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Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks

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Post#166 Re: Wilt vs Shaq in their peak
Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:54 am by nolunch

GetItDone wrote:Shaq easily.

Most dominant player in NBA history and faced far better competition.


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Post#167 Re: Wilt vs Shaq in their peak
Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:16 pm by JordansBulls

nolunch wrote:
GetItDone wrote:Shaq easily.

Most dominant player in NBA history and faced far better competition.


How are you defining the word dominant here? Like most dominant statistically speaking or most dominant size speaking along with production?
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Post#168 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:37 pm by thizznation

here we go again...
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Post#169 Re: Wilt vs Shaq in their peak
Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:04 pm by GAME TIME

nolunch wrote:
GetItDone wrote:Shaq easily.

Most dominant player in NBA history and faced far better competition.



Shaq has been swept in the post season 5 times in his prime. 94, 95, 96, 98, and 99. That certaintly goes against him being so dominant. He wasn't as dominant as you think.

Stats don't lie, and Wilt clearly had more dominating stats than Shaq. I have Wilt winning this quite comfortably.
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Post#170 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:37 pm by Raaccoonn

GAME TIME wrote:Shaq has been swept in the post season 5 times in his prime. 94, 95, 96, 98, and 99. That certaintly goes against him being so dominant. He wasn't as dominant as you think.

Ignorant statement by a troll poster/account.

#1. Only one of those sweeps took place in the 1st round (94) and two of them took place in the Finals and WCFinals.

#2. Individual dominance means nothing in the context of a team sport.
Shaq was incredibly dominant in most of those series and usually the best or close second best player in them.
His supporting casts and coaches sucked or sucked in comparison to the opposition and that is the reason they lost or got swept it had nothing to do with some sort of failure or lack of dominance by O'neal.

For a nice comparison of legendary players that failed far worse then Shaq in their younger years you can note that Hakeem in his first 8 years lost five times in the first round and even failed to make the playoffs entirely the year before his Peak started.
Jordan also failed to get his team out of the first round in his first 3 years in the league.

Imo it's much worse to lose in the first round in 5 or 6 games then to get swept in the Finals or CNFinals.

Oh and Shaq ended up winning more titles as "the man" then any other player in league history sans Jordan and Russell.

So yeah... you're full of crap.

Stats don't like, and Wilt clearly had more dominating stats than Shaq. I have Wilt winning this quite comfortably.

Not really.
Adjusted for pace Shaq is better then Wilt statistically (in the playoffs) in pretty much every category except for rebounding.
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Post#171 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:09 am by Brenice

Does adjusting Shaq's stats for pace consider Wilt's superior conditioning?
The vast majority of fans who have watched the careers of not just Jordan, but Dr. J., Magic, Bird, Barkley, Mailman, Kobe, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, Wade, Durant, and LeBron think Jordan is GOAT.

Those who didn't...defend LeBron.
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Post#172 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:34 am by CBB_Fan

Raaccoonn wrote:I think its a fair argument to say that Shaq might have prolonged his dominance from the early 00's had he continued dedicating himself to fitness the way he did in 1998-2000 where he was really shredded physically and in amazing shape.

However Shaq still ended his career with a good 10-12 Super-Star level seasons.
Only Jordan, Kareem, Magic and Russell have a similar amount career wise.


Take into account the type of play Wilt Chamberlain went through, and you'll see he had more durability than Shaq. Wilt never played less than 42 minutes per game, and in one season averaged 48.5 MPG. Shaq never played more than 40 a game.

Also, aside from 1969-1970, Wilt Chamberlain never missed more than 10 games in a season, and in 11 seasons he missed 3 or less. Shaq can say that about 4 seasons, and in 13 seasons he played less than 70 games. So while Wilt only had 12 seasons of dominance to Shaq's 14-16, Wilt's seasons were FAR more stressful in terms of games/minutes played.

There is a reason Wilt Chamberlain played about 6000 more career minutes than Shaq, despite playing 5 less seasons.
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Post#173 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:37 pm by JordansBulls

Brenice wrote:Does adjusting Shaq's stats for pace consider Wilt's superior conditioning?

You mean can Shaq play 48 minutes a game for season like Wilt did?
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Post#174 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:46 pm by RayBan-Sematra

JordansBulls wrote:
Brenice wrote:Does adjusting Shaq's stats for pace consider Wilt's superior conditioning?

You mean can Shaq play 48 minutes a game for season like Wilt did?

