RealGM

I think Rodman would've had a chance in the top 50 but with 40 he has major issues. He literally refused to shoot at times (leading to blown possessions) and a lot of the times he over passed leading to a lot of turnovers. He also was Camby-like in that he gave up defensive position to get boards.


Wallace I personally saw his peak live (not on YouTube Pistons games). He was probably the worst offensive player I've seen get more than 30 minutes a game. Biedrins laughs at his offensive ability. He wasn't good at the rim, a the line, at passing, at shooting from anywhere, at making putbacks, and at times set sloppy screens. Defensively let's say he's a 7 out of 10. He loses 5 of the 7 on offense by itself. He really needs a strong offensive team around him to even be worth playing 36+ minutes a game. I couldn't see him getting top 50 (Rose is over him and Rose wasn't even in my mind yet).

So...what exactly is the argument against KJ here? Great offensive player who stepped it up in the playoffs. And especially since we're discussing other wings here, I don't see how defense could really tip the scales, because I don't think Hill or King are all that close offensively.

What's KJ's peak season? I think its somewhere between 89-92. 91 might have been his best regular season but he laid an egg in the playoffs. 92 was a better playoff than 90 but 90 had double the playoff games and a better regular season. 95 also has a case because he went off in the playoffs.

In 1990, the Suns had a 7+ SRS, good enough for 1st place in the NBA. Their O rating was 3rd in the league (D was 6th). They beat Magic Johnson's Lakers in the playoffs in a huge upset.

Here is the 1990 playoff breakdown

1st round vs. Utah (stockton):
KJ only played 9 minutes in game 1 so I'll look at games 2-5 (Stockton went 16 and 17 in that game)
KJ: 25-10-3, .497 TS%, 104 O rating
Stockton: 15-15-4, .484 TS%, 115 O rating

2nd round vs. Lakers (magic):
KJ: 22-12-6 (3 stls), .562 TS%, 118 O rating
Magic: 30-12-6, .616 TS%, 127 O rating

WCF vs. Blazers (Porter):
KJ: 22-11-2, .608 TS%, 119 O rating
Porter: 19-8-2, .610 TS%, 130 O rating

So KJ held his own offensively against those guys but his defense left something to be desired.

His 95 regular season wasn't great, but he stepped it up in the playoffs averaging 25-9-4, .663 TS%, 130 O rating. He killed the Rockets. He had games of 46-10 (game 7), 43-9-6, 28-8-8, 29-12, 21-13-5

Good question colts, I'll put my vote in but my mind is still open:

Vote: Kevin Johnson '90

I feel like '89 & '90 is basically a tossup, so I'm inclined to go with the slightly more seasoned year.

Regarding '95, the post-season numbers are huge, but this is a team that nearly won 60 games with KJ gone half the year, and then got upset in the playoffs focusing on his gifts. Not saying I blame him, but no, that's not a situation where I feel like ignoring time lost to injury.

Doctor MJ, what about 92 KJ?

I really don't separate 89-92 KJ really, so I'd have no problem going with 90 KJ if you feel strongly that it's superior to 92. But my reasoning for 92 was pretty much why you picked 90 over 89: he was a more seasoned player that was putting up comparable numbers.

Well, the Suns are best in '90 by regular season and go further in the playoffs than in '92. They also peak in offense in '89 & '90, and KJ's putting up bigger RS numbers in scoring & assisting (& advanced metrics) so it's hard to make the case that KJ in '92 is taking a clearly heavier load in the later year.

Ok, fair enough, I'm still not sure which year to pick, but I have no problem with 90 KJ.

Editing my original vote.

'92 Drexler: 1 (JordanBulls)
'00 Mourning: 2 (fatal9 and C-izMe) (he's gotten waived?! How?)
'84 Bernard: 3 (ardee, PTB Fan and Dr. Positvity)
'90 Johnson: 2 (Doctor MJ and therealbig3)

So King wins I think. Make the no. 37 thread Doc?

Okay, Bernard King '84 wins. We move on. Hopefully next thread will be better.