Shaq had to contend with if they meet in the 60s and Russell can't guard Shaq without fouling in Shaq's time.

I think Shaq would score fairly easily and efficiently on Russell and then Russell would claim he let him score as a tactic.

To be honest, I don't think Russell could defend Shaq either (in the 90s or today) but this is mostly because the refs would simply allow Shaq to bowl people over, including Russell. In the 60s, however, Shaq would have fouled out after 1 quarter if the coach decided not to take him out of the ballgame. But if he played a little smarter, which I believe he would at least a little, then Russell would have trouble against him.

Wilt, on the other hand, was one of the best man defenders to ever exist. If Shaq went up against Wilt he would be destroyed, not even close, and this is because Wilt was much stronger than his body showed. He had an innate strength, almost like he could control the adrenaline in his body and simply direct it to do whatever he wanted to do. Pick up 500 lbs? no problem. He did it on multiple occasions and without a sweat. He picked players up 240-250 lb players with one hand and moved them around like they were coffee cups. There are multiple statements made by players that have said exactly this. Shaq didn't have strength in the same way Wilt did, talking about pushing people around is a different kind of strength. even if Shaq could push Wilt around (which I believe, yes, he would be able to do unless Wilt decided to pick him up or something) he would still have to deal with the Wilt Chamberlain who went after every shot and would block Shaq left and right. I think Shaq would be intimidated to Wilt to a degree that he had never been intimidated before.

[QuantMisleads]

by the way, the uninformed who are now coming in here and posting on either Wilt or Shaq are not allowed to post without addressing any of the points made earlier in the thread. If you can't comment on something that was already said, then get out. There's no point in wasting anyone's time by making unsubstantiated and BS claims.

[Raaccoonn]

If Wilt played today he'd average at least 5 blocks a game.

Doubtful. I am unsure he'd even average 3 unless he was put in the role of defensive specialist.

Nobody today can play as long and as hard as Wilt did. The man simply never got tired.

Agree with you on this but many players can easily handle playing 38-42mpg and its unlikely Wilt would play more then that in this era.

Wilt was a center. He shot fadeaways in his younger days, and his patented finger rolls. Now tell me who today is going to do anything about either one of those shots? I'll tell you who: nobody.

Finger rolls are basically layups so...
Better competition and better defensive schemes would force Wilt into relying much more on his fadeaways which weren't overly accurate or fluid.

So let me get this straight. Even though Shaq's rebounding #'s were never that high, the reason he was never a great rebounder ie the best rebounder of his era is because there was always someone around better than him.

Wilt is a better rebounder then Shaq.
However Shaq is still #3 in All-Time playoff rebounds and when comparing him to the Top 5 GOAT C's only Russell and Wilt are superior to him in terms of TRB%.
He was a great rebounder.

Wilt was a better scorer than Shaq. In every imaginable way

Yeah... only that when you (intelligently) adjust for pace you can see that Shaq scored at a much more rapid pace in most years compared to Wilt (superior volume) and was far more efficient.
Shaq was also an elite passer throughout his entire career not just in one or two season where he tried to stat pad assists.

Shaq had much more offensive skill then Wilt had incomparably better footwork in the post and better ball control/handles.

Only fools think Wilt was even close to Kareem or Shaq offensively.

[QuantMisleads]

Saying Shaq had better footwork than Wilt in his heyday, when we have almost no film from those high scoring days, is a joke.

Adjusting for pace is the biggest joke of a thing anyone could do. When you adjust for pace you're not adjusting for the way the game is played, it was a completely different league back then and it's impossible to do any sort of adjustments to make direct comparisons. The most you can do is simply state what each player did and make your own judgments. I don't make my judgments based on the raw score per say, I look at the person's athletic ability, height, etc etc etc. You pretend all this latter stuff doesn't exist and pretend that you can make valid comparisons by adjusting for pace, just like what a lot of other charlatans on this website and elsewhere regularly do.

Wilt went after every shot taken near the rim. If you doubt me go watch the film. ANY film.

[Brenice]

Quant, I am one to believe that Wilt would rely less on finger rolls and fadeaways and more on dunks in today's game. Do you agree or disagree? Why?