Impossible to say but Shaq proved he could handle 38-42mpg during his Young & Prime years without any stamina issues.

I highly doubt Wilt would play more then 40-42mpg in this era so its kind of irrelevant honestly.
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Post#175 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:17 pm by QuantMisleads

RayBan-Sematra wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:
Brenice wrote:Does adjusting Shaq's stats for pace consider Wilt's superior conditioning?

You mean can Shaq play 48 minutes a game for season like Wilt did?

Impossible to say but Shaq proved he could handle 38-42mpg during his Young & Prime years without any stamina issues.

I highly doubt Wilt would play more then 40-42mpg in this era so its kind of irrelevant honestly.

The only thing that's kinda irrelevent is the scrap heap trash of an opinion I'm quoting above, in particular the last line.
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Post#176 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:18 pm by QuantMisleads

Brenice wrote:Does adjusting Shaq's stats for pace consider Wilt's superior conditioning?

No it doesn't. we're just to assume that every player will have the same conditioning whether they play 20 minutes or 100 minutes.
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Post#177 Re: Wilt vs Shaq in their peak
Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:36 pm by nolunch

GAME TIME wrote:
nolunch wrote:
GetItDone wrote:Shaq easily.

Most dominant player in NBA history and faced far better competition.



Shaq has been swept in the post season 5 times in his prime. 94, 95, 96, 98, and 99. That certaintly goes against him being so dominant. He wasn't as dominant as you think.

Stats don't lie, and Wilt clearly had more dominating stats than Shaq. I have Wilt winning this quite comfortably.


Actually Wilt was playing much worse in playoffs than regular season.
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Post#178 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:37 pm by nolunch

CBB_Fan wrote:
Raaccoonn wrote:I think its a fair argument to say that Shaq might have prolonged his dominance from the early 00's had he continued dedicating himself to fitness the way he did in 1998-2000 where he was really shredded physically and in amazing shape.

However Shaq still ended his career with a good 10-12 Super-Star level seasons.
Only Jordan, Kareem, Magic and Russell have a similar amount career wise.


Take into account the type of play Wilt Chamberlain went through, and you'll see he had more durability than Shaq. Wilt never played less than 42 minutes per game, and in one season averaged 48.5 MPG. Shaq never played more than 40 a game.

Also, aside from 1969-1970, Wilt Chamberlain never missed more than 10 games in a season, and in 11 seasons he missed 3 or less. Shaq can say that about 4 seasons, and in 13 seasons he played less than 70 games. So while Wilt only had 12 seasons of dominance to Shaq's 14-16, Wilt's seasons were FAR more stressful in terms of games/minutes played.

There is a reason Wilt Chamberlain played about 6000 more career minutes than Shaq, despite playing 5 less seasons.


Shaq holds a NBA record with 13 consecutive seasons with 20+ and 10+.
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Post#179 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:42 pm by QuantMisleads

Doesn't mean ****. Wilt averaged 30-20 for his career. If they recorded blocks that would have been near double digits as well.
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Post#180 Re: Wilt vs Shaq in their peak
Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:44 pm by QuantMisleads

nolunch wrote:
Actually Wilt was playing much worse in playoffs than regular season.

Not really. Most of his playoff games are post 1966. Meaning his high scoring days didn't see a lot of time in the playoffs. however, yes, his scoring average did decline even in those years, but this is because defenses tightened up, they defended Wilt with 3-4 players, and Wilt's minutes did not increase in the playoffs like they do with other players. So this notion that he didn't perform as well in the playoffs is not true at all.
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Post#181 Re: Wilt vs Shaq in their peak
Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:49 pm by GAME TIME

QuantMisleads wrote:
nolunch wrote:
Actually Wilt was playing much worse in playoffs than regular season.

Not really. Most of his playoff games are post 1966. Meaning his high scoring days didn't see a lot of time in the playoffs. however, yes, his scoring average did decline even in those years, but this is because defenses tightened up, they defended Wilt with 3-4 players, and Wilt's minutes did not increase in the playoffs like they do with other players. So this notion that he didn't perform as well in the playoffs is not true at all.


very good points.

I would also like to add that Wilt was an 11 time rebounding champion and Shaq was donut. For some labeling him the most dominant ever, you would think with his size and athleticism, he could as least lead the league in rebounding just once and make the 1st team defensive team at least once in his career.

Wilt 7 time scoring champ
Wilt 11 time rebounding champ
Wilt 2 time defensive team (1st team)
Wilt 4 mvps > Shaq 1mvp


Wilt is on another galaxy compared to Shaq numbers. Wilt dominated the game in a vastly superior way, just not in scoring, but rebounds, blocks, assists, defense etc.. and scoring was Shaq's thing and Wilt was still better than him.
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Post#182 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:16 am by Raaccoonn

GAME TIME wrote:I would also like to add that Wilt was an 11 time rebounding champion and Shaq was donut. For some labeling him the most dominant ever, you would think with his size and athleticism, he could as least lead the league in rebounding just once and make the 1st team defensive team at least once in his career.

Shaq is #3 All-Time in playoff rebounds behind only Wilt and Russell and is also #3 in playoff TRB% when compared to the other Top 5 GOAT C's.

Wilt 4 mvps > Shaq 1mvp

Everyone knows Shaq got robbed of multiple MVP's and either way.

Career MVP Shares
---------
Shaq : 7th
Wilt : 9th

Wilt is on another galaxy compared to Shaq numbers. Wilt dominated the game in a vastly superior way, just not in scoring, but rebounds, blocks, assists, defense etc.. and scoring was Shaq's thing and Wilt was still better than him.


None of this is true unless you just ignorantly accept the raw numbers.
I don't know if you just don't understand the concept of pace or are purposely ignoring it so you can troll.

When adjusted for pace Shaq scored at higher volume and at a much more rapid pace while also being much more efficient and consistent.

Blocks weren't recorded so there is no need to speculate there.

Shaq was a vastly superior passer over his career (not even debatable).

Defensively they Peaked at a similar level but Shaq was more consistent in terms of his defensive impact over his career.
Wilt may have had the slightly better defensive Prime though.

Hard to say who was better in that regard but they aren't far apart.

The only thing Wilt was clearly better then O'neal at was rebounding.
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Post#183 Re: Wilt vs Shaq in their peak
Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:16 am by nolunch

QuantMisleads wrote:
nolunch wrote:
Actually Wilt was playing much worse in playoffs than regular season.

Not really. Most of his playoff games are post 1966. Meaning his high scoring days didn't see a lot of time in the playoffs. however, yes, his scoring average did decline even in those years, but this is because defenses tightened up, they defended Wilt with 3-4 players, and Wilt's minutes did not increase in the playoffs like they do with other players. So this notion that he didn't perform as well in the playoffs is not true at all.


It basically shows the real battles are in playoffs. Wilt cannot play at his superstar form as in regular season. Players like MJ and Shaq, they play even better with more intense games.
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Post#184 Re: Wilt vs Shaq at their peaks
Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:27 am by nolunch

QuantMisleads wrote:Doesn't mean ****. Wilt averaged 30-20 for his career. If they recorded blocks that would have been near double digits as well.


In 60's NBA, 6'5 Elgin Baylor averaged 19.8 rpg in a season. As the best big man in that era, I'm not surprised that Wilt averaging 30 rpg.
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Post#185 Re: Wilt vs Shaq in their peak
Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:39 am by nolunch

GAME TIME wrote:
QuantMisleads wrote:Not really. Most of his playoff games are post 1966. Meaning his high scoring days didn't see a lot of time in the playoffs. however, yes, his scoring average did decline even in those years, but this is because defenses tightened up, they defended Wilt with 3-4 players, and Wilt's minutes did not increase in the playoffs like they do with other players. So this notion that he didn't perform as well in the playoffs is not true at all.


very good points.

I would also like to add that Wilt was an 11 time rebounding champion and Shaq was donut. For some labeling him the most dominant ever, you would think with his size and athleticism, he could as least lead the league in rebounding just once and make the 1st team defensive team at least once in his career.

Wilt 7 time scoring champ
Wilt 11 time rebounding champ
Wilt 2 time defensive team (1st team)
Wilt 4 mvps > Shaq 1mvp


Wilt is on another galaxy compared to Shaq numbers. Wilt dominated the game in a vastly superior way, just not in scoring, but rebounds, blocks, assists, defense etc.. and scoring was Shaq's thing and Wilt was still better than him.


How many teams and centers in 60's NBA ? Shaq was not winning any rebounding champ in regular season, but atleast he was top 5. Actually Shaq won some in playoffs.

How come you only post the champs in regular season ? Don't you get any stats/information in playoffs between them ?

Wilt is not on another galaxy, he was on 60's NBA only. For scoring thing, how many shots are taken between them ?
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